Wanted: Volunteers to make OS4 and MOS hardware entries for Big Book of Amiga Hardw

[yssing]

well in any case, it would be great to have a list of what hardware or chipsets are supported under the various amiga ng systems.

[itix]

@Matt_H

Amiga or not, can't we have our own dedicated web site? The truth is that many hardcore Amigans do not want to merge with NG stuff and we should just respect their opinion. NG Amiga is its own breed that has very little to do with heydays of Commodore.

[takemehomegrandma]

I think this is a very bad idea; only real Amiga hardware is real Amiga hardware! It's really no more difficult than that! Keep the history clean and pure. This won't mean that any NG efforts won't have a place in the history as Vox claimed, not at all, but the fact is that HW wise they have all more in common with common commodity PC HW (CPU being the biggest/only difference) than true Amiga HW. It's nothing bad with that IMHO, but it's just not the same, it's not Amiga, and this isn't changed by putting a boing ball sticker on top of it.

I would also include machines like the Peg 1 and 2 and Efika for MorphOS and the AROS machines like the iMica, but I would stop short of including generic PCs and Macs because they're covered by other websites; you have to draw the line somewhere, after all.

The line should of course be drawn right at the last true Amiga HW that existed, not before, and certainly *not* arbitrarily after! Amiga HW is Amiga HW, period!

If you would include AmigaOne/Teron, Pegasos, iMica etc, then you should also include *all* AROS native HW, as well as *all* of these:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65055

You should at least be consistent, and not draw the line from certain individuals arbitrary subjective opinions!

But again, only Amiga HW is Amiga HW. It's no more complicated than that!

:madashell:

[takemehomegrandma]

@matt_h

amiga or not, can't we have our own dedicated web site? The truth is that many hardcore amigans do not want to merge with ng stuff and we should just respect their opinion. Ng amiga is its own breed that has very little to do with heydays of commodore.

+1

[Duce]

Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix.  The "our" mentality.  Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch.  It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.

We're all on the same boat, Lads.  NG, classic, emulation, whatever it is - you should be damned thankful there's even an Amiga scene *left",  rather than driving wedges over stupid semantics like "baww, those new school guys wanna put their poopy new pics and info on *our* site!".  Use what you enjoy.  I'd love to hear your experiences with it, even if I use a different method at getting my "Amiga" fix.

My logic?  If someone goes there (BBOAH or elsewhere) after 20 years of being out of the Amiga scene, and sees something that sparks his interest, classic or NG - that gets him back into the Amiga?  Godspeed to him.  Information is power.  I'm happy to get another Amigan back into the fold, whether he uses an A500, an X1000, or a MOS rig.

Find it ironic that no one has issues with the completely vaporware or prototype stuff, or the oddball kiosk stuff that *really* has no overlap to the dear classics on BBOAH, but they fudge their undies at the mere mention of NG hardware.  "TAINTED, TAINTED!!!  I CALL THEE TAINTED!!!"

I'd be amused if it wasn't just so damned predictable, really.  Guess the major thing missed in all of this was the "if this link doesn't pertain to you, don't click it!" ideal.

Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff.  Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade.  Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).

[bloodline]

Wow... Lot of strong emotions stired up!

All I was asking is what advantages does adding commodity hardware to the database give?

The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site, it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and why did people visit them.

[Duce]

All I was asking is what advantages does adding commodity hardware to the database give?

That's a very good question, and one that did enter my mind in regards to how I use the site, but perhaps I was a bit short sighted in regards to other peoples usage cases.  Me, I couldn't care less about what is listed on BBOAH.  I visit there a couple times a week and read what interests me personally and skip what doesn't interest me.  Pretty simple concept to ignore what doesn't offer me any value, and I'm glad a site like BBOAH even exists.  It's one of the Amiga sites that we simply cannot ever let slip away, it's of that much value, just like Aminet or A.org.  I can say 100% that in 2008, when I was getting back into the Amiga after being gone from it since around 1994, BBOAH truly did bring me back into the Amiga scene with its' wealth of information.

"Commodity hardware" is an odd word to use, but a suitable word.  A PPC Mac running MOS is still a Mac, even though it's running an Amiga-oid OS.  Same goes for things like the SAM, they are embedded boards that coincidentally run an Amiga-oid OS, OS4.  Neither are "official Amiga's".

I think a lot of people fear what this will usher in.  If we add the SAM boards (and other OS4 boards), and MOS capable machines, AROS machines - what's next?  Any PC running Amiga Forever or Amithlon deserves its' own entry?  Nah, that's never going to happen, IMO.  Same goes for "wolves in sheeps clothing" things like the re-fabbed C-USA C64 clone cases with PC guts, or their Amiga branded Mini ITX Mac Mini knockoffs.  Is it right for me to have no issues with SAM and OS4/MOS, or AROS rigs getting on BBOAH, but I have worries about someone coming along demanding that an off the shelf PC running Amiga Forever warrants its' own entry?  Who knows.

I suppose I am looking at the future more than anything.  Legacy, and I mean true legacy - Amiga hardware at the base machine level will never be made again.  A lucky lottery winner would be foolish to start remaking a 20 year old computer like the A1200.  The future lies in expansion products like Amigakit and other supportive vendors are selling for legacy fans, as well as in the NG systems - and perhaps even more so in the FPGA implementations like FPGA Arcade.  FPGA Arcade is no more of a truly technically "Amiga" solution that a SAM or MOS machine, is it?  I mean, for you hard line Amiga zealots, it's "still not an Amiga", is it?  Same goes for a Minimig - yet Minimig has an entry on BBOAH that no one seems to be griping about.

One serious question I have of all of you:  When the FPGA Arcade goes public and undoubtedly impresses the living heck out of all of us, does it warrant a BBOAH entry?  I mean, it's no more a "real Amiga" by most of you peoples standards than the SAM or MOS machines on my desk are, you know?  Choose wisely, lest thee appear to be a hypocrite

[wawrzon]

Wow... Lot of strong emotions stired up!

All I was asking is what advantages does adding commodity hardware to the database give?

The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site, it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and why did people visit them.

+1

the whole action is nothing but another desperate attempt to crap all over the genuine amiga fans sandbox to spoil their game if they dont convert. and this just by individual actionists of some other system. im sorta tired of being haunted by freaks like that. as usual morphos users show more reason, integrity and respect to amiga legacy.

[vox]

I think this is a very bad idea; only real Amiga hardware is real Amiga hardware! It's really no more difficult than that! Keep the history clean and pure. This won't mean that any NG efforts won't have a place in the history as Vox claimed, not at all, but the fact is that HW wise they have all more in common with common commodity PC HW (CPU being the biggest/only difference) than true Amiga HW. It's nothing bad with that IMHO, but it's just not the same, it's not Amiga, and this isn't changed by putting a boing ball sticker on top of it.

The line should of course be drawn right at the last true Amiga HW that existed, not before, and certainly *not* arbitrarily after! Amiga HW is Amiga HW, period!

If you would include AmigaOne/Teron, Pegasos, iMica etc, then you should also include *all* AROS native HW, as well as *all* of these:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65055

You should at least be consistent, and not draw the line from certain individuals arbitrary subjective opinions!

But again, only Amiga HW is Amiga HW. It's no more complicated than that!

:madashell:

I understand the logic behind such opinion, however Amiga hardware is whatever runs AmigaOS. I agree AROS makes a situation bit more complex, so for the beginning we ll go without it, with much respect to AresOne and iMica.

This is what current BBOAH managment says

I see that there's a lot of thread activity regarding NG Amiga in BBoAH.
 My personal defintion of "Amiga hardware" is hardware that can be used with AmigaOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS)
 Since a lot of entries in BBoAH has been made before I took over, I  can't gurantee that all BBoAH entries are valid according to the above  definition.

Sadly, so far only one AmigaOne XE owner volunteered, as well as I will do my share of work.

However if this website definition includes only OS4 capacable hardware, it excludes Efika and Mac Minis
(and all 72 models ....) altough I am for opting for full MorphOS pages. As long as they do nice pages
for all 72 models ...

Still looking for SAM 460, Efika, Pegasos 1/2, AmigaOne non XE models volunteers.
And whoever wants do to piece of job

[vox]

Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix.  The "our" mentality.  Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch.  It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.

Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff.  Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade.  Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).

Thanks Duce, can you be counted in? A1200 is there, so there is SAM 440 to do, and if you wish MOS Mac, why not. Like Trevor said, that will be a painful one, but again, yes it works.

the whole action is nothing but another desperate attempt to crap all  over the genuine amiga fans sandbox to spoil their game if they dont  convert. and this just by individual actionists of some other system. im  sorta tired of being haunted by freaks like that. as usual morphos  users show more reason, integrity and respect to amiga legacy.

Again, no one is forcing anyone to "Conversion" just because existance of newer boards will be added.

I am interested to hear how does more entries harm BBOAH or Classic community?

How does it discrispect anything if its part of the same community, made for it,even
due to licensing reasons mainly, most of that hadrware doesn`t have CBM or Amiga name?

Is it freakish to update a page with current and recent developments?

And why someone that used to be Classic user but has moved to MorphOS / OS4
is not a "genuine user or fan"when it is continuous investment in future of the same kind?

The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database  for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site,  it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and  why did people visit them.

Seems like a bit for history and nostalgia, and whereever possible, they provide nice manuals, schematics and other useful material.

Some of the hardware like Pegs and older AmigaOnes as out of production qualify as historical setting, and while still around and we have
manuals (so we don`t dig eBay auctions) should be done.

[Duce]

Would be happy to send you any SAM 440ep information you need, just let me know what you are after via a PM here if you like.  Owned a 440ep since late 2008.

[takemehomegrandma]

Sadly, so far only one AmigaOne XE owner volunteered

Maybe because it's simply wrong?

So, seems like Pegasos / Efika owners so far chose to be excluded. Their choice.

OMG are you for real? Who are *you* to make decisions and definitions on behalf of an entire community?

:confused:

[Duce]

I suppose if the operator of the site wishes to include NG systems, it's well within their rights, isn't it?  Hey, she's a free world.  Nothing stopping a person from creating a purist site only dealing with one specific genre of the hobby.

Curious still why stuff like Minimig is kosher but other newer systems simply are not.  Minimig or FPGA is no more "Amiga" at the base level hardware than a NG PPC machine is.  A question I am pretty sure we won't ever get an answer to

[SysAdmin]

Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix.  The "our" mentality.  Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch.  It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.

We're all on the same boat, Lads.  NG, classic, emulation, whatever it is - you should be damned thankful there's even an Amiga scene *left",  rather than driving wedges over stupid semantics like "baww, those new school guys wanna put their poopy new pics and info on *our* site!".  Use what you enjoy.  I'd love to hear your experiences with it, even if I use a different method at getting my "Amiga" fix.

My logic?  If someone goes there (BBOAH or elsewhere) after 20 years of being out of the Amiga scene, and sees something that sparks his interest, classic or NG - that gets him back into the Amiga?  Godspeed to him.  Information is power.  I'm happy to get another Amigan back into the fold, whether he uses an A500, an X1000, or a MOS rig.

Find it ironic that no one has issues with the completely vaporware or prototype stuff, or the oddball kiosk stuff that *really* has no overlap to the dear classics on BBOAH, but they fudge their undies at the mere mention of NG hardware.  "TAINTED, TAINTED!!!  I CALL THEE TAINTED!!!"

I'd be amused if it wasn't just so damned predictable, really.  Guess the major thing missed in all of this was the "if this link doesn't pertain to you, don't click it!" ideal.

Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff.  Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade.  Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).

+1

[wawrzon]

this all has nothing to do with practical reasoning. its just publicity stunt by an os4 vocal supporter. if yox really intended to gather a useful database of technical reference he could open his own site. however se sure wouldnt bother to do that as the only reason is to mix up the os4 systems under genuine amigas and therefore to misguide the unaware visitors, that the hardware in question has anything in common.

there were actions like this before, just to name the famous amiga developers lists where the genuine inventors are named in one breath with sdl porters. its just sad and certainly puts more people off than anything else, but be my guest.

[Blizz1220]

OMG are you for real? Who are *you* to make decisions and definitions on behalf of an entire community?

:confused:

It's the boing ball fever , no known cure for that

Vox if you don't include all three camps there will be a war :furious:

As long you include all flavours I'm fine with it :laughing: