Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: AmigaOS 68k development - components, critics, bugs, work-arounds, tips&tricks  (Read 17013 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Louis Dias

Most of 3.5 and 3.9 was re-licensed by Cloanto along with some *new* development that 3.1.4 claims is new but wasn't (large disk support) ... Hence Cloanto's OS is called 3.X aka 3.10 as in 10 > 9 as in OS X as in how Microsoft skipped Windows 9 and now the only version of windows they support is 10 aka X.

But I digress...

So - no!  3.5 and 3.9 is not lost thanks to 3.X from Cloanto.  I don't know why this is not known by the sheep...I mean masses...

https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-107
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/16-125
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/16-120
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:44:53 PM by Louis Dias »
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Quote
So - no!  3.5 and 3.9 is not lost thanks to 3.X from Cloanto.  I don't know why this is not known by the sheep...I mean masses...

Because there was no marketing, no clamour for it and no interest IMHO! OS3.9 seemed fine for most users though until OS3.1.4 gave the 3.1 loving purists some bug fixes.

Just for clarification is long filename support a function of the File System rather than the OS? FFS in OS3.9 doesn't seem to support more than 30 char filenames? A bit lame in this day and age!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 03:07:31 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline Louis Dias

Maybe my memory is bad but I thought FFS could have 255 length filenames...
 

Offline kolla

With DOS\7 it is 107 chars, before it was just 31 chars.
31 was limitation in filesystem, 107 is limit in dos.library, iirc.

In addition there is probably also a max limit for a total path to a file, but I don’t recall that one.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 04:26:02 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline nbache

@Louis Dias:

In OS4, DOS was changed to allow filenames with a length of 255, if the filesystem supports them.

In case that's what you were thinking of.

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline kolla

I split my user-startup into many files to ease maintaining and quicker enable/disable by renaming, so in S:Startup-Sequence...

Code: [Select]
If EXISTS S:User-Startup
  Execute S:User-Startup
EndIf

If EXISTS S:User-Startups
  List S:User-Startups ALL FILES P="#?-Startup" LFORMAT "Execute *"%p%n*" TO PIPE:U
  Sort FROM PIPE:U TO PIPE:U
  Execute PIPE:U
EndIf

(I avoid using piping with "|" in startup-sequence, it does NOT reliably work as intended when Execute is resident)

For example, I use NN_ as prefix on these startup-scripts, where NN is a number indicating the sequence of execution...

Code: [Select]
1.Minimig:> List S:User-Startup#? ALL FILES P="#?-Startup" LFORMAT "Execute *"%p%n*"" | Sort
Execute "S:User-Startups/20_REXX-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/50_RAM-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_AmiSSL-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_CygnusEd-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_IconLib-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_MUI-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_RapaGUI-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_Reaction-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_TTFLib-Startup"
Execute "S:User-Startups/80_UHC-Startup"
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 07:01:37 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline CMTX

Hello :) I am a happy os 3.1.4 user/customer. I think it is good stuff and improves over the old 3.1 in key areas. Looking forward to version 3.2!

With that said, there is one thing that bugs me when using this or any other flavour of classic amiga OS; the inability to use dual monitors with ecs/aga and a graphics card. When an rtg screen gets atention the ecs/aga screen dies, and afaik there is no patch or workaround for this. I don't know if this is something that has to be addressed on the Amiga OS side or on the P96 side, but if it's in your hands doing something PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do it :) There are thousands of Amiga users with gfx cards that would benefit :)

Cheers
 

Offline kolla

With that said, there is one thing that bugs me when using this or any other flavour of classic amiga OS; the inability to use dual monitors with ecs/aga and a graphics card. When an rtg screen gets atention the ecs/aga screen dies, and afaik there is no patch or workaround for this.
If you are using P96:
http://cd.textfiles.com/amigama/amigama199804/WWW/Picasso96/FAQ.html

Quote
Q: What Picasso96 ENV variables are there?
A: There are:
ENV:Picasso96/AmigaVideo: if set to 31kHz, the Amiga will be set to a MULTISCAN-like mode when Picasso96 screens are shown. This is necessary if you want to have a high audio sampling rate because the Amiga audio is coupled with the Display DMA. Only set this if you do not have a 15kHz monitor like the A1084 attached to the Amiga video port.
ENV:Picasso96/BlackSwitching: if set to "Yes", the display will be set to black when screen switches involve a memory transfer of the new screen to the board. This way it might look better. Use it as you like it.

If you are using CGfX4, there are other options - but I can tell you it works as my A3000 has at times been using 3 monitors at once, one on CVPPC, one of CV64 in addition to the native ECS screen.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 02:00:30 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Louis Dias

@ multiple screens...

Wouldn't it be nice if you could have an nice touchscreen menu on one screen and then the main app/game screen on the high-powered card?
Oh damn I think I just invented the Wii U...
 

Offline my_pc_is_amiga

In regards to P96 for classic, wondering 2 things when comparing to OS4.0:

1) OS4.0 has a CyberVisionPPC driver -- is this ppc native and if not would it work on 68k?  And wondering why P96 on 68k doesn't have driver if it was developed on OS4?

2) For the screen dragging in P96, this has probably been discussed but wondering what was done in OS4 to support screen dragging?   Was this an enhancement in the OS or P96 to enable that?
 

Offline nbache

In regards to P96 for classic, wondering 2 things when comparing to OS4.0:

1) OS4.0 has a CyberVisionPPC driver -- is this ppc native and if not would it work on 68k?
Yes, it is PPC native, and no, it won't work on 68k. In spite of the name, it does also work with the BVisionPPC card on the A1200, but again only PPC native.

Quote
And wondering why P96 on 68k doesn't have driver if it was developed on OS4?
It might be because the CyberVision cards were developed and/or marketed by the same company who had the P96 competitor CyberGraphics. It wasn't until later that P96 got to be a de facto standard.

Quote
2) For the screen dragging in P96, this has probably been discussed but wondering what was done in OS4 to support screen dragging?   Was this an enhancement in the OS or P96 to enable that?
I believe it was first and foremost in layers.library, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were also stuff done in intuition and other places. Also not that by now (4.1FE), P96 does not exist as a separate entity, it has been completely integrated into the OS (graphics.library mostly, IIRC).

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline kolla

There is a CVPPC card driver for 68k P96, but the developer seem unwilling to release anything that he isn't able to test and debug first hand. So it really boils down someone sending him a system with a CVPPC (and hence also a CSPPC, or a CS040/060 mk-II iirc).

On the other hand, one can continue to use CyberGraphX v4 with CVPPC and enjoy screen dragging and all the other features that P96 lacks anyhow.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline CMTX

With that said, there is one thing that bugs me when using this or any other flavour of classic amiga OS; the inability to use dual monitors with ecs/aga and a graphics card. When an rtg screen gets atention the ecs/aga screen dies, and afaik there is no patch or workaround for this.
If you are using P96:
http://cd.textfiles.com/amigama/amigama199804/WWW/Picasso96/FAQ.html

Quote
Q: What Picasso96 ENV variables are there?
A: There are:
ENV:Picasso96/AmigaVideo: if set to 31kHz, the Amiga will be set to a MULTISCAN-like mode when Picasso96 screens are shown. This is necessary if you want to have a high audio sampling rate because the Amiga audio is coupled with the Display DMA. Only set this if you do not have a 15kHz monitor like the A1084 attached to the Amiga video port.
ENV:Picasso96/BlackSwitching: if set to "Yes", the display will be set to black when screen switches involve a memory transfer of the new screen to the board. This way it might look better. Use it as you like it.

If you are using CGfX4, there are other options - but I can tell you it works as my A3000 has at times been using 3 monitors at once, one on CVPPC, one of CV64 in addition to the native ECS screen.

This doesn't work in my experience, at least with P96. I cannot try cybergraphics with my card (Vampire). With those env variables activated, the rtg screen is always visible, even if you are working with a native screen, BUT as soon as the RTG screen is focused the native screen dies. So, it's possible to use the native screen while you see the rtg screen working, but it's not possible the other way around. This absolutely kills the double screen experience.

Some time ago I did extensive research of this issue on the net and found many people in the same situation as me. At the end the recommended solution is to buy a second graphics card, but i'd prefer to not spend another 200-300€ more, if possible :)

Cheers
 

Offline kolla

Shocking statement from someone intimately involved with OS3 development:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1375937&postcount=71

Essentially saying AROS is pointless because Amiga OS will be open sourced anyways.

Must be a sign of desperation, the end is near...

What will Thomas say?! Gasp!
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

I cannot confirm this. If I open the info window, and drag a file with only a .info and no file in it, I get the new icon all fine. The only particular combination in which nothing happens is if you open a drawer which is "list by names", and "show all files", and you drag a file without an icon into the info window. Then nothing happens. Which is plausible as there is no icon to begin with.

Mea culpa - I was confusing myself with RAWBInfo - default WBInfo does indeed work correctly.

Mea culpa rursus - it does happen with "native" WBInfo and RAWBInfo alike, when the source icon is of type "drawer" and no drawer exists. Changing icon type to "project" (for example) solves this, or making a drawer or a file with corresponding name.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 10:19:41 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS