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AuthorTopic: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?  (Read 5367 times)

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Offline Duce

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Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2015, 03:45:04 AM »
I'd rather have a more sparse, bare bones OS like OS4 and have the option of adding programs to do things rather than have it built into the OS.

Virtually everything you suggested there Kamelito, I'd never use, it'd be more bloat added to OS4.  There's add on programs that do most of that stuff if you wanted it, and all without bloating out a trim, lean little OS.  Never understood why people want things more complex than they need to be, especially when add on apps are widely available for those that really love to tweak.  I like the fact my SAM boots up from cold to usable status in about 4 seconds - piling more crap onto the OS would hurt that somewhat.  There's very little in the way of eye candy or added functionality that a person couldn't add themselves via a simple OS4 Depot or Aminet download, so why clutter up the core OS?

Designers taking liberties to make an OS "Modern" and doing the old "people don't know what they want, so we'll just do this and SHOW THEM what a MODERN OS IS!" has been done.  Repeatedly, and it's always failed.  See Windows Vista and Windows 8, lol.  When you try and do everything, you end up doing nothing well.

Then again, I'm a pretty basic OS4 user.  Outside of a DirOpus and CED icon on the WB screen, my desktop is bare.  I even get rid of the default installed dock and just live in a CLI window.  People like OS4 because of the lean simplicity, imo.

You effectively just described Windows with your "modern features list".
 

Offline F1Lupo

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2015, 05:13:29 AM »
I've always loved the standard WB mainly because I can set it up whichever way I can possibly imagine:)
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Offline mbrantley

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 05:58:00 AM »
Yes, I love Workbench and would not like to see it replaced or drastically changed. Some updating is ok with me, especially if new workings can be turned off to be more traditional like I like my Amiga. For example, in the newest AmigaOS versions screens can be dragged in any direction if desired, but I prefer the traditional Amiga way of one direction only so limit it to that in the settings. Also, I don't run AmiDock at all -- preferring a simple Workbench. I use addmenu by Alex C. to add Workbench menus for launching frequently used programs (akin to the old Tools Daemon).

That said, must admit DOpus 5 has some nice features. Rather than replacing Workbench with it, I have a dual display setup with my X1000 and run Workbench on the left monitor and DOpus on the right. Suits me.... best of both worlds, and there's good old Workbench. Not being Windows-like. Hehe.
 

Offline trekiej

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2015, 06:17:01 AM »
Is Workbench modular enough to add to it without making great changes?
How far along is Aros 68K?
edit:
I would admit that having a new window to open up each time can be aggravating.
The icons still do not stay put, unless that has been fixed.
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Offline mbrantley

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2015, 06:42:49 AM »
Icons and windows do indeed stay put how you arrange them -- if you snapshop them. That's the Amiga way. The way the universe should be. Hehe. Anything else means corruption by the Windows way has settled in.
 

Offline olsen

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2015, 08:16:45 AM »
Quote from: Duce;790243
I'd rather have a more sparse, bare bones OS like OS4 and have the option of adding programs to do things rather than have it built into the OS.

Virtually everything you suggested there Kamelito, I'd never use, it'd be more bloat added to OS4.  There's add on programs that do most of that stuff if you wanted it, and all without bloating out a trim, lean little OS.
Now that you mention lean, I'd like to point out that the current Workbench is about as far away from that goal as you can possibly get whilst at the same time giving the appearance of offering a restricted set of functionality. It may seem simple and bare-bones, but not by design, only by accident.

Workbench today is built upon code which reaches back to 1985, when it was created under great pressure. That code was overhauled in 1989/1990, reworked in 1998/1999 and has seen numerous changes over the following decade. What did not change in all this time is the basic architecture, which very much restricts what changes are possible in the first place. At its heart the Workbench today is still very much the same thing at it was 30 years ago. What Workbench does today ought to be done with less effort and resources spent: the results should be reflected in how they came about.

I tried my best back in 1998/1999 to open up the Workbench APIs, rework the input and refresh logic, allow for operations to run in parallel, but there was only so much you could do. Workbench is like the world's biggest ball of twine, except when you pull hard on the twine, the ball doesn't unravel, it actually pulls you back with twice the force.
 

Offline Duce

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Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2015, 09:39:49 AM »
Very interesting read, and yeah - I always wondered what sort of mess there was internally in OS4 despite the speedy and fairly lean user and performance side us general grunts see with daily use.  Sometimes you can put lipstick on a pig, as they say.

A friend I used to work with used to call such things as "A ball of spagetti, held together with about 3000 of those little tiny band aids".
 

Offline trekiej

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2015, 04:12:27 PM »
It appears to me that icons do not stay after snapshot. Unless I missed something.
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Offline eliyahu

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2015, 04:52:13 PM »
@trekej

really? i've never had that problem, either on AOS3 or AOS4. snapshot always works for me. oh, and fyi, if you hold down the right-amiga key when you double-click on a drawer, the parent window will close when it opens a new window.

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Offline paul1981

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2015, 05:14:35 PM »
Quote from: trekiej;790269
It appears to me that icons do not stay after snapshot. Unless I missed something.


I've never used OS4, but if this was OS3 or 2 even, then what you're describing is files with no icon image (no associated .info file). Files with no icons cannot be snapshotted as they don't have a real icon in which to save its position. In this case the Workbench uses the default icons depending on the file's type (tool, project, drawer or even disk).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 05:17:05 PM by paul1981 »
 

Offline trekiej

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2015, 05:47:59 PM »
Sorry, I can not really remember the situation. The Workbench icons do not seem to be aligned, I guess after booting or rebooting. Maybe I just can not remember this very well. It may have been fixed since then. Maybe I am still asleep. :)
I did not now about the Right-Amiga double click. The way Aros can go back up with the Arrow is good for me.
I would like to get documentation on the Amiga OS.
Wikipedia, I believe,talked about the modularity of Amiga OS.
This could be why there was some cool add-ons for the Amiga.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 05:53:18 PM by trekiej »
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Offline F1Lupo

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2015, 12:53:12 AM »
Quote from: mbrantley;790252
Icons and windows do indeed stay put how you arrange them -- if you snapshop them. That's the Amiga way. The way the universe should be. Hehe. Anything else means corruption by the Windows way has settled in.

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Offline slaapliedje

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Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2015, 05:25:54 AM »
So all this talk about how the folders open up new windows, etc reminds me of the Nautilus Spatial feature that the Gnome developers tried to release at some point in time.

https://people.gnome.org/~bmsmith/build/nautilus-spatial-mode.html

When it first appeared, I was thinking "sweet, it works just like the Amiga!"  but there was so much fallout from that feature being default, they changed it from that to an option.  Then they removed it entirely when they rewrote nautilus for Gnome 3.  I was kind of sad to see it go.

These are some of the features that kamelito asked for, they're all in Nautilus, explorer, dolphin, etc.  I say leave the Amiga the way it is :D

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Offline Lurch

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Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2015, 06:06:04 AM »
Quote from: Matt_H;790179
MorphOS can be configured to be very OS3.x-like, and that's how I've got my system configured. The only thing I really miss is that not all of the traditional menu options are available in the pull down menus. They are in the context menus, though.


Spent a long time tweaking and changing things but couldn't quite get it to feel like an Amiga. The butterfly doesn't help, miss my boing ball ;-)

The bones of MorphOS is good however, hardware support is better than AmigaOS 4.X. The developers are quicker to release updates and work on driver support. Heck even my 9800pro card works with it on my Pegasos II board.

Warp3d on AmigaOS 4.X is starting to make some improvements but they have side stepped some older hardware, come on support a the 9800pro!!

Hoping for some OS3 love with the warp drivers so I can finally ditch my Voodoo 5 and use the 9200 for more than just a RAM card.

Anyway back OT. Don't go changing the GUI :-)
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: AmigaOS 4.x WB official replacement why not?
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2015, 08:18:44 AM »
Quote from: trekiej;790272
Sorry, I can not really remember the situation. The Workbench icons do not seem to be aligned, I guess after booting or rebooting. Maybe I just can not remember this very well. It may have been fixed since then. Maybe I am still asleep. :)

You say you want them "aligned", or to stay in one place?  This is two different things.  Also older versions of Workbench lacked some of the features of newer.  Try MagicMenu, I think it adds even more options.  But you can definitely do align,  you can even change to something like "show all files" "view by name" (instead of by icon) and snapshot the directory to always display that way.  Only hard one is getting the AppIcons to stay in place, because those need to be snapshotted in their original drawer, not in their position on the Workbench.  Fun stuff!  :)
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