Building MIDI Interfaces 1 IN 1 THRU 3 OUT?

[XDelusion]

I've been scouting around Aminet, looking at all the schematics for building a MIDI interface, and I can not find one like the commercial and home made one's I own.

 One of them has 1 IN and 3 OUTs, where as the other has 1 IN, 1 THRU, and 3 OUTS.

 I hear that Amiga MIDI interfaces have to be built in a certain manner to that they work correctly, so does anyone know of any Amiga specific guides that live up to this standard?

[gertsy]

I am guessing you are looking for multiple outs? Though you haven't said.
You can run multiple outs from the tx out of the midi interface opto isolator.  Most opto isolators have an in, thru and out pin. You can use the tx out(to pin 5) signal ground(to pin 4), and earth(to pin 2) to multiple midi out sockets. Amiga midi interfaces are much easier to build than the pc equivalent as Amiga can run at the midi baud rate where the pc requires buffering. As far as I can remember.

[XDelusion]

I am guessing you are looking for multiple outs? Though you haven't said.
You can run multiple outs from the tx out of the midi interface opto isolator.  Most opto isolators have an in, thru and out pin. You can use the tx out(to pin 5) signal ground(to pin 4), and earth(to pin 2) to multiple midi out sockets. Amiga midi interfaces are much easier to build than the pc equivalent as Amiga can run at the midi baud rate where the pc requires buffering. As far as I can remember.

Yes... an adapter that "lives up to that standard" aka 1 in 1 thru 3 outs.

Is there a guide for this, I don't even know what tx out is.

[gertsy]

Yes... an adapter that "lives up to that standard" aka 1 in 1 thru 3 outs.

Is there a guide for this, I don't even know what tx out is.

2 Choices:

1. You use one of the aminet schematics and duplicate the connections of the single midi Out to 2 other sockets. Giving you 3 midi outs.  Just wire 3 sockets exactly as if they were each individual out sockets. You can't fit them to the circuit board but you can mount them on short cables in a jiffy box that holds the circuit board.
2. Buy a standard Amiga midi interface with one out and rig up your own triple headed midi out cable. One plug into the interface Midi Out and three cables and plugs coming out of it for your instruments (Midi INs)

I actually built my own Amiga Midi Interface from a schematic and supplied circuit board and I just ran 2 out cables (around a metre long) directly from the circuit board for the single out.  

The standard says all devices should be opto isolated from each other and by doing this you are actually hooking end devices together un-isolated but in all reality if a device or interface blew up or surged the signal earth is most likely gonna carry something nasty whether the signal line is opto isolated or not.  There are many musical instruments that have direct serial connections or com port connections for PCs or Macs with no opto-isolation at all.

PS: You do know you can just use the Thru port of a connected midi instrument to daisy chain a midi cable to another instruments Midi In ?

Note.  Just a word of warning. If you make yourself a 3 way Y splitter cable you can only use it one way; From a Midi Out on your interface to the Midi In of your 3 instruments as end of chain devices. Don't try use it to the Midi IN of another Midi Interface or a DAW or USB Connected Sound Module. Label it clearly to say that.  And don't use the cable backwards from multiple Midi Outs in your instruments to a single Midi In on an interface you will just garble the midi in signal.

[XDelusion]

2 Choices:

1. You use one of the aminet schematics and duplicate the connections of the single midi Out to 2 other sockets. Giving you 3 midi outs.  Just wire 3 sockets exactly as if they were each individual out sockets. You can't fit them to the circuit board but you can mount them on short cables in a jiffy box that holds the circuit board.
2. Buy a standard Amiga midi interface with one out and rig up your own triple headed midi out cable. One plug into the interface Midi Out and three cables and plugs coming out of it for your instruments (Midi INs)

I actually built my own Amiga Midi Interface from a schematic and supplied circuit board and I just ran 2 out cables (around a metre long) directly from the circuit board for the single out.  

The standard says all devices should be opto isolated from each other and by doing this you are actually hooking end devices together un-isolated but in all reality if a device or interface blew up or surged the signal earth is most likely gonna carry something nasty whether the signal line is opto isolated or not.  There are many musical instruments that have direct serial connections or com port connections for PCs or Macs with no opto-isolation at all.

PS: You do know you can just use the Thru port of a connected midi instrument to daisy chain a midi cable to another instruments Midi In ?

Alright, I think I get your basic meaning. When I get my pieces in the mail, I'll ask questions and post photos as I go. I'm not a master electrician, but I know enough to do basic Atari 8-Bit mods and the like so I'm sure I can tackle this.

As for MIDI Thru. Maybe I've not tinkered with it enough yet, but lets say I have a midi instrument that my out from the Amiga is going to, and from there I have another instrument connected to it's thru. Since they are both on the same MIDI channel, I'm not sure how to prevent the second instrument from picking up on commands that were intended for the 1st. Though as I say, maybe I've not messed with the thru feature enough yet.

[gertsy]

Alright, I think I get your basic meaning. When I get my pieces in the mail, I'll ask questions and post photos as I go. I'm not a master electrician, but I know enough to do basic Atari 8-Bit mods and the like so I'm sure I can tackle this.

As for MIDI Thru. Maybe I've not tinkered with it enough yet, but lets say I have a midi instrument that my out from the Amiga is going to, and from there I have another instrument connected to it's thru. Since they are both on the same MIDI channel, I'm not sure how to prevent the second instrument from picking up on commands that were intended for the 1st. Though as I say, maybe I've not messed with the thru feature enough yet.

No you have it right.  If you have 3 midi instrument devices on a chain and you have them all set to receive on channel 1 they will all play the same signal coming down the chain.
You have to set them each to different channels.  Drum machines usually default to channel 10 for this reason.

To be clear:  Your Midi Interface is connected to your Amiga Serial port.
The Midi Out of your interface is connected to the Midi In of your first instrument
The Midi Thru of your first instrument is connected to the Midi In of the second instrument
The Mid Thru of the second instrument is connected to the Midi In of the third instrument.

Set the first instrument to Channel 1.  The second to Channel 2 and the third to Channel 3. (Unless one is a drum machine which defaults to 10).

If one of the instruments is a keyboard you want to use as a controller then it should be the first instrument in the chain.  You connect the Midi Out of that instrument to the Midi In of your Amiga Midi Interface.

FYI. Midi thru on any Midi instrument just parrots what comes in through the Midi In.  But it is opto-isolated, safer than hot wiring.  

[Ral-Clan]

I think the original poster also needs to understand that when a MIDI interface has 3 outs, it doesn't mean there are three discreet signals coming out of each OUT.  It's the exact same signal, containing all 16 MIDI channel data, coming out of each.

So it makes no difference if you connect three MIDI instruments to each of the MIDI outs, or daisy chain them from a single out.  It's the same signal they are all going to receive.

(some may argue that daisy chaining can increase latency - but I don't want to cloud the issue - and even so, on short chains such as this it probably doesn't even apply).

What did you need the THRU on the MIDI interface for anyway?  It's really only helpful if you have a master controller keyboard going to the Amiga and want to bypass the Amiga for a bit to directly control the instruments on the output side (there's often a toggle switch to change one of the OUTs to a THRU).

[XDelusion]

OK guys, thanks! I'm working ALL day today so I'll try to do some experiments with daisy chaining tomorrow. In the mean time, is it also possible to take the same aproach with the MIDI interface and create multiple inputs as well?

[magnetic]

Interesting thread guys. I'm confused about MIDI setups. I'm re doing my midi chain and could use some advice. I have a Pyramid MIDI interface with 2 OUTS, 2 THRU, and 1 IN.

I have a Drum machine Boss DR202 with only 1 MIDI IN , 1 MIDI OUT

also a midi keyboard with 1 MIDI IN, 1 MIDI OUT

what would be my ideal chain for this setup? I also have another MIDI module i'd liike to add into the mix that has MIDI IN , OUT, and THRU

Any help is appreciated. I want to be able to use the keyboard to control samples and playback as well as using it as a synth.

You would think MIDI would be easy to figure out with just ins and outs but its complicated sometimes, but I'm a retard.

[Ral-Clan]

Interesting thread guys. I'm confused about MIDI setups. I'm re doing my midi chain and could use some advice. I have a Pyramid MIDI interface with 2 OUTS, 2 THRU, and 1 IN.

I have a Drum machine Boss DR202 with only 1 MIDI IN , 1 MIDI OUT

also a midi keyboard with 1 MIDI IN, 1 MIDI OUT. what would be my ideal chain for this setup?

Since your MIDI instruments don't have any THRU ports, you're a bit screwed for daisy chaining.  So just attach each OUT from your interface directly to each instrument.

I also have another MIDI module i'd liike to add into the mix that has MIDI IN , OUT, and THRU

Put this on any of the interfaces MIDI OUT ports, then take attach a MIDI cable from the module's THRU to either the drum machine or keyboard you mentioned above.

Any help is appreciated. I want to be able to use the keyboard to control samples and playback as well as using it as a synth.

Oh....I wish you'd mentioned that in the first place.

In this case, just attach the OUT from the keyboard to the interface's input.  You might have to disable MIDI echoing (it has different names) in software while recording music from the keyboard to the Amiga so that you don't get double notes. I.e. when playing the keyboard and recording the MIDI data in the Amiga's software sequencer, you don't want the Amiga to immediately echo what you played back to the keyboard and get a loop-back effect while recording.  For instance, on a Roland MSQ sequencer this there is a "MIX OUT" feature that needs to be shut off.

[Ral-Clan]

OK guys, thanks! I'm working ALL day today so I'll try to do some experiments with daisy chaining tomorrow. In the mean time, is it also possible to take the same aproach with the MIDI interface and create multiple inputs as well?

I've never seen one for the Amiga, nor elsewhere (but there are probably some nowadays for the modern PCs).

Generally, you use a MIDI MERGE box or a MIDI patch bay to achieve more than one input.  Again, though, you can use MIDI THRU to daisy chain multiple controller devices, with the final connection going to the Amiga's MIDI IN.

But could you please explain what are you trying to achieve? If you merely want to control both a drum machine and a sound module, any keyboard on the input side (usually your MIDI controller keyboard) can usually control any instrument on the output side.  Yes, the keys on the master control keyboard can be made to trigger drum sounds on an outboard drum machine that's attached via MIDI.  One input keyboard can control any MIDI devece on the outboard side (even if there are dozens of instruments, drum machines, samplers, effects units, digital recording decks, lighting rigs, etc.), as long as those devices have a MIDI input.  You usually never need to touch the outboard instruments.

[XDelusion]

But could you please explain what are you trying to achieve?

  This is where the fun begins.

 First and foremost, I am not a trained muscian first and foremost, the majority of what I have learned has come from having what little rythm I have within me, spending hours experimenting with my gear, youtube tutorials, and of course by talking with people like you.

 My gear collection has built up over time and is pretty diverse in nature. Some of it is meant for more traditional musick, while other pieces seem to be designed with DJ's in mind...

...I don't want to be a DJ or make dance musick for that matter (unless by mistake), but I do want to take these DJ tools and incorporate them into my composisitions and experiments so that I can attempt to realize some of the ideas I have in my head or come to me in response to my mood of the day.

 So in short, some of the gear can be used as controllers, some not. Some are traditional (drum pads, keys), others not (Kaos pads). The keys and drum pads I've learned my way through, but the Kaos pad is something I'm still figuring out in some regards, such as how to record my finger movements as notation data inside of OctaMED S.S. or HD-Rec.

 NOTE: HD-Rec not currently installed, I'm using my A600 till my 1200 gets back from repair.

 I'll create a list of my gear so that you better understand what I've got:

MicroKorg, Korg KP3, Korg Kaossilator Pro, Akai MPX8 SD Sample Pad, Arturia Microbrute, and the Yamaha FB-01.

As for the instruments that will be used live, or for creating samples on the KP3 or Kaossilator Pro, I have:

Korg Wavedrum, Alesis Samplepad, and of course Korg's MP-DS Plus and M01 for the Nintendo DSiXL, as well as Electroplankton.

See album here:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/album.php?albumid=191


Dunno if that helps or makes things more confusing, but there is what I got. As for using some of this with the Amiga, I've been doing that already, it's just the chain that it looks like I need to experiement more with, well that and the settings on the KP3 and Kaossilator Pro.

[Ral-Clan]

Sounds like to me all you need is a master control keyboard on the input side, and maybe a drum pad for triggering all external rhythm machines (could be done with a keyboard, but a drum pad is more natural).  

Not sure about the Kaossilator.  Didn't know those even had MIDI out. Maybe you have the Pro?

You probably wouldn't want to control that from a keyboard because it has it's own unique way of creating sounds with the pad.

[XDelusion]

Sounds like to me all you need is a master control keyboard on the input side, and maybe a drum pad for triggering all external rhythm machines (could be done with a keyboard, but a drum pad is more natural).  

Not sure about the Kaossilator.  Didn't know those even had MIDI out. Maybe you have the Pro?

You probably wouldn't want to control that from a keyboard because it has it's own unique way of creating sounds with the pad.

That's exactly why I want to control with the Kaossilator and KP3. I can trigger the sample banks, as well as have the Amiga manipulate effects on the Kaos pad as it goes through and plays the song, hence adding in the right amount of effect not to mention the right effect at the same exact point in the song every time.

I just woke up from a long cat nap, so now I can finally do some experimenting some more.

[XDelusion]

Saturday just ended up sucking, plus I got busy, angry, depressed, etc. So no motivation to mess with gear.
Sunday, more depression and anger.
Monday, I make moves to resolve my anger and sorrow, still sad, but what can you do, so I messed with my gear to get my mind off of things.

Presently I have the Microbrute's IN port connected to the Yamaha's THRU port. I changed instrument #1 on the Yamaha from MIDI 1 to MIDI 9. I then tested each channel on OctaMED and both play back as they should without issue. Cool I'm one step closer, so thanks to all who have helped in this thread!

As for the using my KORG effects processors as both input and output devices, I'm still trying to work that out and am currently reading through the manual to see how to pull this off and furthermore if OctaMED is capable of talking to it in this manner, as I am starting to think that only modern PC software can pull off such a task, but hopefully I am wrong.

The MicroKorg will soon be added to the experiement, but it is still in pieces till I can get to town to pick up the new wood siding that I want to put on it (in relation to my MicroKorg MOD).