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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 19664 times)

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Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #195 on: February 22, 2020, 11:47:18 PM »
aros is a reimplementation, and not just of 3.1 (as you wrongly insist, just to make it look bad)

Actually it's the official AROS site that is "making it look bad":

http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/faq.php#why-are-you-only-aiming-for-compatibility-with-3-1

The pages on the official site are all just talking about 3.1, same as OlafS3 does. You seem to be the only one making ridiculous claims that it is suddenly better than OS4 and MorphOS. Even 3.1 is only 82% implemented, you can see it there at http://www.aros.org/introduction/status/everything.php
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:55:09 PM by Minuous »
 

Offline Tygre

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #196 on: February 23, 2020, 03:46:43 AM »
http://www.aros.org/documentation/users/faq.php#why-are-you-only-aiming-for-compatibility-with-3-1
http://www.aros.org/introduction/status/everything.php

Hi Minuous!

Thanks for pointing to these pages, very interesting 8)

The choice of AROS to consider only 3.1 is well explained on the first page and, amusingly, explains that "the discussions ended in either flame wars or reiteration of the arguments."... Same as here ;)

Cheers!

Offline giZmo350

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #197 on: February 23, 2020, 04:04:09 AM »
@Tygre

See what ya started here mate? Only you have the power to stop it!   8)
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Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #198 on: February 23, 2020, 09:20:58 AM »
@Minuous
Maybe you should take a class with professor Richter on the difference between implementations and interfaces.

OS 3.2 is also “lacking tons” compared to 3.1, stuff was removed, support was dropped, and 3.2 isn’t doing any better in this regard - how about we whine a little about that?
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guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #199 on: February 23, 2020, 09:57:19 AM »
The following quote from the AROS page is remarkable:

Quote
There have been discussions about writing an advanced OS with the features of the AmigaOS. This has been dropped for a good reason. First, everyone agreed that the current AmigaOS would have to be enhanced, but no one knew how to do that or even agreed on what had to be enhanced or what was important. For example, some wanted memory protection, but they disliked its cost (a major rewrite of the available software and speed decrease).

In the end, the discussions ended in either flame wars or reiteration of the arguments.
Thus, even the AROS folks admit that Open Source does not allow to advance the Os in the Amiga community. Somebody will have reasons to complain about something, and then all development is blocked. It is *exactly that* which makes Open Source for AmigaOs in this "community" undesirable.
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #200 on: February 23, 2020, 03:07:54 PM »
The following quote from the AROS page is remarkable:

Quote
There have been discussions about writing an advanced OS with the features of the AmigaOS. This has been dropped for a good reason. First, everyone agreed that the current AmigaOS would have to be enhanced, but no one knew how to do that or even agreed on what had to be enhanced or what was important. For example, some wanted memory protection, but they disliked its cost (a major rewrite of the available software and speed decrease).

In the end, the discussions ended in either flame wars or reiteration of the arguments.
Thus, even the AROS folks admit that Open Source does not allow to advance the Os in the Amiga community.
That’s not at all what the that text says - the topic in that text was whether creating a new OS was worth while or not, and if so, how. AROS has advanced and is improving steadily, especially on 68k now, the question is more about how “real” AmigaOS can remain relevant in the future.
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CD32/TF328
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A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 
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Offline mschulz

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #201 on: February 23, 2020, 03:20:23 PM »
Thus, even the AROS folks admit that Open Source does not allow to advance the Os in the Amiga community. Somebody will have reasons to complain about something, and then all development is blocked. It is *exactly that* which makes Open Source for AmigaOs in this "community" undesirable.

It is great to provide a tiny quote from ancient FAQ in order to support a false statement. The very text you quoted was added to AROS as initial commit on Aug, 30th, 2002. Since then AROS has advanced in many many places, exceeding the targeted OS 3.1 practically everywhere. AROS was the first one working on x86, AROS was the first one working on ARM. AROS was the first one on 64 bit platform, providing 64-bit kernel and 64-bit software. AROS was the first one exceeding the 2GB memory limit. Finally, AROS was the first one showing that at least some degree of SMP is possible on AmigaOS-like system. Yet, despite all the advancements that were made, it can be compiled for x86_64 or m68k from the very same source tree and the m68k version (advancing every day) remains compatible with legacy m68k software as much as possible.
 
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Offline SamuraiCrow

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #202 on: February 23, 2020, 03:36:42 PM »
Thanks for setting the record straight, Dr. Schulz.  Personally, I'm sick of the litigation Hyperion has brought to the community and am glad there are alternatives.

Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2020, 04:23:12 PM »
@SamuraiCrow:

Cloanto are the ones who have brought the litigation, so you should blame them instead.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 04:24:26 PM by Minuous »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #204 on: February 23, 2020, 04:36:21 PM »
It is great to provide a tiny quote from ancient FAQ in order to support a false statement. The very text you quoted was added to AROS as initial commit on Aug, 30th, 2002. Since then AROS has advanced in many many places, exceeding the targeted OS 3.1 practically everywhere.
So to ask, why is there only 3.1 compatibility then? Porting source code to another platform is one thing (which you cannot do with the AmigaOs sources for obvious reasons, but any properly written C sources), but extending the API another one. So, why is there no API extension desired beyond that of 3.1 if the above statement from the FAQ is false?
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #205 on: February 23, 2020, 05:02:38 PM »
if you would look in the API definition (autodocs) you would see that Aros is somewhere between 3.1 and other NG platforms implementing additional
 

Offline bison

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #206 on: February 23, 2020, 05:18:56 PM »
Cloanto are the ones who have brought the litigation, so you should blame them instead.
If someone tries to rob you and you resist, that doesn't make you the aggressor.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 05:32:17 PM by bison »
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner
 

Offline Tygre

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #207 on: February 23, 2020, 06:03:18 PM »
@Tygre

See what ya started here mate? Only you have the power to stop it!   8)

Hi giZmo350!

I wish I could ;D

Cheers!

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #208 on: February 23, 2020, 06:26:15 PM »
If someone tries to rob you and you resist, that doesn't make you the aggressor.
Excuse for being confused, but who is robbing whom here? Let me recapitulate: Hyperion and a couple of folks start creating Os 4, while Amiga Inc. is trying its luck with AmigaDE, a "me, too" product of Java, and fails, quite unsurprisingly.

Then Amiga Inc. claims that AmigaOs 4 is their property, after Amiga DE fails. Hyperion goes to court, against AmigaInc, Amiga Inc. goes bankrupt, transfering ownership to Amigo (or what's is name), renaming this enterprise again to Amiga. Then Amiga and Hyperion settle, creating the settlement agreement for ongoing development of AmigaOs. Then, Amiga Inc. sells again its "property" to Cloanto. So I really wonder who is the thief in all this epic novel. If you want to point fingers, Amiga Inc. seems to be a much more suitable target for that, having two victims.
 
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Offline Louis Dias

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #209 on: February 23, 2020, 07:27:10 PM »
Thanks Dr. M. Shutlz!

AROS is miles ahead (while not necessarily optimized) of OS 3.x and 4
Thor seems to think Owning OS 4.X licensing and marketing rights means you own 3.X … hence to court battle.

All Cloanto has done is keep Amiga alive by selling legal ROMs and paying for improvements to those ROMs and other system files over time.  Hence the 3.X OS designation...as in 3.10 because X=10 because it's an improvement over 3.9.

All Hyperion has done is keep the platform down in litigation and not pay developers.

I think someone has "battered abuser syndrome".
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 07:27:47 PM by Louis Dias »