Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000  (Read 912 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline QuikSanz

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2016, 12:48:47 AM »
Quote from: kolla;812526
For what it is worth, FS-UAE on my macbook (that isn't even "pro") runs in large rings around Vampire, as does FS-UAE my Intel NUC running DragonflyBSD... my only insensitive to get a Vampire would be if SAGA really provides improved experience of the Amiga chipset architecture, I already have excellent RTG experience of Amiga OS with UAE incarnations.


My Wintel machine will remain just that! My A2000 & 4000T will continue to work just fine for AOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2016, 01:16:33 AM »
Exactly. It's nice and cool with the 68080, but as long as it remains 68EC080, without FPU and without MMU - what does it hold over emulation? 64 bit this and that and new functionality is only interesting if there is software around to use it. 100% of the software library is legacy, and can make zero use of new functionality.

Does (Free)MiNT run on the 68080?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
CDTV/V500v2
A500/Viper530
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac mini with MorphOS
(+ CV64, Emplant, A2065, Catweasels ...)
 

Offline Iggy

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2016, 03:03:38 AM »
Quote from: OlafS3;812518
And a modern Intel/AMD-System runs cycle around your X5000 at a fraction of cost. Now what? Let Gunnar have his fun there.

Seriously? I'm thrilled that Gunnar pulled this thing off.
I worked for several years for a firm that sold 68K based systems.

And its going to completely flatten any other 68K based upgrades.
For that matter, if you were comparing the Vampire to a 200-300 MHz PPC (like those on a Amiga accelerator) it might very well win.

BTW - My X64 system is faster than yours. :laugh1:
But I still like the PPC based stuff.
My over 10 year old 2.5 GHz Quad core G5 PowerMac runs Ubuntu Mate with about the same performance as my Core2 Quad (which in itself is much faster than my i7 laptop).

Its all up to what you value.

My only real problem the Gun is that we were discussing a cross platform game a few years ago, now I regularly get to hear these silly comments "we though about PPC...".
No you didn't because an FPGA based PPC would really suck compared to the real thing.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline JimDrew

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 236
  • Total likes: 0
Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2016, 04:51:16 AM »
Quote from: kolla;812530
Exactly. It's nice and cool with the 68080, but as long as it remains 68EC080, without FPU and without MMU - what does it hold over emulation?

Well, for one it runs on real hardware.

Secondly, it's faster than 132MHz PPC PowerMacs from back in the day when running FUSION.  No need for PPC... it's junk anyways.
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2016, 05:10:22 AM »
Quote from: JimDrew;812534
Well, for one it runs on real hardware.

Secondly, it's faster than 132MHz PPC PowerMacs from back in the day when running FUSION.  No need for PPC... it's junk anyways.


PPC is not junk, but neither is a good 68K machine
 

Offline F1Lupo

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2016, 05:26:57 AM »
Quote from: QuikSanz;812535
PPC is not junk, but neither is a good 68K machine


+1 :-) FWIW I'll be buying a Vampire for my 1200 when it comes out with full FPU and mmu & at the same time enjoying my PPC miggy so all good!
____________________________________________________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50, A4000-CSMKIII
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
--- www.mancave-ramblings.blogspot.ca ---
  -AspireOS.com & Amikit- Amiga for your netbook-
***X1000- I BELIEVE *** :angel:
 

Offline JimDrew

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 236
  • Total likes: 0
Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #81 on: August 14, 2016, 05:50:21 AM »
Quote from: QuikSanz;812535
PPC is not junk, but neither is a good 68K machine

Oh no, trust me... PPC is junk.  I know it quite well!  I would use an x86 over a PPC any day.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #82 on: August 14, 2016, 09:31:20 AM »
Quote from: JimDrew;812537
Oh no, trust me... PPC is junk.  I know it quite well!  I would use an x86 over a PPC any day.

Well, it's all a nice processor platform with a nice orthogonal assembler language which is something I can admire, but all that doesn't help.

Performance wise, x64 is really a lot better. Not Motorola's fault, of course. They don't have the same resources intel had. Or, to be fair, AMD, which really pushed x86 into the 21st century with their 64bit extensions.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #83 on: August 14, 2016, 10:17:51 AM »
Quote from: JimDrew;812537
Oh no, trust me... PPC is junk.  I know it quite well!  I would use an x86 over a PPC any day.


I'm sold, lets forget these slow fpga's. Who is going to make an i7 accelerator for the a1200?
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #84 on: August 14, 2016, 11:01:29 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;812539
I'm sold, lets forget these slow fpga's. Who is going to make an i7 accelerator for the a1200?

Compared to a PPC accelerator or the X-something PPC machines, that's at least a much more sensible option, yes.  Well, provided you can somehow get the power into the system. But it doesn't have to be an i7 for that means. Even a mobile i5 would certainly work.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #85 on: August 14, 2016, 11:19:49 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;812540
Compared to a PPC accelerator or the X-something PPC machines, that's at least a much more sensible option, yes.  Well, provided you can somehow get the power into the system. But it doesn't have to be an i7 for that means. Even a mobile i5 would certainly work.


yeah, x86 expansion running 68k emu under jit emu, is another thing i ever suggested. one thing is, this way it wouldnt give us mmu either as it doesnt work with jit.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #86 on: August 14, 2016, 01:41:59 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;812542
this way it wouldnt give us mmu either as it doesnt work with jit.

It could, you might even be able to use the x86 mmu/virtualisation to do it.

Then you don't need to do anything special with memory apart from endian issues.

You'd probably need to use one of the low power i7's that they use in the surface pro 4. A core m3 would probably be good enough though http://ark.intel.com/products/88198
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 02:05:37 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2016, 02:25:54 PM »
Quote from: JimDrew;812537
Oh no, trust me... PPC is junk.  I know it quite well!  I would use an x86 over a PPC any day.


btw. ive heard it before from other hardware designers, but interesting, why do you think that?

edit: ohmm, sorry, youre not actually a hardware designer for what i know, but nevertheless..
 

Offline Terminills

Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2016, 03:09:56 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;812547
btw. ive heard it before from other hardware designers, but interesting, why do you think that?

edit: ohmm, sorry, youre not actually a hardware designer for what i know, but nevertheless..


iirc Jim has a long history of hardware design.
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline JimDrew

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 236
  • Total likes: 0
Re: A2080 i.e. Vampire 500 V2 on an Amiga 2000
« Reply #89 on: August 14, 2016, 03:21:51 PM »
Yep, lots of hardware designs and products besides the software I have written.

PPC is just too confined being RISC (too many instructions required to be productive compared to CISC).  When I was working on the Motorola coreless CPU project (basically a Xilinix clone with a microcode code engine that could be programmed), we got the CPU speed of the 68K emulation much faster than the 060 (much like Gunnar has done now with the Apollo core).  It had the ability to swap endians and anything we wanted to do.  Unfortunately, IBM really pushed the PPC architecture and that was the way Motorola went.

My 68040 core (with FPU and MMU) I wrote for FUSION-PC under Virtual Box for Windows runs circles around the Apollo core and WinUAE w/JIT on my 4930K Intel setup.  Most benchmark programs break due to the speed.  So, yes a CPU core running even on a low-end Intel or AMD CPU would make a better accelerator option.  Powering it would be the problem though, so I don't see this as a real viable option without having a lot of extra power supply related hardware.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 03:28:29 PM by JimDrew »