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Author Topic: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this  (Read 3203 times)

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Offline wawrzon

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 08:58:45 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;808870
Last I messed with AfaOS it had some odd exe/elf thing going on.


afa-os dates back to times when amiga-m68k native aros was unmaintained. there was no elf2hunk tool, which was first written by jason, when porting aros back to 68k in oder to ensure aros binaries to run on aos, so far as they dont contain aros library dependencies.
 

Offline Acill

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2016, 04:33:52 AM »
Very cool to see this and I hope it takes off. I would be more than willing to test any mediator based stuff you do. My system is as up dated as you can get too. I have both a voodoo 5, 5500 and a Radeon 9200 on my mediator. 060 and a PPC if you decide to support PPC at all.
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Offline kolla

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2016, 10:53:59 AM »
Do you want a name for this project? May I suggest Pirate96 :D
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2016, 11:11:37 AM »
Quote from: kolla;808899
Do you want a name for this project? May I suggest Pirate96 :D

Atleast be a bit creative:

Dali16
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline kolla

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2016, 11:22:52 AM »
Very creative ;)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline bbond007

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2016, 01:51:28 PM »
Quote from: kolla;808899
Do you want a name for this project? May I suggest Pirate96 :D

or Pablo2016
 

Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2016, 03:21:13 PM »
lol, as creative as those are, it's going to be more like CGX.

I was thinking of something more boring less stuck to a year like OpenRTG.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2016, 04:54:28 PM »
Quote from: bbond007;808904
or Pablo2016


Yes !
Vote for Pablo in 2016 !

Because its no crazier than any other option.

Back on topic, open RTG and mediator drivers?
Good idea.
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Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2016, 05:09:44 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;808920
Yes !
Vote for Pablo in 2016 !

Because its no crazier than any other option.

Back on topic, open RTG and mediator drivers?
Good idea.


Assuming this works (I'm still just scouring the Aros source to become familiar) Aros can load existing P96 style .card files so the assumption is that it's possible to use existing P96 drivers in addition to Aros style drivers.

Whether the secret sauce in the Mediator drivers that allows card to card DMA will still function is anyone's guess.

Does anyone know if Mediator DMA works on Aros 68k? They don't use Elbox libraries if I'm not mistaken.

First things first, learning the aros codebase and getting some of it patched in.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2016, 05:26:52 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;808922
Assuming this works (I'm still just scouring the Aros source to become familiar) Aros can load existing P96 style .card files so the assumption is that it's possible to use existing P96 drivers in addition to Aros style drivers.

Whether the secret sauce in the Mediator drivers that allows card to card DMA will still function is anyone's guess.

Does anyone know if Mediator DMA works on Aros 68k? They don't use Elbox libraries if I'm not mistaken.

First things first, learning the aros codebase and getting some of it patched in.

The current P96 driver for Vampire (written by Jason M.) does exactly this, works on both Aros and P96
 

Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2016, 07:27:53 PM »
To anyone interested, how is the Aros running at the moment on real Amigas rather than emulators?

I'd really like to see what I'm working with. Who knows, maybe it's not as bad as it was a few years ago when I was first interested.

So far, I've got a nightly build running on WinUAE, but that's pretty limited and far faster than real hardware.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2016, 08:41:42 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;808922

Does anyone know if Mediator DMA works on Aros 68k? They don't use Elbox libraries if I'm not mistaken.

amiga pci bridges support is not complete on aros. it deosnt work as it is now. maybe you can view the cards present, but you cant use them. for details please ask jaosn and toni.

pci hidd code for mediator an prometheus is here:
https://trac.aros.org/trac/browser/AROS/trunk/AROS/arch/m68k-amiga/hidd
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 08:46:09 PM by wawrzon »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2016, 08:52:06 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;808940
To anyone interested, how is the Aros running at the moment on real Amigas rather than emulators?


on my a4k 060 id say reasonable. especially rtg. the problem is with the available desktops, each one has its drawbacks, workook is too proimitive, wanderer doesnt save some prefs in right endianness and has slow dir sisting routine, scalos eats up too much chipram, magellan is too unintuitive and more a file manager imho. also the new versions are slower than original.


Quote
So far, I've got a nightly build running on WinUAE, but that's pretty limited and far faster than real hardware.


you can turn off jit in uae, then it will be actually even slower than the real thing. however if you want to get aros running on your real machine to see for yourself, i can help you.
 

Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2016, 09:09:08 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;808946
on my a4k 060 id say reasonable. especially rtg. the problem is with the available desktops, each one has its drawbacks, workook is too proimitive, wanderer doesnt save some prefs in right endianness and has slow dir sisting routine, scalos eats up too much chipram, magellan is too unintuitive and more a file manager imho. also the new versions are slower than original.


Yeah, the desktops make a big difference and it's hard to separate whether it is Workbook (for example) or drawing operations being slow.


Quote

you can turn off jit in uae, then it will be actually even slower than the real thing. however if you want to get aros running on your real machine to see for yourself, i can help you.


I've tried a few variations of that.

Running it as approximate A1200 speed, no jit, etc. give me a result, but it's hard to judge if it's correct.

For example, I'd assume that memory speed would be orders of magnitude faster than any real system, even with RTG.

When I run WinUAE as fast as it can go, screen and window redraws are just slow. With approximate 020 it's massively slower so to me that implies that it's CPU bound and not so much memory speed bound.

Given the emulated system/RTG memory bandwidth available, even if the emulator is wasting a lot of cycles and moving byte by byte, I'd expect better. It's not like it's using a chipset screenmode.

There have to be basic design problems that multi-GHz x86 is covering up.

AmigaVision is one way I've been testing because it comes with a few more things, the nightlies are very bare bones.

If you open the System drive In ArosVision, then drag it's position to a new location a few times, it stalls for a second or more every few drags. What can take that long, even with JIT?

I'm not just complaining, I want to know what's happening so that it can be corrected.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2016, 09:47:17 PM »
you wont get an appropriate speed approximation with uae. set it as 040 without jit but not cycle exact to 020 and its slower than you will get on real hw in my case.

btw give me your specs. do you have a drive or some bootable flash cars you can sacrifice to try aros out on your machine just once;)

what concerns wondows redrawing delay it might be fixewd in between, im not sure olaf has updated since then. btw is this on amiga or rtg screen? nightlies are not barebone. you can download contribs as well and merge them in. amiga software and libs you need you will find on the net or on the aminet more specifically. while i admire olafs work its a bit overloaded and not suitable for testing.
 

Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: RTG API replacement - Lets finally do this
« Reply #29 from previous page: May 21, 2016, 11:01:50 PM »
Sure,here:

A4000 D, with and without Mediators
Cyberstorm 060 Mk2 w/scsi or warp engine 040
Radeon and voodoo 3 pci, Picasso II zorro
Pci network and USB
Scsi card readers, lots of various drives