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AuthorTopic: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)  (Read 41684 times)

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Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 05:17:39 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820090
This is probably obvious, but after you boot into the DOS environment, did you try just cd'ing to c:?

I'm pretty sure I tried that.  Tried a whole bunch of Drive letters.
 It may be that I'm not properly booting via JANUS, just booting DOS off the Floppy drive.
 
 Shouldn't the PC Bridgeboard boot up without the Floppy disk?
 
 Will refresh my memory with another start up tonight.
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 05:17:54 PM »
Quote from: Matt_H;820074
3. The hard disk contains BOTH Amiga and PC systems. If I'm remembering correctly, it was possible with the Bridgeboard software to put Amiga partitions on hard drives connected to the PC side. (Can someone confirm/refute this?) They wouldn't have been bootable, but since the machine had Kickstart 1.2 anyway, that wouldn't have mattered. The system's boot floppy would have contained the the appropriate configuration files and mountlists to make this work.

You can do without Bridgeboard. Bus to bus :)

If you imagine multibus systems like this, and this kind of works with most Amiga SCSI gear. A SCSI controller can be connected to 7 devices, any of which can be a controller. Each controller can see the others drives as well as it's own, because they are all on one bus. The problem with doing this SCSI style is when you unplug a drive or controller, or power it down, all the systems bomb out. Bad news for CD owners who eject a drive. Guess ther are ways around this.

IIRC BB is similar bus to bus, The PC can access the Amiga drives, the Amiga can access the PC drives, I think. That's kind of the idea.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 05:32:33 PM »
I'm determined to end this multi-year project, and close this chapter in my life.
 
 Would this help?
 
 I'll video tape my setup, my boot up, my internals and post the video on youtube.
 
 This system was working when I put it into storage.  I just need to figure out the proper sequence and which workbench disk I need to put in.
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 05:33:11 PM »
Quote from: Matt_H;820074
3. The hard disk contains BOTH Amiga and PC systems. If I'm remembering correctly, it was possible with the Bridgeboard software to put Amiga partitions on hard drives connected to the PC side. (Can someone confirm/refute this?) They wouldn't have been bootable, but since the machine had Kickstart 1.2 anyway, that wouldn't have mattered. The system's boot floppy would have contained the the appropriate configuration files and mountlists to make this work.

You can do without Bridgeboard. Bus to bus :)

If you imagine multibus systems like this, and this kind of works with most Amiga SCSI gear. A SCSI controller can be connected to 7 devices, any of which can be a controller. Each controller can see the others drives as well as it's own, because they are all on one bus. The problem with doing this SCSI style is when you unplug a drive or controller, or power it down, all the systems bomb out. Bad news for CD owners who eject a drive. Guess ther are ways around this.

IIRC BB is similar bus to bus, The PC can access the Amiga drives, the Amiga can access the PC drives, I think. That's kind of the idea. One way to do it is for the PC side to autoboot, but that means hooking the drive up to a controller that side that is bootable. If wll bootup as last set, which means if it doesn't have the hardware present, it will not boot up properly if at all anyway.

So reading the data on the Amiga makes as good sense as any. BB systems aren't just BB when starting them up, they are all hardware needed for that PC hard disk to startup correctly.

I did call it an archive a while back, but somebody zapped the comment already. Thanks guys. You can't verify a BB PC disk is bootable unless necessary hardware is also plugged into the right places for it to boot. You do not get autoconfigure on a 386 PC.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 05:35:17 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 06:05:40 PM »
Quote from: wbrejnia;820095
I'm determined to end this multi-year project, and close this chapter in my life.
 
 Would this help?
 
 I'll video tape my setup, my boot up, my internals and post the video on youtube.
 
 This system was working when I put it into storage.  I just need to figure out the proper sequence and which workbench disk I need to put in.


Yes, it sounds like you just need to find the right floppy disk(s).

Remember, the hard disk controller in the machine is in an ISA slot. So by default, that means only the PC would be able to see it. I don't know what determines if a PC disk controller is bootable, but theoretically when you power on the machine the Amiga side will boot up asking for a floppy and the PC side will boot up from the hard disk.

If the PC disk controller is not bootable, then you will also need a floppy in the 5.25" floppy drive (connected to the PC side) with a driver for the hard disk controller.

Janus is the Bridgeboard software that interfaces the Amiga and PC sides. If it is possible to put an Amiga partition on a PC-side hard drive, you'd need Janus to make it work. Hopefully somewhere in your disk collection there's a functional working copy of Janus that you used in the past that has all of the correct configuration details on it. I'm hoping that if you find and boot from that disk you'll find your system exactly as it was when you last used it.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2017, 06:14:21 PM »
Quote from: Matt_H;820101
Hopefully somewhere in your disk collection there's a functional working copy of Janus that you used in the past that has all of the correct configuration details on it. I'm hoping that if you find and boot from that disk you'll find your system exactly as it was when you last used it.

I think we're all hoping for that.  Although you might want to prepare yourself for that hard drive being kaput.  It is, after all, at least 25 years old.  I suppose some obvious checks would be do you feel it spinning if you power up the system with the case open, any activity lights, etc.?

Hope all this effort is worth it!  :)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2017, 09:38:28 PM »
Moving Forward (Setup almost done)

*** SOME ADDITIONAL CLUES ***

The WD HDD Controller is DOUBLE HOOKED UP to Hard Drive
as shown below:

(And the Next Photo of the OLD WORKING WORKBENCH DISK IS ANOTHER CLUE)



I REMEMBER THIS DISK BELOW. It is what I always used to BOOT.

The LABEL SAYS "Amiga/PC WorkBench" so it was setup for Dual Boot Somehow.

The Dual Connection says to me "that the HARD Drive was visible to PC and AMIGA" Somehow...



It's won't boot off this disk (Read Error), but I can Boot off a working Workbench disk and Examine it.

Last time I tried to re-recreate this workbench DISK and I got as far as a booting Workbench, that will Boot PC Side (but only from a Floppy MS DOS Boot Disk).

Does anyone know how this is suppose to work?
 
 IF I COULD SEE WHAT THE BOOT IS SUPPOSE TO BE LIKE.  IT might jog my memory to figure things out.
 Plus if the PC Side See's the Hard Drive, how do I know.  Will an ICON Appear on Workbench?  Will there be a C: drive on PC DOS Window.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 09:44:36 PM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2017, 09:41:37 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820102
I think we're all hoping for that. Although you might want to prepare yourself for that hard drive being kaput. It is, after all, at least 25 years old. I suppose some obvious checks would be do you feel it spinning if you power up the system with the case open, any activity lights, etc.?

Hope all this effort is worth it! :)
The hard drive is working.  Spinning. and Does the Whirl Click Click Sound when powered up.  Even that Hard Drive LED that I wired ages ago, blinks.   It's ALIVE, I'm pretty sure.
 
 It's not the end of the world if DRIVE IS DEAD.  But would be cool to see what's on it  (Plus this is a challenge to me.  Like a puzzle to solve).
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 09:53:38 PM »
Quote from: wbrejnia;820110
The Dual Connection says to me "that the HARD Drive was visible to PC and AMIGA" Somehow...

The dual connection just means it's an RLL or MFM type hard drive, has nothing to do with the drive being visible on the Amiga side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_interface

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-506  (see the picture of the controller connected to the drive)

That being said, it may be visible on the Amiga side, but that just depends on how you have it configured through the bridgeboard software.  It would be much slower than a natively configured Amiga hard drive.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt

Do you have access to another Amiga that you could attempt to run DiskSalv on that bootdisk, with?
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2017, 09:57:10 PM »
This site has link to the manual.  How's your German? :lol:

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=328
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2017, 10:22:46 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820114
The dual connection just means it's an RLL or MFM type hard drive, has nothing to do with the drive being visible on the Amiga side.

Do you have access to another Amiga that you could attempt to run DiskSalv on that bootdisk, with?

This Amiga is functional, and I have an external Floppy drive (make things easier).
 
 I will get DiskSalv and attempt a clone.
 
 In the meantime I can read the ORIGINAL WORKING DISK.  What file would I review to see what the boot sequence originally did.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2017, 10:31:57 PM »
Start with "S:Startup-Sequence" on your bootdisk.  Also "User-Startup", if it exists (only newer versions of the OS have this).
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2017, 10:39:51 PM »
Boot with "OLD DISK in DF2"
 
 I booted off A Working Workbench Disk and on Other External Drive I can see the Original Workbench DISK.
 
 
 
 Will continue with instructions given above (thanks for helping)
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2017, 10:51:12 PM »
Here is the Original Workbench Disk that I used to Boot this Amiga With.
 
 s\Startup-Sequence file contents
 
 
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2017, 11:00:12 PM »
OK. You might never be able to boot off the PC disk to get the PC hard disk to get going, but you should be able to get access to the data. Very good chance of it.

One complication with the older drives - because they have multiple data cables, it is ever easier for just one end to be the wrong way around and the connections get scrambled.

You really want to power off and read a manual for the PC hard drive controller if you can. Make sure the cables are all connected correct way around, these older ones are tricky sometimes.

The reason you can usually do it from the Amiga side if you can suss out the controller is - you can usually get the PC going enough from floppy to mount the drive to DOS at least. That's one starting place.

This is not a SCSI or IDE drive, but if the drive spins at least, good chance you can pull the data from it, however it was setup to read to..

How good you can get Janus going to mount the PC hard drive from the Amiga is just a question of getting the right components, after that, should access OK. Sounds like it. One attempt if the circuitry on the drive has died is to try to find an identical circuit board, that can be swap out replaced on most types. Spinning drive healthy or savable mostly..

One very handy thing to know about working with old PCs. Digital Research DOS. It's very handy if you need a boot disk that will get you to a DOS prompt on a real PC. Works usually on emulators too, but you want about 5.31, not much later if any. DOS is DOS nearly 100% on these early PCs. You don't have to touch microsoft products to do it, but that's another way.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:17:06 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi