Yup, I just banned him...

[fishy_fiz]

Per capita there's more deaths by guns in places where guns are easily accessible (US topping the charts).
Do people not see the connection there?  
It may be a persons right to defend themselves, but why must it be guns? This attitude (and almost reflex response of "its our right to defend ourselves" when questioned) is obviously quite dangerous. Its not like nations who arent so quick to bare firearms dont also have a right to defend themselves. They do. They just dont put themselves in a kill or be killed situation so quickly. The notion that guns = defense is ludicrous if most people have them.

Simple equation. Stop people having unneccessary guns, there's less people using them.

And backtracking a little, but of course you can defend yourself and your belongings in Australia, but it all comes down to reasonable force (if violence is involved). You do what you need/have to do, without going over the top,.. like using a gun on someone for trying to steal your tv and xbox360 (as a random example). Yes, a thief is far from a stand-up citizen, but shooting someone is a far worse crime.

[Kesa]

Unfortunately the vast majority of people in Australia have been brainwashed into thinking LEGAL gun owners are like the CRIMINAL gun owners and hence forth the checks that the police do because as everyone know we adults can't do anything for ourselves...

Guns are not a part of Australian identity. I think most Australians believe guns are unneccessary in suburbia. I am one of them. But i think most people in Australia know there are guns needed for use in the outback for culling. You sir are out of place.

BTW did you see the bushfires? Last night i saw the clouds glowing orange because of the fires. Lots of smoke too.

[save2600]

Simple equation. Stop people having unneccessary guns, there's less people using them.

Wrong.

Wow - starting to sound like a broken record here.

Again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !

[Kesa]

So does that make butch dykes who love guns straight? People who buy into stereotypes should quit!

The problem i have with stereotypes in that they are often true. People will always be quick to slam you for using them completely ignoring the fact they are true which is dumb. For example:

Stereotype: Asian teenage girls can't drive.
Fact*: Asian teenage girls can't drive.

I hate political correctness. For me it has become a really ugly word.

*I speak from my personal experience of trying to teach my teenage asian girlfriend and her friends how to drive.

Edit: for the sake of being diplomatic and TMHG when i say stereotypes i am referring to generalisations in general.

[Retro_71]

Per capita there's more deaths by guns in places where guns are easily accessible (US topping the charts).
Do people not see the connection there?  
It may be a persons right to defend themselves, but why must it be guns? This attitude (and almost reflex response of "its our right to defend ourselves" when questioned) is obviously quite dangerous. Its not like nations who arent so quick to bare firearms dont also have a right to defend themselves. They do. They just dont put themselves in a kill or be killed situation so quickly. The notion that guns = defense is ludicrous if most people have them.

Simple equation. Stop people having unneccessary guns, there's less people using them.

Does that include Australia? i think not although the process takes a long time and there is lots of red tape it is not that hard to own a firearm in Australia IF you have a clean record. So is gun death the top death, NO it is Knife wounds and then beatings (In Australia)

As i said earlier I think that in the US gun's should be unloaded and kept in safes like here is Australia. That would stop most kids from touching guns without anyone knowing.

[Retro_71]

Guns are not a part of Australian identity. I think most Australians believe guns are unneccessary in suburbia. I am one of them. But i think most people in Australia know there are guns needed for use in the outback for culling. You sir are out of place.

BTW did you see the bushfires? Last night i saw the clouds glowing orange because of the fires. Lots of smoke too.

Actually it was long ago BUT the powers that be started changing people minds on that.
BTW Bushrangers anyone??? (our wild west was just as wild as America's)
As for suburbia there are plenty of gun club to practice.
I have seen those fire and smoke.. bad!!! i was there..
Have you seen rabbits and foxes lately? i have and that was just outside Parramatta (one fox got run over) about 20km from the CDB there are pests everywhere it would be naive to think pest animals are only in the bush, also farmer rely on hunters to get rid of there pest species since as much as they want they have no time and if they use poisons and or traps some of there own livestock and native animals would also get caught.

If i am out of place i thank God for that, better to be out of place then just another sheep. Also did you know those greens want to take away fishing??
Probably in 20 years time i will be having this discussions but about fishing God forbid that i have a fishing Rod, reel and some lures then!!!
Also i live far away from the water and or fishing spots so is my fishing gear unnecessary too?

[fishy_fiz]

Nah, Australia doesnt have many deaths by guns (in no small part due to the gun laws).

Again though, its simple logic, and stats back it up.
Give people easy access to guns, and there's more crimes committed with them.
It doesnt matter if "law abiding citizens" are the problem or not. The fact that theyre so accessible is the issue. Those same, much touted freedoms also apply to "bad guys" (yes I know there's restrictions in place for known criminals, but thats only a fraction of the criminals out there, not to mention more guns means more easily accessible illegal guns), which inspires "Upstanding Citizen" to also buy a gun. Before you know it things are gun vs. gun, so everyone is on a level, but pretty extreme playing field, making the playing field much more dangerous than in places where guns arent so common.

If my house was to be broken into while home, Id much rather there be no guns involved.

It's "funny". In my country I also have the freedom to have a firearm if I should choose to, yet Id never consider it, even for defense. When so few people have them it doesnt have the "me too" ripple effect.

[Kesa]

Wrong.

Wow - starting to sound like a broken record here.

Again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !

I'm sorry but i still don't understand why you need guns in the first place :confused:

They are completely unneccessary in suburbia. If America really does need guns in suburbia then it must be a really screwed up country.

[desiv]

Until someone armed (or not) and illegally enters your home and... tried to rob, rape and... .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw

:rofl:

desiv

[save2600]

I'm sorry but i still don't understand why you need guns in the first place :confused:

They are completely unneccessary in suburbia. If America really does need guns in suburbia then it must be a really screwed up country.

Yes, America *has* turned into a screwed up country, but not for the reasons we're discussing here (gun ownership). Lots of flawed ideologies, where do-gooders thrust their values onto everyone else with a 'one size fits all' mentality. Completely ignoring facts, changing facts to suit their vision of utopia or completely rewriting history in order to further the agenda.

[Kesa]

[save2600]

Wow, gotta love modern "computing". The picking and choosing that is A.org. A three paragraph rebuke in line #129 - poof!

[Kesa]

Wow, gotta love modern "computing". The picking and choosing. The flaws. And especially this site's idiotic and unnecessary flaws.

Your response is actually typical. I have had this reaction from several  American gunlovers. They get hot tempered and aggressive when you fail  to share their opinion on why guns are OK. This is part of the reason  guns and America scare the crap out of me.

In my entire life i  have never felt the need or desire to own a gun. Any threatening  situation i have ever been in or can imagine being in i have been able  to resolve effectively without the use of a gun. I am now going to go  into a gun shop and buy a gun so i can "defend myself". Can someone  explain this logic to me because i am really confused.

[save2600]

Your response is actually typical. I have had this reaction from several  American gunlovers. They get hot tempered and aggressive when you fail  to share their opinion on why guns are OK. This is part of the reason  guns and America scare the crap out of me.

In my entire life i  have never felt the need or desire to own a gun. Any threatening  situation i have ever been in or can imagine being in i have been able  to resolve effectively without the use of a gun. I am now going to go  into a gun shop and buy a gun so i can "defend myself". Can someone  explain this logic to me because i am really confused.

Waaaaaaaaaay too much time wasted here, but Kesa... in order to satisfy your confused state - try living here for a while. And NOT as a worthless piece of %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! with nothing to lose. Try as you might, in getting "ahead"... only to have it all taken away in a moments flash, thanks to criminals or worse.

[stefcep2]

I live in Australia and the the absurd arguments Pro-Gun Americans make never ceases to amaze.

"The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"-  Yeah after he has killed about two dozen school kids, well done for "stopping him" from killing three dozen...

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Yeah try and kill said two dozen kids with a knife in about 15 minutes...

[stefcep2]

Wrong.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !

Not per se, but law abiding citizens who also happen to be nutjobs just waiting to explode with easy access to guns and ammo are a big, big problem..