Natami started and stopped again

[wawrzon]

I create my own software, if I need some thing. That my hobby.

Yes but can you name any 68k software that is worth using today?

sounds as if you need to program just everything you are using yourself. what are these incredible programs that surpass all 68k applications in quality, may i ask?

Not tried it, but often when you compare old programs to new programs, there big difference in details, filters and effects, water effects in Autodesk Maya for example, looks real. While we do not have Maya on AmigaOS4. We do have Blender and it can produce decent quality images.

since you apparently dont need amiga backwards compatibility, and claim only to write own programs or use linux ports you really might be better off with any brand of linux where your software is genuinely coming from and where it isnt limited by shortcomings of os of your choice.

well. i guess you know that yourself very well. this means there is no more reasons to use your os as to use amigas or their fpga clones, its a question of sentiment and subjective definitions, so each and every argument you used against amiga and its software may be used against the os of your choice as well.

[OlafS3]

NatAmi is not going to be free, thats for shore, I don't think money is a issue, seeing how much money people have spent on hardware upgrades for Classic Amiga; acceleration cards, graphic cards, and all sort of Clock port exception upgrades. Looking at signature, it looks like some have there own private museum with all models ever created.



AmigaOS has always been playground for hobbyists, shore it has been used in some commercial settings.



AmigaOS4 is a potential replacement for Windows/Linux/Mac, if it was not for Skype and Spotify and a few games, I'm shore there are people who don't need this things, and do manage with just AmigaOS.

I only recently installed Linux, for one thing only, I have managed with out Linux for years.

Most things you don't even need a computer to do this days, with Android tablet, and smart phones.



Some thing for every one.

I would not buy any of the old accellerators or graphic cards because the prices for them are as insane as for your preferred option. I know that some use AmigaOS as replacement for Windows or Mac but I am not interested in it. "Natami" would have been too expensive too because of custom board, the accellerators Gunnar and others are working on are much cheaper because they basically use standard FPGA boards for it. His goal is around 150 EUR so that is much more affordable than X1000 I assume :-). Both are hobbies but I would not be willing to spend thousands of dollars on it. But that has everyone decide for himself. When I mention a program you always write XYZ (only available on Windows or Linux) is newer that it. Yes but most of those programs are not available on AmigaOS too. And even if, they are just ports but then I can also use the programs on Windows or Linux and do not need to buy expensive AmigaOS hardware. Only software that is not available on Windows or Linux might be a reason to use AmigaOS.

[psxphill]

Yes but can you name any 68k software that is worth using today?

Why are you here?
 
 An fpga based amiga better than a minimig would be nice, the fpga arcade is closer to what I want but still misses by a bit.

[ElPolloDiabl]

I look forward to FPS being ported. We never got that on Amiga.

[kickstart]

With all my respetcs to all but... some people defending vaporware, or asking to aeon to be involved into the project, some others wondering if its worth to use 68k sofware today.

I supose that this is just easy speak, if not its silly.

[LiveForIt]

But that has everyone decide for himself. When I mention a program you always write XYZ (only available on Windows or Linux) is newer that it. Yes but most of those programs are not available on AmigaOS too.

For most things there is a way, its a question of does this do what you need it to do.

and even if, they are just ports but then I can also use the programs on Windows or Linux

It depends, what the result is of doing it one way vs the other way, some commercial software we will never have for AmigaOS. But some times there are good open source alteratives.

and do not need to buy expensive AmigaOS hardware.

Well you don't need to, but AmigaOS has its advantages too, besides being notalgic about it.
Never need to reinstall applications after OS upgrade, different way of doing things that can be some times a advantage, not too bloated easy to understand what is going on, no virus and no advertisement in software, no bundled crap included, how the UI works, well there are many more things.

But more impotently its a hobby and some people like to use.

Only software that is not available on Windows or Linux might be a reason to use AmigaOS.

You can do every thing in Windows and Linux and most likely there are better programs to do it, I guess it comes down to being able to do things differently.

Besides I like writing programs for AmigaOS, hard to do that on Windows.

I guess the answers is some thing similar for a MacOS users or Linux user way not use windows, when all the best commercial software is for windows.

[LiveForIt]

Why are you here?

Comment 42, X1000 sales will be some how damaged by NatAMI sales.

I disagree with this, X1000 users like my self, I'm interested in a modern computer with modern software, we X1000 users are more interested in the OS experience.

An fpga based amiga better than a minimig would be nice, the fpga arcade is closer to what I want but still misses by a bit.

I do understand the part of people wanting the authentic experience, perfect audio and video sync, and the right sounds, etc. If I was interested in classic games I buy minimig, don't play a lot of games this days, and so it does not make sense to me.

[wawrzon]

Comment 42, X1000 sales will be some how damaged by NatAMI sales.

I disagree with this, X1000 users like my self, I'm interested in a modern computer with modern software, we X1000 users are more interested in the OS experience.

i cant tell, but but perhaps it is the best if this is actually the case and amiga and os4 fans are two completely different separate groups of people. im fine with that.

[magnetic]

The X1000 is expletive yes, but you get some thing now, instead of waiting for some thing that can never be as good, and by the time NatAMI project is out there will be X9000 I'm shore.

What good is x9000 or x1000 for that matter when there is NO SOFTWARE TO USE? IMO There has beena complete waste of resources in so4 land developing os4 for alien hardware. All time has been wasted on drivers instead of games, cool apps, etc. Should have been Project Moana. If that had happened 5 years ago we would have software not new super powered awesome hardware with almost no software at all. So kind of pointless?

[amigadave]

Comparing Natami, or any FPGA Amiga clone, to the X1000 and AmigaOS4.1.6, or MorphOS3.6, or the latest version of any of the AROS forks, is about as useful as comparing the C64 to Windows 8 running on the latest i7 CPU.  Trying to convince the users of any of these hobby platforms that they are wasting their time and that the platform they have chosen to spend their money and time supporting, and that they enjoy using and maybe developing new or ported software for, is also a waste of time. can very often lead to conflicts in these forums, when one member insults the intelligence, or sanity for another's choice of hobby/retro platform.

It would be better to just stick to the thread topic and leave out comments that attack any other platform choices.  We have read those attacking comments hundreds of times over and over again anyway, so why bother repeating them again.  We all know that any of the currently available Amiga and Amiga inspired OSes and hardware that they run on are far removed from any mainstream platforms, but most of us use one or more of these Amiga and/or Amiga inspired platforms, because we like to use them.

Instead, I suggest that members choose to support the Amiga and Amiga inspired platforms of their choice(s) by pointing out the positive points for each of those platforms, but do it in appropriate threads, or in a way that ties such information to any thread they are posting the information into.

Just a suggestion on how to contribute in a positive way, instead of negative alternatives.

[ElPolloDiabl]

I just should point out that it was a different project that was cancelled. Natami was not re-started.

I checked out some videos of OS4 and MorphOS. Both are okay, but not worth the price yet.

[nicholas]

The remainders of the Natami-Team is basically the team behind apollo core, then one of the former members is now creating a new core on its own (you can read discussions on amigacoding.de), I was member of the team too and have concentrated on Aros Vision after the Natami project ended, some others like Samurai Crow are around and he has said he would help me to improve Aros 68k to make it a perfect replacement for 3.1.).

Natami was a combination of custom hardware and specific core done by one developer and this developer had all rights to it. After this developer officially left I had a couple of email contacts with him and I asked him if he could think about opensourcing it, a couple of weeks later there was the last thing I officially read from him that he would continue with his project on his own with a new name and that was the last thing I have heard of it. Nobody of the team could do anything about it. Today the hardware would be very very old and the Natami board (as every custom solution) would have been very expensive if ever finished. What Gunnar now plans is much promising, affordable and based on new hardware. I was very interested in Natami at that time (in fact it was the reason why I started to be interested in Amiga again) but 2014 I think Natami is past. How Gunnar said, we have everything available now, ECS and AGA implementations (Minimig and the core of FPGA Arcade), free OS and Roms (Aros 68k) and also components that were done at first for Natami (Apollo core and SAGA) so if the persons responsible act together something good could come out of it.

I'd like to see a motherboard in some standard ATX format with Gunnar's Apollo core as the CPU and PCI Express slots with openpci.library support.

Basically a PC with a 68k CPU.

[nicholas]

I just should point out that it was a different project that was cancelled. Natami was not re-started.

I checked out some videos of OS4 and MorphOS. Both are okay, but not worth the price yet.

MorphOS is very much worth the price.

I registered MorphOS v3.1 for 100 quid and then received FIVE major updates free of charge to bring me up to v3.6 currently.

I will continue to receive free updates to major versions of the 3.x series.

What other OS give you that much?

Buy Windows XP and then updates to Vista, then to Win7, Win8, Win 8.1.  how much would that cost you?

Plus MorphOS is free to use for unlimted amount of time for those who are too tight fisted to pay for it, you just have to reboot every 30 minutes.

As for OS4, then I agree with you that the costs is too much.  I run it on a Pegasos II but your only option if you don't want second hand hardware seems to be the $3000 X1000 or various models of low performing SAM mobos.

Project Moana should have been a proper release from Hyperion years ago.

[KimmoK]

...Should have been Project Moana. If that had happened 5 years ago we would have software not new super powered awesome hardware with almost no software at all...

MorphOS started years before AOS4. And they desided to use apple HW because no-one was producing usable PPC motherboards.

But does MorphOS have more SW than AOS4?
I think the "lack of SW" is the same for all Amiga flavours.

For AOS4 there was third parties willing to do HW + finance SW porting, so they have been mainly supporting their HW partners.

And we do not have more affordable HW yet because we have not had enough HW tinkerers to do those cheaper boards.


For 68k flavour: I think it nicely complements the community. If powerfull enoughj 68k cores are made, I think it could be possible to see some NG things ported back to 68k etc. And at the same time, experience in 68k HW designs can one day help to produce those affordable PPC boards as well.

[LiveForIt]

As for OS4, then I agree with you that the costs is too much.

The price of the OS is not that bad considering all the updates that I have gotten for that price.

I run it on a Pegasos II

It was not free when it came first came out, I belive it was priced around the same value as a AmigaONE-XE, when it came out.

Shore you can argue that X1000 hardware is expective, but we don't see it that way, we like to there to be hardware in the future as well, and the only way to do that is support the people who make hardware, that goes for any hardware being made, that also includes NatAMI, MiniMigs, and hardware upgrades for classic Amiga computers.

The fact that El-Box and INDIVIDUAL COMPUTERS, exists today is mostly down to fact that some one buys there products. It does not matter if its classic Amiga we are taking about or NG, in this context. I'm happy Amiga is as live as it is today, I'm happy I can go and buy new stuff from AmigaKIT, and I hope this is will be possible in the future as well.

I see you have donated to support Amiga.org, I'm shore you don't disagree with me.

[OlafS3]

The price of the OS is not that bad considering all the updates that I have gotten for that price.



It was not free when it came first came out, I belive it was priced around the same value as a AmigaONE-XE, when it came out.

Shore you can argue that X1000 hardware is expective, but we don't see it that way, we like to there to be hardware in the future as well, and the only way to do that is support the people who make hardware, that goes for any hardware being made, that also includes NatAMI, MiniMigs, and hardware upgrades for classic Amiga computers.

The fact that El-Box and INDIVIDUAL COMPUTERS, exists today is mostly down to fact that some one buys there products. It does not matter if its classic Amiga we are taking about or NG, in this context. I'm happy Amiga is as live as it is today, I'm happy I can go and buy new stuff from AmigaKIT, and I hope this is will be possible in the future as well.

I see you have donated to support Amiga.org, I'm shore you don't disagree with me.

I have only a problem with your view 68=old/retro and X1000 is new/modern. In fact the FPGA solutions that will be used are very modern (to be precise used in the industry). And Aros 68k includes a number of patches already too, in fact I have not added very much in my distribution. Most changes are desktop-related (Magellan) and replacing Zune with MUI 3.8. So your black/white picture is not true anymore. And in the last three years I really got a good overview of the software base and 68k is by far the biggest (and I do not talk about commercial software that is almost not existing on NG). There are lots of libraries written in assembler for gaming and graphics that are long forgotten and I hope to make them known again. And the huge number of compilers available that not exist as PPC native versions. All successor OSs tried to give life back by making it easier to port applications and games, but after now 20 years (or 10 years MorphOS/AmigaOS) we see that this vastly failed. A new generation of 68k devices directly build on the 68k base offer a much higher chance. That does not mean that people cannot have their fun with their X1000 or used Macs but I prefer a different route and think the "we are the innovative and modern" and there are the "retros, just playing old games" attitude totally wrong.