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AuthorTopic: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code  (Read 2731 times)

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Offline superfrog76

Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« on: December 08, 2013, 08:44:18 AM »
Hi guys; got my miggy OS up and running, and now I would like to get some applications on it, to actually start to code.

I know C++, and a bit of C; and I am planning to learn ASM, since it seems that it is the only thing that you can learn, to make anything decently fast.

As now I have installed only StormC, since it is C++; but now I would like to know what else is considered a good software, to develop on C and 68K assembly.

Heard of Lattice C and Argasm, for C and ASM, but since it is my first time writing code on Amiga, I am not sure if they would be the best and fastest on the market.

Others seems to prefer cross compiling via Windows, but I am not sure that it is the way to go...the Amiga is isolated, not on a network, and I don't really wanna waste time moving back and forth data, and fight to configure amidev to run correctly...I just wanna develop like the original developers used to :)
 

Offline kamelito

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2013, 05:51:08 PM »
Quote from: superfrog76;754022
Hi guys; got my miggy OS up and running, and now I would like to get some applications on it, to actually start to code.

I know C++, and a bit of C; and I am planning to learn ASM, since it seems that it is the only thing that you can learn, to make anything decently fast.

As now I have installed only StormC, since it is C++; but now I would like to know what else is considered a good software, to develop on C and 68K assembly.

Heard of Lattice C and Argasm, for C and ASM, but since it is my first time writing code on Amiga, I am not sure if they would be the best and fastest on the market.

Others seems to prefer cross compiling via Windows, but I am not sure that it is the way to go...the Amiga is isolated, not on a network, and I don't really wanna waste time moving back and forth data, and fight to configure amidev to run correctly...I just wanna develop like the original developers used to :)

 SAS/C and Devpac, ASM-ONE is also a nice all in one 68k solution. Kamelito
 

Offline spirantho

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 07:16:52 PM »
Most Amiga developers used cross-compilers.....

Use ANSI C (Storm C will do), and use assembler for really time-critical loops. That's what I do anyway, and it's the normal way.

Why is this marked as "news" by the way?
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 07:34:26 PM »
Thanks

So can I put on the same partition also another C package like SAS/C, even if I already have StormC?

I agree that cross compiling is easier, from a certain perspective, but I am not worried to wait for compiling  :) I just want to keep everything as original as possible, due the fact that I am a beginner at Amiga development, so I lack the knowledge to figure out what is wrong with a cross compiler. Doing everything on the machine eliminate some variables :)

I didn't realize that I posted in the wrong section; but I have no idea how to move the post :( Sorry about that.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 08:50:41 PM »
The best free C compiler is VBCC

http://sun.hasenbraten.de/vbcc/

Annotate is a good free syntax highlighting editor

http://aminet.net/package/text/edit/Annotate_usr

If you want an all in one IDE then there is CubicIDE but it costs.

http://www.softwareandcircuits.com/division/amiga/products/cubic/index.html

For assembly coding there are AsmOne and AsmPro

http://www.theflamearrows.info/documents/ftp.html
http://members.home.nl/m.reestman/asmpro.html
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline eliyahu

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 12:06:12 AM »
Quote from: superfrog76;754036
I didn't realize that I posted in the wrong section; but I have no idea how to move the post :( Sorry about that.

no worries. i've gone ahead and moved your post to the correct forum. :)

-- eliyahu
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here."
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 12:48:19 AM »
I would wholly recommend learning to use 68k assembly language.
It was the last ISA that I thought had a relatively easy to learn architecture.
While its not the only way to make something fast, don't let anyone try to convince you there is a better way to create compact efficient code (because C is quite distant in that regard).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 03:10:58 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;754040
The best free C compiler is VBCC
Perhaps, but probably too slow for 680x0 hardware :( I tried it a few years ago and it was too slow for even a simple 'Hello world!' program :(

For 68030, Dice is quite usable speed wise, and perhaps SAS6.58 (which is probably much better than Dice).

Quote from: nicholas;754040
For assembly coding there are AsmOne and AsmPro
Indeed, these are absolutely fantastic for learning 680x0 assembly language.
 

Offline Havie

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 04:36:04 PM »
The other option that isn't cross compiling on a PC is to set up a programming environment in WinUAE that matches your taget spec but allows you to recover from crashes more easily, change the target spec easily and also allows you to do prgramming at maximu CPU speed.  The compile code and transfer to Amiga to test.
 
This works pretty well with Blitz Basic (which seems to crash a lot) and I have successfully coded a few simple things and transfered across.  The difference between running Blitz (for coding) on WinUAE at max speed compared to Amiga 1200 @030 is significant and does make things simlper.  Also, it is much easier to get stuff from the web across to the Amiga side of WinUAE.
 
It is laudable to want to do things 'properly' and I had many happy hours programming my old Speccy, St and Miggy in various langauages from Z80 to Stos to Amos to Blitz but why not use teh advantages that a modern system offers?  We have learnt a lot about programming in the last 20 years - are you going to ignore those too...:banana:
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 04:54:16 PM »
Quote from: Havie;754075
The other option that isn't cross compiling on a PC is to set up a programming environment in WinUAE

:laughing:
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 07:16:59 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;754072
Perhaps, but probably too slow for 680x0 hardware :( I tried it a few years ago and it was too slow for even a simple 'Hello world!' program :(

For 68030, Dice is quite usable speed wise, and perhaps SAS6.58 (which is probably much better than Dice).


Indeed, these are absolutely fantastic for learning 680x0 assembly language.

VBCC is ok my 060 but you are right about SAS/C being better on slower CPU's.  I recently spent a few hours modifying a small tool of mine that compiled with both GCC and VBCC with no problems to compile with SAS/C and it was a real PITA because it doesn't have much in the way of C99 support and I'm lazy. :)

@OP
I can send you a fully patched copy of SAS/C  6.58 or 7.01 if you PM me your email address.  In fact I can send you pretty much any dev tool you fancy as I have most things knocking around my machines.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 07:50:44 PM »
Off topic:

Quote from: nicholas;754082
In fact I can send you pretty much any dev tool you fancy as I have most things knocking around my machines.
Would you by any change have ALL the dependencies to compile the original Dopus Magellan sources with SASC6? I've tried a few times and failed.
 

Offline Havie

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 07:55:16 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;754076
:laughing:
A cross compiler is a compiler capable of creating executable code for a platform other than the one on which the compiler is running.
 
Emulating an Amiga to program through Workbench for an Amiga is not cross compiling.:swords:
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »
Quote from: Havie;754088
Emulating an Amiga to program through Workbench for an Amiga is not cross compiling.:swords:

That may be, but it still comes down to the same thing: Compiling code for one machine on another.
 

Offline Havie

Re: Suggestions for programs to use on real amiga to code
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 08:52:15 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;754093
That may be, but it still comes down to the same thing: Compiling code for one machine on another.

Fair comment although in the world we live in the boundaries blur - who would have thought 20 years ago that an emulated environment would be as powerful as WinUAE is?  And this is a far cry from connecting a ZX Spectrum to a a more powerful computer and passing compiled code through some sort of serial cable!
 
What Superfrog76 could do is program in an Amiga C compiler but have the advantage of super quick compilation, an emulated test bed and a simple (assuming compact flash transfer) way of passing his programs to a real environment.  This keeps more in the spirit of what he wants to do without using a totally alien environment to write the software.
 
But...
 
going back to my other point, using a super duper PC C compiler will come with 20+ years of improvements.  And as mainly a basic programmer I find Amiga Blitz (which I used loads back in the day) much harder to use the PC Blitz.  I would give anything for a modern debugger!!!
 
Still, have gone on too much.