As someone else pointed out earlier, anything you can get away with, can be considered legal. Companies steal from each other on a regular basis, Chinese companies are notoriously known for stealing ideas, code and production methods from the west. In China that is "business as usual". In the US they have no/few issues with stealing from Europe, and patent it there. What is "legal" is _very_ gray.
Are you serious? Are you seriously telling me "because the chinese steal engineering technology, I can steal your software?".
Yes. The courts are still not private enterprises are they?
At least in my country people pay for going to court. It's not a 100% funding, but you have contribute.
Really. So why is there a VPS market? Amazon, Linode, Digital Ocean, Serve The World, Dreamiest etc... all offering cheap server to private users.
And what is the kind of "service" AmigaOs provides? The above provide some kind of IT service to the users. AmigaOs does...?
Yes, that is the AmigaOS I would pay for - the closed source model we have now? Nope, I am not paying anything more for that, I already have paid it up and down umpteen times and has not really moved _anywhere_.
Paid for what? AmigaOs 4.x? Did you pay?
No, I haven't paid for it, but simply because I didn't care for the product. But I haven't stolen their product either and I'm neither trying to argue that I'm allowed to because some chinese steal, too.
Now, apparently, download links like in this thread demonstrate that there is, apparently, still some desire to get updates to Os 3.x. Luckely. Hence, there is some demand. This demand has not been addressed. Are you saying you're not willing to contribute to the classic system because the PPC branch showed to be a dead end (something I said already ten years ago, actually?). In how far can you create an argument from this?
The problem with AmigaOs 4.x is that you cannot create a self-sustaining model - you need to create a completely new platform for a completely new hardware for which no tool chain and no applications exist.
It's quite obvious that this cannot work. You cannot create demand for a non-existing platform for non-existing applications. AmigaOs 4.x and Morphos were not exactly bright ideas.
Well, just to pick some random company... what is Cloanto selling again?
An apparently untested collection of software? Untested because there is probably not enough manpower to get it tested, probably due to lack of funding?
Which you were paid to do, from what I understand, right?
Wrong. My job is to support and create learning environments for students. We work on Linux systems, but we do not mangle with the Linux kernel for any reason. Instead, we pay for distributions that run on certified server hardware. In our case, it's SLES on certified virtual machines.
The only reason why I contributed to Linux is to get a couple of old laptops supported for my own entertainment. Which is fine.
One way or another, you're paid for by the state, so you don't have to run a self-sustaining business. As I already said before, you and me, we're in a luxury position.
You have made it explicitly clear many times, typically in a very patronizing way, that you do not condone any "open source" model for AmigaOS, that it would not work, because... you think it would be a mess.
Look at the mess Linux is right now. Linux is to a major extend driven by the desire of its authors to create "something cool", and not driven by creating a working environment for its customers. Let's have a aook at typical Linux systems:
Grub2: Overly complicated boot manager. Grub legacy worked perfectly. One single file, you could update it with an editor, reboot, you're done. Grub2 solved probably a couple of extra problems only 20% of the users have. Instead, I now need to run a script once I change the configuration. Something which is *less* useful than before, and something I already had to do with lilo. So new useless "cool" functionality for solving problems I do not have at the price of creating an overly complicated and hard to configure system.
cups: Overly complicated, impossible to handle print system. Just trying to setup a printer is a complete headache. There is no single configuration file for a printer you have to put in some directly and then it works - no, there are multiple, and there is a web interface ("how cool!") that allows you to configure printers. Yet, even the most elementary features do not exist. AmigaOs had a requester that popped up if the printer run out of paper, or was offline. With cups, you get nothing. Just a non-working print, with the cause of the problem left to be researched by studing some cryptic log files. Not exactly user friendly. But a "cool programming job".
systemd: Overly complicated startup system that probably makes the system to boot in 10 seconds less, sometimes - but not always - compatible with the init system that worked otherwise perfectly fine, and was trivial to setup and control.
There are many similar problems Linux have, lack of consistency of a "user interface" (wow, graphical interfaces in Linux!), lack of consistent style, multiple parallel solutions for the same simple problem.
Yes, Linux is a mess. This is due to its development model. It is driven by developers, not by users or customers. Wrong approach if you want to create something that is usable for end users. Right approach for computer experts like you and me that run servers as a business.
Right. So you prefer the status quo, which already is a mess, how could it possible become more messy than it already is.
Hold on, I'm actually trying to fix this. And no, I do not prefer the status quo. I prefer a user-centric development. That is, a system with some sort of consistency in its overall design. This is really not the case right now.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with it all being "illegal", right?
How many times have you seen people suggest that there should be a kickstarter to pay out the Amiga OS sources and end the current circus?
I haven't checked and I did not count. But either way: A buyout does not solve the problem. It solves a one-time problem and does not create a continuous stream of income. Neither does it create a business model, or an AmigaOs system that "works". It will probably end in the same situation Linux is in, namely a system that is impossible to setup, impossible to handle, and with no consistency in its interfaces and design.
Anyhow, that's just my thinking. I don't have to decide in first place.
Remember the A1200 case kickstarter? That was people who together was willing to more than 150 thousand euros for plastic cases and merch.
Sure, because you cannot steal hardware. Yet, you're announcing that it's ok to steal software. Now, how exactly is this helpful?
I believe parts of the wishful thinking of Hyperion and friends was to lock the system to the hardware, and create enough income by selling hardware to fund the software. Now, that worked just brilliant... by creating just another "Amiga"-Os.
And with the current "model of business", we are guaranteed that there never, or very rarely, will be _new_ people who can learn and take part. The Amiga community is nowadays literally dying. Of old age.
Why do you believe so? I don't see a problem inviting people to participate, and probably even pay them - even though it's likely only a small symbolic amount.
The problem is really that I believe that in the end, somebody "has to wear the hat" and give the project a direction. Not even me. I had no problem with Os 3.9 and H&P taking this position. I was not always happy with their decisions (for example, Heinz' NSD was an outright stupid thing, and the ROM-Updates wasn't brilliant either, but who am I to decide?). But at least, there was some kind of a plan.
Something Linux lacks, and which creates exactly the sort of problems I noted above.
How much revenue does AmigaOS generate today? Enough? Or is it mostly "a hobby", a side project, for the companies involved too?
Something between not enough and non at all. I don't know. The problem is that "AmigaOs" currently solves problems nobody has, and creates problems instead for everybody else. As I already noted above, it was and is all the wrong direction in first place if you ask me.
How do you consider the Haiku community?
http://www.haiku-inc.org/donations-analysis.php
No, I haven't looked into this, sorry.
But as you mention it - is it not true that _most_ Linux distributions, are aimed at the private user, and _not_ enterprise users? For example ElementaryOS. For example Mint. Both receiving donations from their private users.
And, typically, overburden the average user... Yes. No, thanks, I don't need such a system. A computer should be easy to use.
I've lots of things to say about Apple, and I really don't like them as a company, but *one* thing they got right: A usable system.
Probably not for me, I'm a computer freak. But I'm talking about the average end user.
