**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Found a better reference for your controller card that covers fdisk and all that

http://www.coleskingdom.com/files/WD1002.TXT

Darkage, this is amazing. A complete manual. I read it all.

So it answers my biggest question. "Is a driver Needed to pick up the C: hard Drive".

Answer is no.

Just DOS (Fdisk) and (Format).

Since I haven't changed any jumpers since it last worked, the Drive should be picked up by the controller. (If it not DEAD, or read below another reason)

I'm going to try "fdisk" again.

But I have a hunch if it doesn't pick up (and I may need your help).

I only have DOS 6.2. Maybe it only supports more modern drives like the WD Lifeguard Disk I have.

Maybe I need DOS 3.x to with and older version of FDISK, and thus the Amiga PC also need to boot with that Older DOS TOO!!

I need a DOS 3.x Boot disk, with the FDISK,FORMAT matched.

For now I'm going to download that older version of the LIFEGUARD tool and see if the AMIGA PC running it pickup up the HD.

[Pat the Cat]

Be cautious with those manuals - notice they have a block of strange characters at the end?

It looks to me that the original files might have been cut short. MS were very keen to remove ALL dos drivers from easy download. They spent a lot of money doing that, to force end users to switch to Windows 95 onwards.

But maybe I am being too negative. It's all about experimenting and see what works, without causing damage.

[darkage]

Im pretty sure the ISA MFM Controller, has the driver in the bios.      From the 80's / 90's Ive only seen SCSI and VESA & other IDE addon cards with I/O ports needing additional drivers.   If the hdd controller was on the motherboard then driver would already be on the m/b bios.  

When I saw the screenshot of you successfully running debug against the controller card, my first thought is hook up the MFM drive.   It should automatically work in theory.  (fingers crossed).  

Hopefully the MFM drive is okay and isnt experiencing bit rot.   Thats when you start to investigate applications like spinrite.  

hook it up and see what happens.    and dont run that debug cmd while the hdd is in, dont want to low level format it.  

Edit - Found this article about XT hdd driver -  http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/working-with-st-506-interface-mfm-hard.html

'The IBM PC and XT BIOSes do not support hard drives and know nothing about them.  Support is added via a BIOS extension found on a hard drive controller card.  The default settings for XT controller cards are I/O 320, IRQ5 and DMA3.  An alternative I/O setting is at 320 and some cards allow the IRQ to be set to 2.  The latter is necessary when using an MFM controller in a Tandy 1000, which uses IRQ5 for video (Ghostbusters will not work properly if IRQ5 is disabled for video, as it can be on the SX and TX).  The controller's BIOS extension also provides hard drive tables for the types of hard drives it supports.'

[wbrejnia]

I found my KAlOK Ocatagon Hard Drive.  (MAY NEED THIS FOR FUTUR FORMAT)
 
 http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/DISK/specs/Golden%20Oldie%20Drives.pdf  
 
 Can't tell what Model # (Just a Defect Head sticker on top).
 
 Need remove it to see underneath.

[wbrejnia]

Be cautious with those manuals - notice they have a block of strange characters at the end?

The WD Controller Manual looks to me complete.

[darkage]

This seems interesting even though it would be slow & is expensive.. but still interesting

A MFM / RLL drive emulator http://www.drem.info/

[wbrejnia]

Darkage,

I thought the same as you. So I Hooked up the Hard Drive, Booted DOS and ran FDISK.

The HARD DRIVE did not pick up in "FDISK" or just typing "C:" in DOS.

I flipped both ribbon cables just in case. Rebooted, and FDISK didn't pick up.

AGAIN, I'm wondering do we need an OLDER VERSION OF DOS to pick up the RLL DRIVE. (Why would Microsoft continue to support super old/obsolete Hard drives in DOS or FDISK?)


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I HAVE ALSO Been looking into MS DOS and how drives are recognized (DRIVER or otherwise)

Below shown are two DOS commands that might be "like a Driver" with a BIOS Controller and some smarts on disk.

EXAMPLE IS for a FLOPPY but it does apply to HARD DRIVES TOO



DRIVPARM=/d:01 /f:02 ; For a 720K floppy disk drive on B:
DRIVPARM=/d:01 /f:07 ; For a 1.44K floppy disk drive on B:
DEVICE=DRIVER.SYS /d:01 /f:02 ; For a 720K floppy disk drive on B:
DEVICE=DRIVER.SYS /d:01 /f:07 ; For a 1.44K floppy disk drive on B:
 
THIS IS DRIVPARM Command help http://www.dewassoc.com/support/msdos/drivparm.htm

THIS IS DRIVER.SYS Command help http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/driver.sys.htm

The DRIVER.SYS device driver creates an external reference to the floppy disk drive if it is configured correctly. DO NOT REFERENCE Drive B; otherwise, the floppy disk drive will be installed incorrectly. If you have a hard disk Drive C and you set up DRIVER.SYS, it will create a reference of D: to the 1.44 MB disk in Drive B. Use Drive D to access the 1.44 MB floppy disk drive.

BUT THIS MAY GIVE A CLUE (on a need for OLDER DOS), Just the fact that older drives are not longer supported in DOS 6.2

[wbrejnia]

THIS IS GETTING TO BE TOO MUCH.
 
 I am starting to FEEL LIKE FORMATTING THAT HARD DRIVE, and go forward than all this Reverse Engineering.
 
 It may simply prove it works and I'm happy that I have a working system and built it up to whatever it can be.  I wouldn't trust this HARD DRIVE FOR Anything anyway.  It's a collector piece like my OLD 1MB Compact Flash Card.
 
 Or it doesn't work (Hard Drive is toast), or if Formats but we are Still without a recognized HARD DRIVE.
 
 The more I spend time on this Amiga, the more I remember what I did in university.   I used the XT machine to run MATLAB, so I wouldn't have to wait in line in the LABs.
 
 I think I wrote my Thesis using the Amiga Side.  Can't be sure.
 
 Even if it's there all this work for 50 pages of spelling mistakes.
 The Photo's I have, and that Cartridge is the best I could ever want.
 
 Going to think about this, after a bit more tries.
 
 NEXT STEP is to run some WD Tools and see if HD is seen.

[wbrejnia]

FIRST STRIKE (Failure of Western Digital V2.0 LifeGuard Tool)

This tool doesn't work (won't even run) on AMIGA DOS 6.2 (It's meant for ATA, since it worked in other PC).

Going to download the older version of WD lifeguard

[darkage]

Im wondering if the drive has to be low level formatted to match up parameters with the controller card.    but of course we dont want to do that.    this drive has only ever last been used with the amiga right ?

[wbrejnia]

Im wondering if the drive has to be low level formatted to match up parameters with the controller card. but of course we dont want to do that. this drive has only ever last been used with the amiga right ?

 The controller card should match the drive.  This is all original, bought by me, never touch for ages. (It worked before).
 
 I even checked the WD card and jumper settings.  They are no jumper, (all open), and compared that to the manual that means BIOS is turned on (proven), only one drive (correct) and set to a Hard drive (Highest capacity at the time).
 
 I JUST LOOKED INTO THAT LIFEGUARD TOOL Link you provided.  I have Version 2.1 and it doesn't work.  The download is V1.3 will give it a try (but release notes say lowest supported OS is XP)

 
 IF THAT DOESN'T WORK.   I am seriously at a point where I'll try and FORMAT THE HARD DRIVE
 
 Who knows (as I stated above) the format may refresh the Sectors, and not wipe it out (thus it may become active)

[wbrejnia]

STRIKE 2 ( THE WD Tool V1.x is Years NEWER than the V2.1)
 
 I downloaded the WD Tool provided.  It's a new version for Windows.
 
 My version 3.2 would only run in DOS, but too new for the Amiga PC
 
 ALL DEAD ENDS
 
 All that I'm going to try before FORMAT:
 
 1) ATTEMPT is the DRIVEPARM and DRIVER.SYS commands. (If they are on my 6.2 DOS Install 3 Disk Set)
 
 2) I just found a DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK (With no FDISK on it, just Command.com).  I'll run DOS 6.2 "Fdisk" from DOS 3.3 and if it fails that mean FDISK has changed over 2 versions

[wbrejnia]

STRIKE 2.5 (MSDOS 3.3 BOOT DISK incompatible with DOS 6.2 Commands)

As I expected. I tried to run "Format" command from a DOS 3.3 DISK that I found and it won't run in DOS 6.2), then FDISK would even be worse.

If I don't find a DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK and FDISK for it, I'll consider this STRIKE 3 and try the format.

[wbrejnia]

One more bit of research/education for me. (Rough Guesses, I may be totally off)
 
 But could this be the way to get the C: Drive (HARD DRIVE) recognized by AMIGA DOS?
 
 
 DRIVEPARM is a command
 
 DRIVER.SYS is a config file
 
 Within DRIVER.SYS you can insert
 
 DRIVERPARM with options
 and then assign a device
 DEVICE=[drive:][path]DRIVER.SYS /D:number [/C] [/F:factor] [/H:heads] [/S:sectors] [/T:tracks]
 
 as below
 
 Parameter
 
[drive:][path]
    Specifies the location of the DRIVER.SYS file.
 
Switches
 
/D:number
    Specifies the number of the physical floppy disk drive. Valid values for
    number are in the range 0 through 127. The first physical floppy disk
    drive (drive A) is drive 0; a second physical floppy disk drive is drive
    1; a third physical floppy disk drive, which must be external, is drive
    2. For a computer with one floppy disk drive, drives A and B are both
    numbered 0; for a computer with multiple floppy disk drives, drive B is
    numbered 1.
 
/C
    Specifies that the physical disk drive can detect whether the drive door
    is closed (change-line support).
 
/F:factor
    Specifies the type of disk drive. Valid values for factor are as
    follows:
 
        0    160K/180K or 320K/360K
        1    1.2 megabyte (MB)
        2    720K (3.5-inch disk) or other
        7    1.44 MB (3.5-inch disk)
        9    2.88 MB (3.5-inch disk)
 
    The default value for factor is 2.
 
    Generally, if you use the /F switch, you can omit the /H, /S, and /T
    switches. Check the default values for these switches to make sure they
    are correct for the type of disk drive you are using. To determine the
    appropriate values for the disk drive, see the disk-drive manufacturer's
    documentation.
 
    If you specify the /H, /S, and /T switches, you can omit the /F switch.
 

[wbrejnia]

FINAL DECISION (NO Formatting of Amiga PC Octagon HD)

So I decided not to format the Hard Drive using the WD debug utility.

Instead this is the Project Plan:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 1 [ Amiga 2000 with Bridgeboard ] * Completed *
- Amiga 2000 with Sound (working)
- Amiga Monitor (working)
- Amiga Keyboard (Most needed keys working, F1-.. need fix)
- Amiga Mouse (working)
- Epyx Joystick (working)
- 3.5 Internal Amiga Disk (working)
- Bridgeboard (working)
- Amiga External A1010 Drive [Amiga & on Bridgeboard] (working)
- Three Kickstarts ROMS including Original (working)
- OS [Workbench 1.2 & 1.3 on appropriate kickstarts] (Working)
- SW Licenses (Have a few original Copyright Disks for Amiga, Bridgeboard and working downloaded copies)
- CURRENT USABLE (GAMES, MS DOS, Amiga OS) Good old RETRO stuff.
- FUTURE PROJECTS (upgradable with additional components, including Modern solutions)
- CONSIDERATION: Sell   Fully Tested and Working System (All documented in detail on Amiga.org Thread)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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PROJECT 2 [ 386 PC - DOS 6.2 with WD Controller & Hard Drive ] * Future *
- Install WD Controller with HD into 386 AT/XT
- Try to get above working with MS DOS
- HAVE [Hard Drive] [3.25" 1.44 MB Floppy Drive]
- ** Try to get controller working with HD**

- ** Last resort try DEBUG Format on Hard Drive **
- ** IF WORKS ** consider putting back into Amiga **

- ** IF DOESN'T WORK ** Below:
- CONSIDERATION: Sell working WD Controller Card from Amiga PC
- CONSIDERATION: Sell PC RS232 CARD from Amiga PC
- MOMENTO: One Stone Age RLL Hard Drive (for Retro Shelf )
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PROJECT 3 [Aurdino Aquarium Pump Doser ] * Critical *
- Amiga Project has side tracked me too much from Priorities
- Tanks Alkalinity has dropped due to distractions (Could Damage/KILL 30 new Corals in new Tank Setup)
- Finishing Automation gives more time for Project #2 (And Family)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At least project #1 is completed and I'm happy

[Dandy]

...
A SCSI controller can be connected to 7 devices, any of which can be a controller.
...

Wutt?   :confused:
Why would anyone connect 7 controllers to an SCSI - the correct term is - host adapter?
The SCSI host is the one that controls the up to 7 devices on the SCSI-II chain (up to 15 devices on UW-SCSI chains)...

(Typo edited)