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AuthorTopic: Layers.library V45 on the aminet  (Read 38676 times)

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Offline ssolie

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2014, 07:35:50 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;768383
With the kind permission from Hyperion, I recently uploaded the V45 version of layers.library to aminet.

Ah, I see you finally obtained permission. I was beginning to wonder... ;)

@all
Thomas Richter has made many essential contributions both in the Amiga operating system and via 3rd party contributions. I have stumbled upon his excellent work in many OS components while working on the source code. I think all Amiga fans should thank him for his pioneering efforts.

You can see his name and many others listed on the credits page. If you know of any names that are missing then please let us know via the contact page.
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Offline tolkien

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2014, 08:45:05 PM »
I have tried to use It with LoadModule LIBS:layers.library but when I insert It in my S-S the script stops.
I have other libraries loaded with Loadmodule with no errors. Perhaps I have added a lot of them? cant understand the error but will try this week again.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2014, 11:15:08 PM »
Quote from: tolkien;768478
I have tried to use It with LoadModule LIBS:layers.library but when I insert It in my S-S the script stops.

Most likely and most certainly a typo. This is because LoadModule is the suggested (and tested) way of inserting the library. In case of doubt, post your S-S here.  Note again: If you use Cgfx, you *must* use LayersAntiHack in the S-S to prevent it from patching layers. Unnecessary, because everything Cgfx requires to run fast is already in V45, thus no need to do anything there.  If you are using P96, just rename or delete LIBS:Picasso96/fastlayers.library (P96 was implemented in a more forward-looking, future proof way). The fastlayers.library installs patches into layers similar to that of CGfx, and as above, the corresponding code is already part of layers V45. V45 is "rtg.friendly".  For those that want to know: Unlike earlier versions, V45 allocates the layers backing store from graphics card memory if the layer is on an rtg screen - and not from chip memory.   This is not the only modification, but one of the most important ones.  Once again: Os 4 and above already have that code (plus more!), so you won't miss anything there.
 

Offline Jose

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2014, 11:50:47 PM »
Thanks
\\"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up\\"
 

Offline stefcep2

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2014, 12:01:39 PM »
Excuse me, but I have CGX 4 rev 6.  Why should I use this replacement library?
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2014, 01:03:18 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;768500
Excuse me, but I have CGX 4 rev 6.  Why should I use this replacement library?

I don't know why you should. I'm making an offer. Probably you start with the Readme, because it answers a couple of questions what is wrong with V40 layers.

To keep it very short, besides the new functions, it is much more efficient when depth-arringing windows. V40 had an algorithm that scaled like O(n^2) in the number of overlapping windows, V45 is only O(n). Given CPU driven memory copies in some situations on rtg, this makes a noticable difference. V40 also throws fragmentation bombs at the memory system by allocating and releasing many temporary structures. V45 pools them and reuses them.

But, whatever, it's your choice. Read the docs, make up your mind. Probably you find one or another use for the new functions, too - I don't know. As I already said, this is just a left-over from a Os 4 development I completed enough to make it function, but which was extended for Os 4 again. It's a development snapshot.
 

Offline stefcep2

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2014, 01:20:35 PM »
@Thomas I don't mean to be not appreciative of your work.  From the thread I didn't know the difference.  In a nutshell V45 should be more memory efficient and faster, with some new functions?
 

Offline Ancalimon

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2014, 01:29:20 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;768504
@Thomas I don't mean to be not appreciative of your work.  From the thread I didn't know the difference.  In a nutshell V45 should be more memory efficient and faster, with some new functions?

That's what I understood. Using the new layers.library instead of the old one in the rom with Cybergrphx patch, we can expect less memory fragments and faster performance when windows overlap each other.

Thanks! ;)
A4000T, 604e@400&060@66, 128MB+16MB+Zorram256, CVisionPPC, VLabMotion, Toccata, XSurf100&RapidRoad, Prisma Megamix

A1200, Blizzard060@50, 256MB, Blizzard IV SCSI, FastATA mk4
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2014, 11:33:09 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;768504
@Thomas I don't mean to be not appreciative of your work.
That's all understood. But as said, it's not the new "bright and shiny toy". It is an update that I should have done earlier, that should probably be more complete, that was completed in 4.0, but that does what it does.  
Quote from: stefcep2;768504
From the thread I didn't know the difference.  In a nutshell V45 should be more memory efficient and faster, with some new functions?

That pretty much sums it up.
 

Offline Chain|Q

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2014, 12:28:40 PM »
Hi Thomas, thanks for this release.

It works pretty fine on my AGA/060 machine, it's so fast I could even enable solid window moving in 640x512, 64 colors, with many windows! Very nice.

On the other hand I had slightly different results on my RTG machine. Layers v45 seems to break P96 PIP support (as it's even noted in the release history), which sadly is a huge showstopper on my Amiga 2000 with PicassoIV + PalomaTV. Is there a chance to get a fixed PIP support or some workaround for these systems?

I also noticed that it's incompatible with the old border patch tool Birdie, but admittedly, Birdie is a pretty big hack, so that's OK.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 02:28:22 PM »
Quote from: Chain|Q;768562
On the other hand I had slightly different results on my RTG machine. Layers v45 seems to break P96 PIP support (as it's even noted in the release history), which sadly is a huge showstopper on my Amiga 2000 with PicassoIV + PalomaTV. Is there a chance to get a fixed PIP support or some workaround for these systems?

That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected this, though I could neither test since I don't have a PIV. The only PIP support from P96 I am aware of is the LayerObscured() functionality, which is part of P96, and which should actually not depend on whether layers is V40 or V45. Thus, this means that a) either I got something wrong for the simple layer applications, or b) because PIP support depends on something else I'm not aware of.

I probably do not have time right now to look into this (I'm right now in Sapporo, Japan). Maybe I have short chance of checking this next weekend, but I will unlikely be able to provide any type of fix before August (*sigh*).   In worst case, it will be a patch to P96 to be V45 aware.  Greetings, Thomas
 

Offline Chain|Q

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2014, 04:26:29 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;768573
That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected this, though I could neither test since I don't have a PIV. The only PIP support from P96 I am aware of is the LayerObscured() functionality, which is part of P96, and which should actually not depend on whether layers is V40 or V45. Thus, this means that a) either I got something wrong for the simple layer applications, or b) because PIP support depends on something else I'm not aware of.

Thank you for the quick response. The NOTES/Layers_RelNotes file in the Aminet release states this for version 45.2:
Quote
Found that the P96 rtg.library PIP support depends on the fact that obscured simple refresh layers have at least one dummy cliprect with lobs!=NULL. This is no longer the case for V45 and above. A fix for the rtg.library is available separately [Andrea].
I think this is could be related to my problem, since the PIP shows symptoms like disappearing overlay, and/or overlay not taking window coverage into account (the overlay is always on top), which are clearly layers related. I guess the mentioned rtg.library update which fixes this issue never made it back to 68k... (Or I must have missed it.) Of course, everything works fine with layers v40. When trying v45, I removed LIBS:Picasso96/fastlayers.library from my system as instructed in the Readme.

I can send photos/videos of the problem appearing, if you need that. If you have any patches anytime in the future, I'd be happy to test on my system.
 

Offline matthey

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 05:15:18 PM »
@ChainIQ

Are you using the more recent unofficial P96 libraries?

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Picasso96.htm

These libraries fix some PIP functionality.

@ThoR
Thanks for the release.
 

Offline Chain|Q

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2014, 06:25:06 PM »
@matthey
Quote from: matthey;768585
Are you using the more recent unofficial P96 libraries? (...) These libraries fix some PIP functionality.
No, I didn't try these, however the archive on that page doesn't upgrade rtg.library, which is said to have the problem. BTW, where does the claim comes from about the PIP functionality fixes? I can't seem to find any kind of changelog for versions above 2.0.

In fact, the rtg.library I have installed is slightly newer than the one included in that archive. (I think it comes from some UAE-related update.) But I'll give it a try, one can never know.
 

Offline matthey

Re: Layers.library V45 on the aminet
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2014, 08:14:38 PM »
Quote from: Chain|Q;768592
No, I didn't try these, however the archive on that page doesn't upgrade rtg.library, which is said to have the problem. BTW, where does the claim comes from about the PIP functionality fixes? I can't seem to find any kind of changelog for versions above 2.0.

I am not aware of a changelog. I found the bug fix myself. In the P96Developer.lha (SDK) archive in the examples directory, there is a program called OpenPIP which failed to open. After installing Gulliver's newer P96 libraries, it works for me. The problem was probably in the Picasso96API.library p96PIP_OpenTags() function but I did not investigate the problem further. It's been awhile too.

Quote from: Chain|Q;768592
In fact, the rtg.library I have installed is slightly newer than the one included in that archive. (I think it comes from some UAE-related update.) But I'll give it a try, one can never know.

Does the rtg.library have the same version number (40.3994) but a newer date? If so, I disassembled a version with a newer date and could see that it was patched (Christian Sauer's patch?) in a way that didn't impress me. It looked like a 3rd party patch job. I didn't figure out what the patch was trying to accomplish but Gulliver and I decided it was better to use the earlier dated (but same version) unmolested version if it didn't cause problems for anyone. You can ask Gulliver if there have been any problems since then. You could probably find the discussions on the amiga.org and/or the EAB forums if you search.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=50410
http://aminet.net/driver/video/RTG403994p.readme

I couldn't find the the thread where I talked about disassembling the different rtg.library versions. I don't recall having problems with either of the new 40.3994 versions.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 08:16:42 PM by matthey »