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Offline bloodline

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #104 from previous page: February 16, 2014, 06:42:38 PM »
WTF!? You must have grounds to make a claim for the loss of the package! Whoever stole it probably dumped it as soon as they realised it was anything "of value" :(

Offline mrmoonlightTopic starter

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #105 on: February 16, 2014, 07:05:22 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;758997
WTF!? You must have grounds to make a claim for the loss of the package! Whoever stole it probably dumped it as soon as they realised it was anything "of value" :(

Hi and yes a claim has gone in for the stolen one so we will have to wait and see,and the one that caught fire the seller gave a full refund and asked if I would like to keep the fire damaged one which I have and might put a new motherboard in it ,so all is not lost ,is there a good midi book or some information that I can get hold of only the Music Deluxe 2 has no manual ,best wishes Brian.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #106 on: February 16, 2014, 07:28:12 PM »
MIDI is really pretty simple - it's just one node telling another every note press/release, controller change (i.e. pitch bend,) patch change, etc. that happens, on one of 16 channels. Is there something specific about it that's got you confused?

Anyway, now that you're into MIDI, you're gonna have to get into collecting MIDI synthesizers... ;D
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Offline mrmoonlightTopic starter

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #107 on: February 16, 2014, 07:41:09 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;759002
MIDI is really pretty simple - it's just one node telling another every note press/release, controller change (i.e. pitch bend,) patch change, etc. that happens, on one of 16 channels. Is there something specific about it that's got you confused?

Anyway, now that you're into MIDI, you're gonna have to get into collecting MIDI synthesizers... ;D

Hi yes when I need to raise the volume on a certain instrument I do not see any where in the music Deluxe 2 software to increase it just for that channel ,in yet it has to be there surly ,lol  and is that software synthesizers or hardware synthesizers I need to be collecting lol
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2014, 11:06:35 PM »
Ah. Deluxe Music 2 I think predates the introduction of channel-specific volume control to the MIDI standard and so it doesn't know about it. What you need there is to send CC #7 messages with the appropriate volume level on the appropriate channel. (This was the plain Volume CC before it was channel volume, so Deluxe Music might know it under that name.) Your CTK is certainly new enough to recognize it as such, in any case. You can see a listing of the official MIDI CCs here. If DM2 gives you trouble with that (I'm not familiar with its interface, so I don't know,) the Expression CC sometimes functions similarly (though it might alter the timbre or something as well, depending on the synth in question.)

(And: hardware, hardware, hardware. Once you get a taste for the character of real old-school hardware synths, nothing else will do ;D)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 11:10:44 PM by commodorejohn »
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

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Offline mrmoonlightTopic starter

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #109 on: February 17, 2014, 08:16:01 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;759013
Ah. Deluxe Music 2 I think predates the introduction of channel-specific volume control to the MIDI standard and so it doesn't know about it. What you need there is to send CC #7 messages with the appropriate volume level on the appropriate channel. (This was the plain Volume CC before it was channel volume, so Deluxe Music might know it under that name.) Your CTK is certainly new enough to recognize it as such, in any case. You can see a listing of the official MIDI CCs here. If DM2 gives you trouble with that (I'm not familiar with its interface, so I don't know,) the Expression CC sometimes functions similarly (though it might alter the timbre or something as well, depending on the synth in question.)

(And: hardware, hardware, hardware. Once you get a taste for the character of real old-school hardware synths, nothing else will do ;D)

Truly grateful my friend I will get there in the end and will certainly have a go at what you suggest ,and I am going to have a quick look at some synths very best wishes Brian.
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Offline rdolores

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #110 on: February 18, 2014, 02:06:08 AM »
Quote from: mrmoonlight;759003
Hi yes when I need to raise the volume on a certain instrument I do not see any where in the music Deluxe 2 software to increase it just for that channel ,in yet it has to be there surly ,lol  and is that software synthesizers or hardware synthesizers I need to be collecting lol


DeluxeMusic 2 does have volume control for individual staffs.  Look for "ff" button on the Tool Window (It's below the eraser).  It ranges from fff (loudest) to ppp (softest).  It affects both the Amiga channels as well as the MIDI channels (if you use them).

I, myself, have a Casio CZ-101 synth, which I have had since the late 1980's.  I got it in order to add another 4 channels to the 4 built-in to the Amiga for a grand total of 8 channels.  I mixed the Amiga and Casio channels with a Radio Shack mixer before outputting them to my amplifier.  Had a nice mix of Amiga Sampled sounds and the warm Synth sounds of the Casio.  Composed quite a lot of tunes with this setup:  Deluxe Music, ECE MIDI, Amiga 2000, Casio CZ-101, Sharp Receiver/Amp, Radio Shack mixer and a CZ Librarian/Bank Loader called CZAR.  Never could figure out the Trackers though one day I hope to (OctaMED Sound Studio).  Would also like to learn Bar's N Pipes as well.
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Offline vox

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #111 on: February 18, 2014, 03:18:05 AM »
Quote from: mrmoonlight;757455
Hi I already own a really good Amiga 1200 and a nice little Amiga 600 ,but I am very tempted to buy a Atari st  just for the devil of it and was wondering if any one uses one now and could say  which is best for music Atari or Amiga,,best wishes Brian.

You want a real flame war?

Amiga - Better sound chip, better TRACKER software
Atari - Built in MIDI, better Sequencer software

If you want a real killer its called ATARI FALCON, no Amiga can touch it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Falcon
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2014, 04:10:05 AM »
Quote from: vox;759085
You want a real flame war?
 
Amiga - Better sound chip, better TRACKER software
Atari - Built in MIDI, better Sequencer software
 
If you want a real killer its called ATARI FALCON, no Amiga can touch it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Falcon =

But which is better compared to the X1000?  Thanks Vox, I swear I come to this forum just for the lulz sometimes.  :whack:
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Offline mrmoonlightTopic starter

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #113 on: February 18, 2014, 09:08:13 PM »
Quote from: rdolores;759083
DeluxeMusic 2 does have volume control for individual staffs. Look for "ff" button on the Tool Window (It's below the eraser). It ranges from fff (loudest) to ppp (softest). It affects both the Amiga channels as well as the MIDI channels (if you use them).

I, myself, have a Casio CZ-101 synth, which I have had since the late 1980's. I got it in order to add another 4 channels to the 4 built-in to the Amiga for a grand total of 8 channels. I mixed the Amiga and Casio channels with a Radio Shack mixer before outputting them to my amplifier. Had a nice mix of Amiga Sampled sounds and the warm Synth sounds of the Casio. Composed quite a lot of tunes with this setup: Deluxe Music, ECE MIDI, Amiga 2000, Casio CZ-101, Sharp Receiver/Amp, Radio Shack mixer and a CZ Librarian/Bank Loader called CZAR. Never could figure out the Trackers though one day I hope to (OctaMED Sound Studio). Would also like to learn Bar's N Pipes as well.

 
 Hi thanks my dear friend you are right and I have got it sorted ,another piece in the jigsaw ,best wishes Brian
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Offline mrmoonlightTopic starter

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #114 on: February 18, 2014, 09:10:07 PM »
Quote from: vox;759085
You want a real flame war?

Amiga - Better sound chip, better TRACKER software
Atari - Built in MIDI, better Sequencer software

If you want a real killer its called ATARI FALCON, no Amiga can touch it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Falcon

So many choices I am spoilt for choice ,truly grateful my friend best wishes Brian
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Offline gertsy

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #115 on: February 18, 2014, 09:32:43 PM »
Quote from: rdolores;759083
....
I, myself, have a Casio CZ-101 synth, which I have had since the late 1980's.  I got it in order to add another 4 channels to the 4 built-in to the Amiga for a grand total of 8 channels.  I mixed the Amiga and Casio channels with a Radio Shack mixer before outputting them to my amplifier.  Had a nice mix of Amiga Sampled sounds and the warm Synth sounds of the Casio.  Composed quite a lot of tunes with this setup:  Deluxe Music, ECE MIDI, Amiga 2000, Casio CZ-101, Sharp Receiver/Amp, Radio Shack mixer and a CZ Librarian/Bank Loader called CZAR.  Never could figure out the Trackers though one day I hope to (OctaMED Sound Studio).  Would also like to learn Bar's N Pipes as well.


I think a lot of people had similar setups at the time. I used a DX27 and an RZ-1 Drum machine to do the same; Extend the Amiga sample set. But I used Tiger Cub and Bars&Pipes. I dabbled with Trackers and Midi but found it too constraining.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 09:37:05 PM by gertsy »
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #116 on: February 19, 2014, 12:54:34 AM »
Quote from: rdolores;759083
I, myself, have a Casio CZ-101 synth, which I  have had since the late 1980's.  I got it in order to add another 4  channels to the 4 built-in to the Amiga for a grand total of 8  channels.
Nice :) The CZ's good stuff, although it didn't really suit me personally.

Quote from: mrmoonlight;759066
Truly grateful my friend I will get there in the end and will certainly have a go at what you suggest ,and I am going to have a quick look at some synths very best wishes Brian.
Heh :D I don't know a whole lot about what the market's like over in the UK, but you can generally get mid-'80s to mid-'90s synths pretty inexpensively (that covers late-period analog to the early days of multitimbral digital "workstation" stuff.) Your CTK will already cover most "workstation" bases fairly well (and your Amiga naturally fills the grittier "early sampler" role,) so I'd look at some full-fledged synthesizer gear (i.e. pieces that allow you to create your own sounds.) Here's my opinions on some gear I've used:

The Yamaha DX7 can be had pretty inexpensively ($200-400, depending on whether you get it locally or on eBay) on account of being such a huge seller in its day; the DX7-II has a bit different sound (less gritty, more clear - both are good, it just depends on what you want,) more patch memory, and better performance features. It's best-known for doing excellent metallic/percussive sounds (like the famous '80s pop-ballad electric-piano sound,) but if you take the time to really learn your way around FM synthesis it's capable of an extremely wide variety of sounds. You can also get module versions of both (generally cheaper, and good if you're short on space.) The TX7 is a Mk.1 DX7 in a desktop form factor and stores all the performance settings with each voice (something the original DX7 needs an upgrade to do,) while the TX802 is a rack DX7-II that's eight-part multitimbral.

Yamaha made a bunch of other FM synths as well, mostly based on simpler 4-operator chips. The FB-01 half-rack module is basically the same voice architecture as the Sega Genesis/Megadrive. It's a lot more limited than the DX7s, but also a good bit simpler, and it goes dirt-cheap ($50 range.) The TX81Z is a slightly pricier ($80-120) full-rack module that extends the FB-01's voice architecture with some of the features it was missing from the DX7, as well as multiple operator waveforms (which greatly extends its range of sounds.) Both have eight voices and are eight-part multitimbral; the multitimbral mode in these is a bit primitive and awkward, but for a studio setting it's perfectly usable.

Roland's D-50 was the other big-name early digital synth; it's capable of some glorious sounds and it's worth owning even just for some of the presets ("Fantasia" is still amazing despite being one of the most overused sounds ever.) It goes for more than the DX7, usually ($400-500-ish,) but it's worth every penny. If you want a lower-quality but cheaper version of the basic sound, the famous MT-32 module ($50-100) uses the same basic architecture (and is multitimbral, to boot.)

Transitioning between digital and analog, the Korg DW-8000 is a neat hybrid synthesizer - it generates single-cycle digital waveforms from ROM and runs them through analog filters and amplifiers, with the final stage being a digital delay that can be modulated for chorus-type effects. It goes for around DX7 prices ($200-300) and can produce some of the DX7's famous digital bell/piano sounds, but can also do some lovely analog-style pads and some neat spacey sounds that fall in between. There's also a rack version, the EX-8000, though it doesn't generally go any cheaper.

On the subject of analog synthesizers, you won't get the famous "big names" cheap unless you make an extraordinarily lucky find in someone's basement or something, but a lot of perfectly decent non-famous keyboards can be had fairly inexpensively. The Oberheim Matrix-6, for example, goes for $400-700 and has an extremely flexible voice architecture that can create some quite complex sounds; the sound isn't legendary, but it's plenty good. The only downside is that, like many later analogs, the voice parameters are all hidden behind a single set of data-entry controls (in this case, a set of membrane buttons.) Ugh...but on the other hand, it's that that allows the complex 90+ parameter voice architecture to begin with. There's a rack version, the Matrix-6R, that goes cheaper, and another rack version, the Matrix-1000, that has no onboard voice editing (you have to use a computer editor) but comes with a huge number of voices pre-loaded and twice the user-editable patch memory.

The Roland JX-10 is just a gorgeous instrument; it's like the analog synthesizer equivalent of a concert grand in that it just sounds ultra-classy no matter what. It goes for $500-700, and if you want to avoid editing voices with the craptastic "alpha dial" the PG-800 programmer goes for another couple hundred (unless you get a good deal on the pair, as I did,) but it's just an ultra-lush, warm analog sound. Its little brother the JX-8P can be had cheaper, but the JX-10 is basically two 8Ps in a single keyboard, which can be layered or split for some wonderfully complex sounds. There's a rack version of the JX-10, the MKS-70, which has the advantage of a much better MIDI implementation, which allows the use of free computer voice editors in place of the PG-800.

The Korg MS-20 Mini ($600) is a modern reproduction of one of Korg's old analog monosynths; its monophonic nature limits its versatility for live performance, but of course in a studio situation you can stack as many tracks as you want - you can even make whole songs with it. It's got a great grungy, organic sound, and its semi-modular nature and direct panel control of every parameter means that it's great for learning how analog synthesis works. Good stuff :)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:08:57 AM by commodorejohn »
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Offline gertsy

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #117 on: February 19, 2014, 06:54:31 AM »
Wow what a post. I've always envied the DX-7 because I had a 27 of course. I wonder how much and how available the TX-7 sound module is?
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #118 on: February 19, 2014, 07:27:57 AM »
TX7s seem to run in the $100-150 range. The downside is that, like the DX7, they're monotimbral; if you go another $100 or so higher you can get a TX802, which is multitimbral. Also, the TX7 has no onboard editing, but the DX7's editing facilities are no great shakes to begin with.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 07:38:19 AM by commodorejohn »
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline mrmoonlightTopic starter

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Re: which is best for music Atari or Amiga
« Reply #119 on: February 19, 2014, 07:14:22 PM »
Wow what a super post this is and I do thank you commodorejohn  
 totally amazing right down to the last detail ,this is going to take me quite a while to digest and I do appreciate it ,truly grateful my friend very best wishes and off to start reading Brian.
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