Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?  (Read 36826 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline duga

Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #134 on: January 04, 2017, 07:41:13 PM »
None.
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #135 on: January 04, 2017, 07:56:52 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;819008
How should I know? Ask ASUS, it's their product, after all. If you installed an operating system the system was not designed for, then that's certainly not ASUS' problem and they will tell you. The product probably worked when it arrived at your Mum's home. Did the system come with Windows 10? Probably not. So if you install something on the machine ASUS doesn't give you a warranty for, that's then entirely your problem.

No, I'm not running a windows repair shop, I'm not interested in this work.

Same finger pointing issue I run into I bet.  Bought my wife a laptop with windows 8.  It got a forced upgrade to 10.  Dell says its Microsoft's fault, Microsoft says since it was an OEM windows originally its Dells support issue.  Meanwhile wife can't print on legal size or use headphones.

Daughters netbook got forced from window 7 to 10, it takes 28 minutes to boot.  I bought her a $200 'refurbished' laptop and put linux on the netbook, took less than 20 minutes to do the whole install.

But users are stuck in the middle, they buy a system, then get a forced (windows) OS "upgrade" and when it doesn't work the OEM points at Microsoft and Microsoft points at the OEM.
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #136 on: January 04, 2017, 08:00:47 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;819011
I'm not unhappy about my choice. I'm just telling you what the drawbacks of open source are, and that you cannot expect the average user to handle such a system. Open source is for developers. You are a developer, I'm a developer, but my Mum is not. She cannot install a printer with cups - I can. She *probably* could install a printer on windows, but not on Linux.

The "drawbacks" you list open source are specific to open source, those drawbacks are common to software in general (open or closed source).

Have you tried to install a printer in current versions of windows?  Its a lot easier in Linux now a days.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #137 on: January 04, 2017, 09:30:27 PM »
Quote from: EugeneNine;819046
It got a forced upgrade to 10.  
Who forced you? I'm pretty sure I was never forced to upgrade to anything.

Quote from: EugeneNine;819046
Dell says its Microsoft's fault, Microsoft says since it was an OEM windows originally its Dells support issue.
If Microsoft provides an upgrade that doesn't work on your machine, it's Microsoft's fault if the upgrade doesn't work. Unroll the upgrade, and the problem is gone. If Dell claims that this machine supports Windows 10, it's a Dell problem.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #138 on: January 04, 2017, 09:39:51 PM »
Quote from: EugeneNine;819048
The "drawbacks" you list open source are specific to open source, those drawbacks are common to software in general (open or closed source).
Please check again carefully which point I made. There is certainly a difference. A commercial software vendor makes a living from happy customers, and it's in the interest of the vendor to provide usable and servicable software. Open Source software is driven by the motivation of its developers, whose goals may or may not be identical to those of the users.

That is the difference I want to point out. It means that open source software tends to be much less user friendly, harder to manage, and less compatible to products you buy on the market.

Quote from: EugeneNine;819048
Have you tried to install a printer in current versions of windows?  Its a lot easier in Linux now a days.

Insert the CD, click on install. For Linux, I first need to hand-pick a vendor that supports Linux. HP is in general fine, though it requires for new printers not supported by the distribution a binary blob that - typically - does not work out of the box on a given machine, due to incompatible and unstable software interfaces. Been there, done that.

Yes, I got everything working, but it was a hassle.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #139 on: January 04, 2017, 10:18:26 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;819053
Who forced you? I'm pretty sure I was never forced to upgrade to anything.

Microsoft did use some pretty sneaky tactics there, for a bit.  For example when they changed the [X] close gadget to an "implied consent" to allow the upgrade to proceed.  Even they admit that was a "poor decision" on their part.

Still not the same as "forcing" someone, however.

I don't know, I have very little sympathy for someone who says that their computer runs poorly.  Or their car, or the plumbing in their house, or anything else, for that matter.  Take the time to understand it and make it better.  That's the whole "if you want something done right do it yourself" attitude, lol. :lol:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline EvilGuy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2006
  • Posts: 186
    • Show only replies by EvilGuy
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #140 on: January 04, 2017, 10:35:35 PM »
Quote from: EugeneNine;819046
Same finger pointing issue I run into I bet.  Bought my wife a laptop with windows 8.  It got a forced upgrade to 10.  Dell says its Microsoft's fault, Microsoft says since it was an OEM windows originally its Dells support issue.  Meanwhile wife can't print on legal size or use headphones.


That is the "ease of use" that open-source can't possibly achieve, rotfl.

The die-hard fanatics on either side are completely blinded by their own belief in their One True Way. Thing is, software and hardware is bloody hard to get right when both are static but when one of them keeps changing underneath you the end-user has almost no chance of getting it right.

You've just got to shake your head at those who blame everything on "open-source".
 

Offline dovegrace

  • Committed Git
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 202
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by dovegrace
    • http://dovegrace.blogspot.com
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #141 on: January 04, 2017, 10:38:08 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;819056

I don't know, I have very little sympathy for someone who says that their computer runs poorly.  Or their car, or the plumbing in their house, or anything else, for that matter.  Take the time to understand it and make it better.  That's the whole "if you want something done right do it yourself" attitude, lol. :lol:


Amen to that.
A1200: 50mhz GVP Jaws II+, OS 3.1, 32mb Fast, 1gb HD, Indivision MKIICR, PCMCIA network
A4000D: stock 030/25, OS 3.9, 16mb Fast, 1gb HD, Picasso II, Ariadne II, IOExtender
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #142 on: January 04, 2017, 10:39:22 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;819053
Who forced you? I'm pretty sure I was never forced to upgrade to anything.


If Microsoft provides an upgrade that doesn't work on your machine, it's Microsoft's fault if the upgrade doesn't work. Unroll the upgrade, and the problem is gone. If Dell claims that this machine supports Windows 10, it's a Dell problem.

The forced windows 10 "upgrade" is well known and takes lots of steps to prevent it that are not end user friendly and even 'hackers' have to keep up with the new methods every time Microsoft figured out a way around the other methods of preventing it.

Well unrolling the upgrade now requires me to pop in the CD and spend a couple hours watching windows reinstall then reinstalling all her software.  So its not time cost effective to do.
 

Offline EvilGuy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2006
  • Posts: 186
    • Show only replies by EvilGuy
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #143 on: January 04, 2017, 10:43:43 PM »
Quote from: kolla;818992
So... woop woop for compatible closed source drivers from Microsoft.


rotfl, the Win10 upgrade on my mother's ASUS ended up making the audio beep every few minutes. The "official" recommended methods of stopping it was to a) not upgrade to Windows 10, or b) uninstall the drivers for the sound card. Good fun.
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #144 on: January 04, 2017, 10:43:55 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;819054
Insert the CD, click on install. For Linux, I first need to hand-pick a vendor that supports Linux. HP is in general fine, though it requires for new printers not supported by the distribution a binary blob that - typically - does not work out of the box on a given machine, due to incompatible and unstable software interfaces. Been there, done that.

Yes, I got everything working, but it was a hassle.

Its windows 10 and an HP laserjet.  So inset HP CD, wait for it to install then update itsself from the web and then have her try to print on legal size and it cuts off the print at letter size so we open a case with hp who says reinstall their software.


Or I run linux so I plug HP printer into the network, enter my root password and its done.  I then try to print her legal size statements and they print in legal size like they are supposed to.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #145 on: January 04, 2017, 10:47:28 PM »
Quote from: EugeneNine;819062
So inset HP CD

That's your first mistake.  Figure even if you bought something brand new, off the shelf today, that it's been sitting in that box for months and is almost certainly outdated.  Never, ever use the CD that comes with a piece of equipment.  Always download the latest drivers off the manufacturer's website.  Maybe that will help?
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #146 on: January 04, 2017, 10:58:07 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;819056
Microsoft did use some pretty sneaky tactics there, for a bit.  For example when they changed the [X] close gadget to an "implied consent" to allow the upgrade to proceed.  Even they admit that was a "poor decision" on their part.

Still not the same as "forcing" someone, however.



Both systems were running windows 8 and 7 when they went to bed and both had 10 when they woke up, no prompting.  And I had did some of the "prevent windows 10" but I hadn't had a chance to see if there were any new methods to prevent the windows 10 upgrade that day.

Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;819056
I don't know, I have very little sympathy for someone who says that  their computer runs poorly.  Or their car, or the plumbing in their  house, or anything else, for that matter.  Take the time to understand  it and make it better.  That's the whole "if you want something done  right do it yourself" attitude, lol. :lol:

Thats why I went OS.  I can't fix some of windows issues without the source.

I opened a ticket with MS on typeperf.exe.  In windows 2000 it was a resource kit tool.  It was bundled as part of the OS in server 2003 so it then became officially supported.  If you call the cpu % utilization with an * for the CPU/Core # it will sometimes give a - number.  I was able to duplicate it and opened a case and MS decided to not fix it instead giving a workaround.  So I provided the workaround to the monitoring team and for the next couple years they hated me because every time they put an invalid cpu % utilization ticket in my queue I'd send it right back to them with MS's workaround (which wasn't feasible to implement BTW).

My point is that every 'fault' of open source is in reality a 'fault' with software development in general no matter if the source is opened or closed.
For every open source developer that doesn't value their users input there are just as many that do.  Likewise there are close source developers who think they know what the end users needs/wants better than what their users do (Apple/Microsoft).

I seem to recall Commodore developers were often called out for not listening to what their users needed/wanted.  But when it comes down to it if you get stuck with a close source package that has unresponsive developers your stuck.  If you use an open source package and the developers are unresponsive then you can simply say fork it and make it the way you think it should be.  You don't have that option with close source.

I wish they would just OS the code and let us work on it.  For now AROS is the next best and when I don't have an application in AROS I need Linux works best.  I don't have to check for the daily trick to prevent upgrade with either.
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #147 on: January 04, 2017, 11:03:00 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;819063
That's your first mistake.  Figure even if you bought something brand new, off the shelf today, that it's been sitting in that box for months and is almost certainly outdated.  Never, ever use the CD that comes with a piece of equipment.  Always download the latest drivers off the manufacturer's website.  Maybe that will help?

replace cd with download software, whatever.
Either way its been uninstalled, reinstalled, etc multiple times and still won't print legal size.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #148 on: January 04, 2017, 11:08:52 PM »
Quote from: EugeneNine;819066
replace cd with download software, whatever.
Either way its been uninstalled, reinstalled, etc multiple times and still won't print legal size.

Try installing it on a different Windows PC.  Isolate if it's an issue with the printer or with the software.  My guess then is that it's a stuck setting somewhere.  Sometimes they're buried several layers deep.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 11:16:59 PM by Oldsmobile_Mike »
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline EugeneNine

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 88
    • Show only replies by EugeneNine
Re: Consequences of the AmigaOS 3.1 source code "leak", one year after?
« Reply #149 from previous page: January 04, 2017, 11:15:43 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;819067
Try installing it on a different Windows PC.  Isolate if it's an issue with the printer, or with the software.  My guess then is that it's a stuck setting somewhere.  Sometimes they're buried several layers deep.

Daughters netbook was the only other windows 10 pc.  We've managed to keep the rest at 7 which works fine.
Her netbook was useless in 10, took 28 minutes to boot to a login and then was so slow as to not be usable, don't know why they would even try to push it.  She had a chromebook and used it until I found another good deal on a 'refurbished' latitude and she uses it now.

Just not worth the time to troubleshoot anymore, I just hand her a Linux laptop when she needs to get work done.  Windows it pretty much just a game os anymore.

Mine all have Linux from my current Latitude E6230 down to the Latitude C400.