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AuthorTopic: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...  (Read 652 times)

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Offline slaapliedje

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Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« on: September 22, 2015, 02:35:46 AM »
Turned on my Amiga 4000D today to try to get my new mouse to work (the new one from Amigakit that is optical) and this horrible electronic smell.  

The Indivision AGA splash screen shows on the monitor, but the kickstart that I'm usually welcomed with (I have the noIDE and the drive generally takes a bit to boot up) doesn't show.  So at least there's that.

I realize that I'm most likely going to have to go through each component and remove it to see if I can get at least a kickstart boot, but anyone have any hints on what it could be based on that information?

slaapliedje
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 02:40:54 AM »
A4000D, I'd immediately check the power connector where it plugs into the motherboard.  Common problem.

Edit - that probably would also stop the Indivision screen, also, though.  Unless it's powered in some funky way.  Hummm...
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline agami

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 02:50:18 AM »
Just a black screen?
Try it without the Indivision.
Get the motherboard out and get your nose right down into it. Scan methodically from one side to another, top to bottom.
Has the motherboard been re-caped?
Get it down to basics; no Mediator, 2MB chip RAM only.
Is it still running on the original Commodore PSU?
---------------AGA Collection---------------
1) Amiga A4000 040 40MHz, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative PCI128, Fast Ethernet, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
2) Amiga A1200 040 25MHz, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, IDEfix, PCMCIA WiFi, slim slot load DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
3) Amiga CD32 + SX1, OS 3.1
 

Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 02:52:04 AM »
Wow, never seen this happen in the 32 years I've used computers.
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 02:55:34 AM »
Quote from: agami;796085
Just a black screen?
Try it without the Indivision.
Get the motherboard out and get your nose right down into it. Scan methodically from one side to another, top to bottom.
Has the motherboard been re-caped?
Get it down to basics; no Mediator, 2MB chip RAM only.
Is it still running on the original Commodore PSU?

Started the process off, unplugged everything, pulled out the FastATA board, sniffed, was fine.  Sniffed in on the right hand side of the mediator, and that's where it smelled the strongest, then pulled out the memory board from the Cyberstorm and... not sure if you can see it in that picture very well, but that blackened chip is bubbled up and split in the middle.

Going to reconfigure the Cyberstorm back to 64MB of memory and try booting it again.

To answer your questions, yes it was recapped,. and it is using the original PSU.  Gonna sniff it some more after removing the memory stick.

slaapliedje
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 03:06:06 AM by slaapliedje »
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline agami

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 03:15:48 AM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;796086
Wow, never seen this happen in the 32 years I've used computers.


I have. Only once. On an mega-expanded Amiga 1200.
---------------AGA Collection---------------
1) Amiga A4000 040 40MHz, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative PCI128, Fast Ethernet, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
2) Amiga A1200 040 25MHz, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, IDEfix, PCMCIA WiFi, slim slot load DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
3) Amiga CD32 + SX1, OS 3.1
 

Offline agami

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 03:34:29 AM »
To all operators of an A4000 Desktop configuration.
The original Commodore integrated 150W PSU is built using late '80s/early '90s PSU knowledge and has also been procured with latter-day Commodore frugality.

You might think that the A4000 engineers took this into account when constructing the motherboard/daughterboard/expansions and made them that little-bit more resilient. That might be the case. But none of them envisioned that the A4000D with the original PSU would be running anything in 2015.

I can't emphasise the importance of a good power supply enough. To quote that guy from Apollo 13 "Power is everything".
I recommend you replace the old inefficient (by design and by age) PSU with a more modern SFX of TFX form factor PSU. Both use modern PSU designs that operated at higher levels of current supply efficiency and run much cooler and quieter. Both can be integrated into an A4000D case and connect to the the motherboard with the low cost Amiga 4000 ATX PSU adapter + switch.

Especially if you are running high end CPU cards and a Mediator with PCI cards, but also if you are just running a pure vanilla, unadulterated, classic Amiga A4000/0x0 with only classic Zorro expansion boards. Protect your investment in nostalgic computing glory.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 03:37:16 AM by agami »
---------------AGA Collection---------------
1) Amiga A4000 040 40MHz, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative PCI128, Fast Ethernet, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
2) Amiga A1200 040 25MHz, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, IDEfix, PCMCIA WiFi, slim slot load DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
3) Amiga CD32 + SX1, OS 3.1
 

Offline mechy

Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 04:29:34 AM »
Quote from: agami;796089
To all operators of an A4000 Desktop configuration.
The original Commodore integrated 150W PSU is built using late '80s/early '90s PSU knowledge and has also been procured with latter-day Commodore frugality.

You might think that the A4000 engineers took this into account when constructing the motherboard/daughterboard/expansions and made them that little-bit more resilient. That might be the case. But none of them envisioned that the A4000D with the original PSU would be running anything in 2015.

I can't emphasise the importance of a good power supply enough. To quote that guy from Apollo 13 "Power is everything".
I recommend you replace the old inefficient (by design and by age) PSU with a more modern SFX of TFX form factor PSU. Both use modern PSU designs that operated at higher levels of current supply efficiency and run much cooler and quieter. Both can be integrated into an A4000D case and connect to the the motherboard with the low cost Amiga 4000 ATX PSU adapter + switch.

Especially if you are running high end CPU cards and a Mediator with PCI cards, but also if you are just running a pure vanilla, unadulterated, classic Amiga A4000/0x0 with only classic Zorro expansion boards. Protect your investment in nostalgic computing glory.

Nonsense, there is nothing wrong with the design or function of the original 4000 psu's.they are standard switching supply design used in most pc psu's. Only improvement in atx and such is if you go 80+ certified for a better powerfactor.-and those are counterfeited also in many cheaper ones..Although i prefer the skynet (easier to recap)design,the liteon ones are also ok,as a matter of fact there is quite a bit of filtering on the high voltage side of the liteon as well as mov's for surge protection.  Most of these psu's will run many more years if you recap them.

I have seen way more junk atx,miniatx,with horrid designs and missing any input protections.

In almost all cases the 150w a4000 psu will run decked out mediator setups with no problem if recapped. Its a true 150watts,notice the 5v rail which is what the amiga really loads down is weak on many atx,as a matter of fact most modern psu's concentrate on 12v and 3.3v now. i cant count the atx psu's i've seen with 5v poorly regulated and showing as low as 4.85v.
 

Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 04:57:59 AM »
For the record, the PSU is fine.  The memory module I posted was on the Cyberstorm MK1, I was looking the other day into finding a PPC board... I think it knew... After pulling it out and re-configuring the memory on the board to 64mb, it did the same thing.  But after pulling the whole board out and putting in the A3640, it booted into the kickstart config screen.

Weird thing is, invidision posts image, then black screen, but the reset (control+A+A) still works, as does the capslock.  I've tried it without the memory module and with.  Still no such luck.  

slaapliedje
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 05:27:22 AM »
Wait, it burned up a second module after the first one?  Guess you have a toasted accelerator board.  That suuucks.  :(  Stachu?
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 05:38:46 AM »
Nah, I only see the one that is physically burned, but yeah even without the memory board installed, it doesn't boot, so it sure does sound like the accelerator board died.  Anyone know of a good place to get it repaired (assuming it can be?)

slaapliedje

Derp, you mentioned Stachu.  I'll see if I can track him down.
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline agami

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 07:29:40 AM »
Quote from: mechy;796091
Nonsense, there is nothing wrong with the design or function of the original 4000 psu's....
I don't disagree with you. When the A4000 was designed it was a standard, if low cost PSU for the time. It's not like Commodore were breaking new ground with amazing PSU tech.

And I agree with the recapping of the original PSU and while you're at it, putting in a quieter fan.
I just found it a lot easier to put in a modern, manufactured in this century, high quality PSU. Only a few OEMs make a SFX and/or TFX PSU and they are reputable brands and the PSUs are generally of the 80+ certified variety, and run extremely quiet.

Whilst it is true that ATX PSUs do place more focus on 12V, the 80+ have solid 5V performance.

You clearly agree that good clean power is important. You can get it by improving the original A4000 PSU or by getting a brand spanking new SFF PSU.

Quote from: slaapliedje;796093
For the record, the PSU is fine...
I wasn't implying that your PSU was dead. What on first glance is a regular running PSU can still be a culprit for many things that go wrong with one's rig.

I'm not saying you must buy a new PSU. But I would at the very least recap it as per mechy's inclination.
---------------AGA Collection---------------
1) Amiga A4000 040 40MHz, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative PCI128, Fast Ethernet, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
2) Amiga A1200 040 25MHz, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, IDEfix, PCMCIA WiFi, slim slot load DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
3) Amiga CD32 + SX1, OS 3.1
 

guest11527

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 07:57:00 AM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;796095
Nah, I only see the one that is physically burned, but yeah even without the memory board installed, it doesn't boot, so it sure does sound like the accelerator board died.

Is this probably a 3.3v memory module designed for the PC run at 5V in the Amiga? This would explain the problem. Most of the 3.3v modules do accept 5V, at least for some time, until they die from the high voltage.
 

guest11527

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Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 08:00:57 AM »
Quote from: mechy;796091
In almost all cases the 150w a4000 psu will run decked out mediator setups with no problem if recapped. Its a true 150watts,notice the 5v rail which is what the amiga really loads down is weak on many atx,as a matter of fact most modern psu's concentrate on 12v and 3.3v now. i cant count the atx psu's i've seen with 5v poorly regulated and showing as low as 4.85v.

As you say, the main problem with ATX power supplies is that they are designed to provide the main power on the 12V rail, and not on the 5V rail as required by the Amiga. Thus, if you don't draw power from 12V, the 5V supply will break down because its regulation depends on how much current goes over the "main rail" which is 12V. Thus, it's not advisable to replace the Amiga supply with an "off the shelf" PC product. Better get the Amiga supply repaired. There's no high-tech in it, all standard components, but "high voltage", so please: "Hands off, Hobbyists!" Leave this to a trained professional or you could burn down more than just the PSU.
 

Offline orange

Re: Nooo, strong electronic burning smell...
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 10:18:58 AM »
sorry to intrude, does anyone have capacitors list for A4000 PSU?
Better sorry than worry.