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AuthorTopic: AmigaOS 3.x improvements  (Read 4263 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2015, 04:25:58 PM »
Quote from: itix;796222
Are you using 3.1 or 3.9? If 3.9, I think it is related to Workbench. Icon.library does not care about icon type, really.

I just did a test - it works perfectly as I want in OS 3.1.

* I booted from Workbench3.1 in DF0: and have Extras3.1 in DF1:
* I copy WBStartup from Workbench3.1 to RAM Disk by pulling it over
* I rename WBStartup in RAM Disk to "Project"
* I open IconEdit from Extras3.1:Tools, I open RAM:Project.info
* I go to "Type" menu and set it to "Project", I save the icon and exit IconEdit
* I double click the Project icon in RAM Disk
  - Screen flashes and the screen bar says "The icon(s) have no default tool"
* I click "Project", and open Information, sets "Default Tool:" to "Multiview".
* Again I double click the Project icon in RAM Disk
  - Multiview opens and shows content of "RAM Disk:Project" - as I expected.

At some point on the way from OS3.1 to 3.9 this behavior vanished.

EDIT: Correction - it works by doing a work-around suggested by Peter K - rename the drawer from shell, set type of icon (that now lacks a corresponding drawer) to project, give it a default tool, rename the drawer back in the shell. Presto, it works!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 04:39:37 PM by kolla »
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Offline matthey

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2015, 04:37:26 PM »
Quote from: kolla;796237
It is not at all obvious that all this information is stored in RAM:Disk.info and that users are expected to copy Disk.info to ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info manually.

It could just automatically be saved in ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info by ram-handler, in fact RAM:Disk.info would not even need to exist at all.

It is also inconsistent with the way default icons work and requires special handling for one exception to save the  ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info every time the ram disk icon changes. These default icons in ENVARC:Sys can apply to many icons. It should be possible to have other units of ram disk which would use the same default icon. Maybe it would be possible to allow ENVARC:Sys/RAM.info to represent a particular icon device but it would still require some special handling to save and snapshot to it. It might end up being the OS performing MakeLink functionality for the icon. This could work for other icons like iconified application icons and perhaps FTPMount's active icon but I see little advantage for the work needed, larger code size and likely slow down needed (probably in workbench.library). If you want to snapshot your ram disk icon often or in different places and want it to survive reboots, MakeLink is simple and probably a good option for you.
 

Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2015, 05:05:14 PM »
Well, before MakeLink can work, the underlying filesystem must support it. I do not know ThoR's background for suddenly supporting soft links on RAM: with newer ram-handler, but I sure knew what to do with it.

My main point is that changes to RAM Disk icon should survive reboots - one way would be for the handler to take care of it. Wether it uses ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info or something else is not important.
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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2015, 05:49:26 PM »
Funny legacy feature that maybe not everyone is aware of - even OS3.9 kickstart respects DEVS:system-configuration from back in 1.x days. If you have the Preferences programs from WB1.3 for example, you can configure crazy colors, interlaced modus, funny mouse pointer etc and have all that configured long before IPrefs, even when booting without startup-sequence.

Sadly, OS 1.3 Preferences easily crash on newer systems, so I booted back to 1.3.4 and with 1.3 kickstart to create the prefs, then switched back to my 3.9 setup, inserted the WB 1.3.4 WB floppy, copied over df0:devs/system-configuration to DEVS:, removed floppy and booted without startup-sequence. :laughing:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2015, 06:21:57 PM »
Quote from: kolla;796238
I just did a test - it works perfectly as I want in OS 3.1.

* I booted from Workbench3.1 in DF0: and have Extras3.1 in DF1:
* I copy WBStartup from Workbench3.1 to RAM Disk by pulling it over
* I rename WBStartup in RAM Disk to "Project"
* I open IconEdit from Extras3.1:Tools, I open RAM:Project.info
* I go to "Type" menu and set it to "Project", I save the icon and exit IconEdit
* I double click the Project icon in RAM Disk
  - Screen flashes and the screen bar says "The icon(s) have no default tool"
* I click "Project", and open Information, sets "Default Tool:" to "Multiview".
* Again I double click the Project icon in RAM Disk
  - Multiview opens and shows content of "RAM Disk:Project" - as I expected.

At some point on the way from OS3.1 to 3.9 this behavior vanished.

This turns out to be not true - it works just as well with 3.9BB2 as with 3.1.
I just tried with last official icon.library from BB1 (45.1, 8.Feb.2001), and with that installed it behaves just like in OS3.1 - yay! :)

The problem is solely due to PeterK's icon.library which I must have started using at some point very early on. I also noticed this does not work in MorphOS.
Also, PeterK admits on EAB that it is a feature in his icon.library, or as I see it, a compatibility blunder that has has had me confused for years!

MIST is great for having a whole load of setup to test this stuff with, hehe :D
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 06:31:42 PM by kolla »
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---
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A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline paul1981

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2015, 06:42:08 PM »
Quote from: kolla;796237
Every time you change icon.
Every time you move the icon to somewhere and snapshot it.
Every time you tell Workbench to remember the position and view of open RAM Disk window.

It is not at all obvious that all this information is stored in RAM:Disk.info and that users are expected to copy Disk.info to ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info manually.

It could just automatically be saved in ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info by ram-handler, in fact RAM:Disk.info would not even need to exist at all.


I use 3.1 with MultiCX, and IIRC the WINREMEMBER tooltype or similar remembers the position of windows within the session. So obviously this doesn't survive reboots, but still a nice feature.

Instead of the link for the ram disk icon, I suppose it would be possible to write a script that automatically copies over the disk.info if it changes, either from referring to datestamp or a file change, or even easier just make it copy every so often, or just write the script to copy it and have it executable from the tools menu or something.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2015, 06:57:59 PM »
Quote from: kolla;796203
The icon of Ram Disk:

This is ThoR realm - Ram-Handler has been updated and improved, ...

Unfortunately, no. The Ram-Handler of 3.9 was done by Heinz, not me.
 

Offline itix

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2015, 07:01:39 PM »
Quote from: kolla;796241
Well, before MakeLink can work, the underlying filesystem must support it. I do not know ThoR's background for suddenly supporting soft links on RAM: with newer ram-handler, but I sure knew what to do with it.

My main point is that changes to RAM Disk icon should survive reboots - one way would be for the handler to take care of it. Wether it uses ENVARC:Sys/def_RAM.info or something else is not important.

It is important. What if you have read-only media and you want to change its icon position permanently? Or a volume without icon?

RAM disk solution would be one shot fix for one case but what about other cases?
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2015, 02:12:15 AM »
Quote from: paul1981;796246
I use 3.1 with MultiCX, and IIRC the WINREMEMBER tooltype or similar remembers the position of windows within the session. So obviously this doesn't survive reboots, but still a nice feature.

Instead of the link for the ram disk icon, I suppose it would be possible to write a script that automatically copies over the disk.info if it changes, either from referring to datestamp or a file change, or even easier just make it copy every so often, or just write the script to copy it and have it executable from the tools menu or something.


There are background daemons on Aminet that does this, people waist CPU cycles on running dedicated process to monitor RAM:Disk.info to copy it back to envarc: or S: or wherever. There are scripts that run in loops, there are all kinds of work-arounds - but that is all they are - work-arounds. RAM Disk is part of the OS, dealing with the icon is also part of the OS - RAM Disk is special, it is different, it should be dealt with by the OS without the need for third party work-arounds.

As for surviving the "session" until next boot - isn't that default behavior?
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A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2015, 02:15:39 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;796248
Unfortunately, no. The Ram-Handler of 3.9 was done by Heinz, not me.


Aha, ok, I see. http://se.aminet.net/util/boot/PatchRAM.readme looks very much like you, Heinz is not even mentioned.
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---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
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A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
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CDTV
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Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2015, 02:27:06 AM »
Quote from: itix;796249
It is important. What if you have read-only media and you want to change its icon position permanently? Or a volume without icon?

RAM disk solution would be one shot fix for one case but what about other cases?


What about them? RAM Disk is the obvious one, since it affects everyone. You could have Deficons itself take care of everything, storing meta data normally stored in Disk.info files somewhere else for all kinds of volumes and devices, keeping def_icons.info files clean for all meta data - but you would still need somewhere to write that information down for it to survive reboots. You could have ENVARC: in nonvolatile RAM if you want to. I really don't understand your argument - because fixing icon handling for RAM Disk would not be a general solution also working for CD drives, it is better to not fix it at all?
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---
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CDTV
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2015, 07:02:20 AM »
My wishlist add?  Transparent background option for Amidock.  :biglaugh:
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Offline itix

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2015, 07:14:15 AM »
Quote from: kolla;796284
I really don't understand your argument - because fixing icon handling for RAM Disk would not be a general solution also working for CD drives, it is better to not fix it at all?

Because in the software industry you don't do shortsighted "fixes" and workarounds. You have to look at a bigger picture.

Developer should find a solution that fixes RAM disk and CD drives and other RO/temp drives in general.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline kolla

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2015, 09:49:41 AM »
Quote from: itix;796301
Because in the software industry you don't do shortsighted "fixes" and workarounds. You have to look at a bigger picture.

Developer should find a solution that fixes RAM disk and CD drives and other RO/temp drives in general.


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Software industry? :)
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---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
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A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
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Offline itix

Re: AmigaOS 3.x improvements
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2015, 09:54:19 AM »
Quote from: kolla;796308
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Software industry? :)


Of course it is a joke in Amiga land.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook