I bloody well knew it - Brian Bagnell wants yet more time and more money

[jj]

I backed this,  seem to be going well,  if anyone else seen it

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-story-of-the-commodore-amiga-in-pixels?ref=activity

[BozzerBigD]

@Thread

I think I understand this now. On the Edge: The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore was an overview first edition that is now no longer available.

The 'first' book as referred to is Commodore: A Company on the Edge and is available for £90 used and £11.39 for the Kindle edition but is not included in the Kickstarter.

The 'second' book is the one we've funded Commodore: The Amiga Years. Which we will get in both eBook form and hard copy (depending on the level of backing).

The 'third' book will be called Commodore: The Final Years and we will only receive an eBook copy as it stands unless we sign up to a new Kickstarter.

Is this correct?

[BozzerBigD]

@Thread

To be honest I wish I'd backed the David Pleasance book now as given the choice I'm far more interested in his view of the last days of Commodore UK than the official Commodore Business Machines (West Chester operated/Bahamas incorporated) story. Quite frankly the bungled release of the A300/A600, the A3000+ debacle and the disapointing A4000 release is better served from a UK perspective where C= UK still managed to sell a fair few of these machines.

[BozzerBigD]

@Thread

At least if we preorder David Pleasance's book we are guaranteed the full story in two books before Nov 2017! I can't say I expect the second Amiga Years printed book to be ready by then.

https://downtimepublishing.com/products/commodore-the-inside-story

[tasmanian guy]

Amiga in Pixels is being done by Chris Wilkins.  He is awesome and always delivers on his Kickstarters and then some!  

The Amiga Years Blu ray was bloody awesome too (so too was Bedrooms to Billions and they are now doing a Playstation documentary as well..which is another one I have backed).

[jj]

@Thread

At least if we preorder David Pleasance's book we are guaranteed the full story in two books before Nov 2017! I can't say I expect the second Amiga Years printed book to be ready by then.

https://downtimepublishing.com/products/commodore-the-inside-story

I can write the DP book for you now.  "I am awesome I am awesome.  Everybody else was doing it wrong.  I thought of everything.  I know nothing about computers, i could have been selling hats." The end

[Arnuph1s]

I enjoyed the first book very much but has the author now become the George R.R. Martin of computer literature?

[AmigaHope]

I can live with this.

I'm a George R. R. Martin fan.

This is nothing. =P

[BuBBoB]

Indeed, I am in touch with a lawyer to see what she thinks of the situation, I want my book as promised or my money back.

From Kickstarters site:
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all  rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not  or cannot fulfill. (This  is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to  create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their  projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that  backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel  that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project  and fulfill."

[LoadWB]

Having an attorney on-hand is probably very helpful.  Have you contacted Kickstarter, yet?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

People are taking sh** a weeeeeee bit too serious, to be contacting lawyers and all that, over a book.  :lol:

Me, I'm content to wait.  If it shows up before I die that'd be nice.  At this point in my life I'm too busy to have time to read, anyway.  Maybe when I'm retired.  

[psxphill]

we are guaranteed the full story in two books before Nov 2017!

No you aren't: "ESTIMATED DELIVERY Nov 2017"

He is writing from memory, rather than having to track down and interview people, so that improves his estimate.

However, if it really is "NO HOLDS BARRED" then it will likely have to go through a rigorous legal process before publication.

I didn't back Brians book as I had pre-ordered it on amazon years ago, fool me once.... However I would certainly buy both volumes in paper back.

I'd buy Davids book in paper back too, hard back books are too big and awkward. It is only really justified for books with lots of pictures.

[a1200]

Getting a lawyer? The world has gone mad. I am sure the book will be a fantastic read once Brian is writing under the duress of a court writ. It's a book dude, get over it.

[psxphill]

Indeed, I am in touch with a lawyer to see what she thinks of the situation, I want my book as promised or my money back.

From Kickstarters site:
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all  rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not  or cannot fulfill. (This  is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to  create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their  projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that  backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel  that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project  and fulfill."

It's unlikely that Kickstarter's Terms of use will be enforceable by anyone other than Kickstarter. So you would need to talk to them, rather than a lawyer. The clue is "or even legal action on behalf of your backers".

Kickstarter may think he's being reasonable, in which case you've wasted your time.
Or they may ask him to deliver what was originally promised, in which case he'll cut and slash something together to meet those requirements. Which will not be worth owning.

The clause is there for people defrauding, not when it's impossible to deliver the original items but they instead deliver something slightly different.

[pwermonger]

Yes, it certainly seems you have two choices.

Be mad at him and force him to release the original 540 page book he promised which will be cut down drastically

Or you can get the 1030 plus page book with part (somewhere around maybe 700 pages) in physical book, and the rest in an e-book. With an option to pay a bit more to get that third book also in physical copy.

Personally I am not happy about the delay this being the second one since it was first offered up as preorder a few years ago then never came out. But if it gets me a better book with more of the story (and I am also backing and getting Pleasance's book) I am not that unhappy to start threatening lawyers.

Have to remember, its not like he has a track record for defrauding us. He published and released the original version that I always felt raced through the Amiga and Commodore closing part. Due to that, I want to see those parts now given as much space as possible to give us a full accounting of those times for those of us who lived through them but with no internet had limited information about the behind the scenes goings on.

[tasmanian guy]

I'm getting my lawyer too... might actually start a gofundme page to get the book I paid for.  If he wrote the book over 1,000 pages when he knew he needed it to be only 500 odd pages, there's a simple solution.  Reduce the spacing in between the lines and/or reduce the font size.  He could also do a search on "that", "which" and remove them as they are often not required.  He could also reduce the number of pages required by replacing Commodore with just the chicken head symbol and instead of writing Amiga it could be shortened to Miga, even.

Seriously this guy needs to write succinctly anyway... he knew what the Kickstarter was for, he would be seriously penalised if he wrote a 4000 word essay and the requirement was to only write a 2000 word essay.  He would have failed at university!  I guess he has all of our money now and thinks he can do whatever he wants.  Write the book like he said he would, a complete book, not half a book and if you can't fit it in, make the spacing in between the lines smaller and or the font size smaller and take some of these other serious suggestions on board!