Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Hollywood MAL AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: Tips on moving to Linux?  (Read 12751 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheMagicM

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2014, 03:20:43 AM »
@stefcep2

As many negatives, I can find 5x the amount of users with a positive experience.  YMMV.

Libre office is not a Linux problem.  Direct that to the correct dev team and not towards Linux.

Your link doesn't work. Fix it, I'm interested in reading it.  Some people don't have the aptitude or willingness to learn something new and stick with the simplest, no matter how archaic.
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline TheMagicM

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 03:33:24 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;761333
Aww, you do care!


Well you are an Amiga user and so far you haven't pissed me off, so, yes I care somewhat.  LOL

Quote
...and with a mass of terrible UI and configuration/dependency issues that occur at random, so it's at best a lateral move.


Really?  That's definitely incorrect.  The only somewhat difficult UI issues I've read or seen is when users try to install a different window manager like Enlightenment or whatever isn't a default wm like Gnome 2/3 etc.


Quote

...where that's still entirely the case if you attempt to do anything other than install pre-configured software from the repository, and occasionally even then, and the cat-calls of "RTFM noob!" are as strong as ever...


Yea that chaps my damn hide about those rtfm comments. Sometimes they are warranted since google does provide much help or even searching said distros forum can provide answers.
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline stefcep2

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2014, 04:01:25 AM »
Quote from: TheMagicM;761335
@stefcep2

As many negatives, I can find 5x the amount of users with a positive experience.  YMMV.

Anectodally?  Its still poor if 1 in 5 are not happy.

Quote
Libre office is not a Linux problem.  Direct that to the correct dev team and not towards Linux.

No-one runs operating systems, they run applications. Its a core app that runs on the Linux platform. It matters.

Quote
Your link doesn't work. Fix it, I'm interested in reading it.

Works here in Chrome on Win 7. Its just the Ubuntu forums, which are just as busy as I remember them.  Clearly it doesn't "just work" for a lot of people out there.

 
Quote
Some people don't have the aptitude or willingness to learn something new and stick with the simplest, no matter how archaic.

That sounds suspiciously like blaming the user for the platform's shortcomings. I remember it well.

I was very open to Linux in 2007.  I tried PCLOS, Ubuntu (Gnome and KDE offshoots), Mandriva, Suse.  Not ONE "just worked".  And all I had was an AMD X2 with motherboard everything.  

The worst were the rolling upgrade OS's-I lost count the number of times I'd shut down for the night, and in the morning...end up being thrown in a CLI because some %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty small update caused some conflict somewhere.
 
How do I fix it?  Oh lucky i dual booted with XP to get online to work it out, WHEN it was possible to do so.  Thats right if you go Linux, keep a Windows machine handy-you'll need it.

I cut my losses in 2011, about the time  Ubuntu went to Unity and dropped support of the version I was running.

The OP needs to hear the good and the bad- and no its not the user's fault either.
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 04:22:09 AM »
Quote from: ral-clan;761263


3. Any tips or good guides on creating a dual boot system?
5. Any tips on creating a Linux partition on a hard drive WITHOUT having to destroy and re-install the XP partition that already exists there (i.e. Swissknife?)?
6. Any complications or pitfalls I need to watch out for on a dual boot system?
7. Are all Linux strains compatible? I don't want to be stuck with a Linux branch that can't run common binaries.
8. In future, will I always need a Windows XP partition to run my legacy Windows XP applications, or is Wine under Linux good enough now?

Read a guide on how to recover the Windows MBR from DOS.

Wine is quite buggy. I have never gotten it to work for games, it did work for MS Office.
I'm getting use to Virtual Box. It took me two days to get a DOS 6.22 install working properly, but it was worth it.
Go Go Gadget Signature!
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2014, 05:08:29 AM »
Quote from: TheMagicM;761335
Libre office is not a Linux problem.  Direct that to the correct dev team and not towards Linux.
A modified form of the "It's Just A Kernel!" argument, which, as ever, is irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether or not it's "part of Linux," it's what Linux users are stuck with. Even if LibreOffice isn't part of Linux per se, it's one of the only alternatives Linux users have to MS Office, and the one most frequently put forward by the Linux community, and it does not cut the mustard - just like the GIMP, just like tons of other shoddily-designed Linux software that the Linux developer community has gotten to a point of "basically feature-complete" and then dropped in the laps of prospective users, because they know Linux needs to have it to draw in users but they don't think it needs to be good, because in the world of Linux the users exist for the benefit of the OS and not the other way around.

Quote
Your link doesn't work. Fix it, I'm interested in reading it.  Some people don't have the aptitude or willingness to learn something new and stick with the simplest, no matter how archaic.
Or, alternatively, some people don't have any patience for putting up with pointless bullshít when there's other alternatives out there that don't demand that of them.

Quote from: TheMagicM;761337
Really?  That's definitely incorrect.  The only  somewhat difficult UI issues I've read or seen is when users try to  install a different window manager like Enlightenment or whatever isn't a  default wm like Gnome 2/3 etc.
If you haven't seen people having serious issues with Linux, you haven't  looked. There are plenty of widely-recognized issues with Linux UI, and  they all spring from the same ultimate source: 1. XWindows only  handles low-level drawing. 2. Since XWindows only handles  low-level drawing, toolkits have to be developed to display UI  components and handle user interaction with them. 3. Anytime  toolkits have to be developed, the Linux developer community will come  up with at least three mutually-incompatible toolkits to accomplish the  exact same thing. 4. Since there are at least three toolkits that  do the same thing, the odds of any two applications using the same  toolkit are no better than 33%. 5. Since the problem encompasses  not merely two applications, but dozens or hundreds, since many other  aspects of UI rely not on the toolkit, but on the programmer, and since  most programmers don't actually care about UI at all except in that it  gets people to use the cool backend code they wrote, 6.  basically nothing behaves consistently with anything  else. Except when you use one of the overblown  multi-application suites developed to address this, in which case there's still plenty of bad design decisions and you lose the consistency anyway when you inevitably need an application that isn't part of the suite.

You can argue all you like that you don't notice this, but that won't change the fact that it's an issue for people who haven't spent twenty years forcibly acclimating themselves to bad UI.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 06:20:34 AM by commodorejohn »
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2014, 05:19:16 AM »
So far no votes for Solaris? Doesn't anybody use that big ball of joy anymore? Tried it, even wrote a paper about it for school many years back. They actually had a list of hardware it would work on, and if you didn't get a system off that list you were SOL, lol. :rtfm:
 
 I think the best thing to come out of Solaris was ZFS.
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline gertsy

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2006
  • Posts: 2303
  • Country: au
  • Total likes: 4
    • http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~gbakker64/
Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2014, 06:17:50 AM »
Quote from: TheMagicM;761324
As soon as I read commodorejohn's first post, I dismissed him, to put it mildly since I'm a moderator, as a ill-informed and .

.


But then as a forum moderator you realised everyone's opinion was just as important and that the choice to dismiss is a personal one, not public.  Least your own view be dismissed in the same vain.
That would be terrible yes?

My view is people use and validate there OS usage based on their aims; Some people want to just run their stuff. Some people want to tinker / customize.  Then there's a spectrum around and between those poles.

I understand exactly where commodore john is coming from.

If you choose Linux and want to do music you're gonna be tinkering quite a bit.
That of course can be fun and rewarding.
 

Offline polyp2000

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2014, 07:16:36 AM »
@commodorejohn have you forgotten what happened last time you started bashing Linux in a thread like this. I think you are entitled to your own opinions but your ugly head seems to rear itself at the very mention of Linux.

Quite frankly I don't know how you managed to have such bad experiences! Your comments may have had some merit 10 years ago. We have heard them all before. Please can you try and tone it down or bite your lips?

The original post has made a decision to try a new OS and was asking for tips. Not to hear the bitter ramblings from the king of Linux hate "commodorejohn"

Offline polyp2000

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2014, 07:44:32 AM »
@commodorejohn have you forgotten what happened last time you started bashing Linux in a thread like this. I think you are entitled to your own opinions but your ugly head seems to rear itself at the very mention of Linux.

Quite frankly I don't know how you managed to have such bad experiences! Your comments may have had some merit 10 years ago. We have heard them all before. Please can you try and tone it down or bite your lips?

The original post has made a decision to try a new OS and was asking for tips. Not to hear the bitter ramblings from the king of Linux hate "commodorejohn"

Offline TheMagicM

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2014, 10:43:36 AM »
Quote from: stefcep2;761338
Works here in Chrome on Win 7. Its just the Ubuntu forums, which are just as busy as I remember them.  Clearly it doesn't "just work" for a lot of people out there.

Oh, then in that case, it works.  Thought you were sending me a specific thread.  http://www.sevenforums.com ...you'll find plenty of Windows issues and thats just one forum.  Windows is riddled with problems.  Not all OS's are perfect, yet I have yet to have issues with Linux.
 
Quote
That sounds suspiciously like blaming the user for the platform's shortcomings. I remember it well.

"Man this truck is kinda loud on the road, I can hear the tires.  Its probably the tread.  Ok, the truck sucks.  Its the tires but I hate the truck.  I'm selling it.  No, not replacing tires.  I'm done with it."   Everyone deals with issues their own way.

Quote
I was very open to Linux in 2007.  I tried PCLOS, Ubuntu (Gnome and KDE offshoots), Mandriva, Suse.  Not ONE "just worked".  And all I had was an AMD X2 with motherboard everything.  

What was that? 2007?  Oh ok.  I thought we were talking about something recent.  

Quote
The worst were the rolling upgrade OS's-I lost count the number of times I'd shut down for the night, and in the morning...end up being thrown in a CLI because some %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty small update caused some conflict somewhere.

Strange because my dad, myself and people I know who use Linux have *never* had anything like that happen.  My dad has had completely different machines every 3 years or so because I just like buying better systems.  No issues.  Dunno why you had yours.  

Quote
The OP needs to hear the good and the bad- and no its not the user's fault either.

I agree.  But I disagree when people start bring back issues from 1990 or because of their own shortcomings or issues they created themselves which caused the problems in the first place.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 11:27:07 AM by TheMagicM »
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline TheMagicM

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2014, 10:45:48 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;761343
So far no votes for Solaris? Doesn't anybody use that big ball of joy anymore? Tried it, even wrote a paper about it for school many years back. They actually had a list of hardware it would work on, and if you didn't get a system off that list you were SOL, lol. :rtfm:
 
 I think the best thing to come out of Solaris was ZFS.


HA!  I  manage 40 servers with Solaris running on it, migrating some sun boxen to T4's as we speak.  I have some VM sessions with Sol running for testing my scripts and ideas to implement at work and my backup NAS at home runs Solaris.  Absolutely love Solaris and ZFS.  BRING IT ON!  LOL!!!
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline TheMagicM

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2014, 10:55:17 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;761345
But then as a forum moderator you realised everyone's opinion was just as important and that the choice to dismiss is a personal one, not public.  Least your own view be dismissed in the same vain.
That would be terrible yes?


If I dismiss someone because they are ill informed, of course, its in my eyes only but I'm sure I'm not the only one.  If someone were to think that of my posts, its fine with me.  We dont have to agree.  We are all entitled to our own opinions, regardless of how ill informed they are.  I'm just adding the correct spin on it when it seems as though anything new other than Amiga and Windows gets bashed by users who havent left their pigeon hole.  Reminds me of the days when this new OS that had some sort of blue butterfly representing it, was released..cut my legs off and call me shorty..those were some big time bashing days.  I forget which OS it was..probably faded into obscurity.  :-)

Quote

My view is people use and validate there OS usage based on their aims; Some people want to just run their stuff. Some people want to tinker / customize.  Then there's a spectrum around and between those poles.

I understand exactly where commodore john is coming from.

If you choose Linux and want to do music you're gonna be tinkering quite a bit.
That of course can be fun and rewarding.


I understood where he was coming from...in 1992.  Maybe I'll go fire up the 'ol DeLorean and head back to the '90s, read his posts and then fully understand.
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline TheMagicM

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 10:57:50 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;761341
A modified form of the "It's Just A Kernel!" argument ...  


Ok.  Then Linux isnt for *you* specifically.  Thats fine.  Just dont ruin other peoples enjoyment of trying something different because of your personal shortcomings.
PowerMac G5 dual 2.0ghz/128meg Radeon/500gb HD/2GB RAM, MorphOS 3.9 registered, user #1900
Powerbook G4 5,6 1.67ghz/2gb RAM, Radeon 9700/250gb hd, MorphOS 3.9 registered #3143
 

Offline TCMSLP

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 11:12:16 AM »
I use Ubuntu; I believe it's the easiest Linux distro for desktop use.  I also hear great things about Mint.

For those unsure about replacement applications:-

Graphics: Gimp (similar to Photoshop) - http://www.gimp.org
Photography: Darktable (similar/better? than Adobe LightRoom, RAW image editing) - http://www.darktable.org
Music Production: Bitwig Studio (made by Ableton devs) - https://www.bitwig.com
Video Editing: OpenShot (similar to Vegas etc) - http://www.openshot.org
3D Modelling: Blender (similar to Lightwave etc) - http://www.blender.org

People used to say they'd use linux "when all their applications were available for it" - whereas nowadays I'm regularly hearing the reverse.  Linux has the better apps and people are requesting ports *to* windows (the OpenShot Kickstarter was met partly to fund this).  

Sure, if all you care about is MS Office then by all means stick with Windows.  But, to dismiss the creative tools available under Linux is crazy.  It's enabling a *lot* of people access to professional quality software at zero cost.  

If you have any doubt about the quality of such software then check out some of the Blender videos:-

http://archive.blender.org/features-gallery/movies/index.html

Can you imagine having access to such free software 10 or 20 years ago?

Really, I don't get the hate spewed here for Linux/GNU/Open Source.
A1200 50MHz 68030 16Mb, PCMCIA Ethernet, Indivision AGA MkIIcr
http://www.coherer.net Coherer: Electro!
 

Offline gaula92

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 11:19:08 AM »
Use LUBUNTU: it has the same software base that "mainline" UBUNTU, but it's waaay lighter and has a small memory/cpu footprint.

Try LUBUNTU, you won't regret.