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Author Topic: Diskless booting of Amiga  (Read 8952 times)

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Offline freqmaxTopic starter

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 10, 2013, 10:44:30 AM »
NFS only need TCP if you configure it too. It can use any protocoll.

Some common missconceptions:
 * You need IP to communicate. No you can use MAC layer directly just like ARP does
 * TCP/IP stack is required. Infact quite a lot can be done with just IP, like ICMP_ECHO. Which some trojans used to "phone-home".
 * And TCP/IP usually refer to IP + UDP + TCP in that complication order. But IP is the only one required to support UDP or TCP.
 * Most things can be done with UDP which is really simple to implement, it's just that TCP makes things a lot easier.
 * NFS can be configured to use either UDP or TCP. Eliminating TCP saves some codes of programming.

So a minimalistic approach would be to use MAC layer directly with the SANA driver. Very incompatible, but it could do the job.
 

Offline Thomas

Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2013, 10:57:35 AM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;737375
I don't know what is meant by a bootblock for non-block devices but you can definitely boot from RAD which isn't a block device.


RAD *is* a block device.

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2013, 01:02:57 PM »
Quote from: Thomas;737384
RAD *is* a block device.
Is it? I wonder why. It doesn't need to be.

Quote from: Zac67;737156
There are two different types of DOS devices: block  devices with (usually) a physical structure underneath and a file system  on top, and file handlers without, like a RAM disks or a network  redirect. Take a look at the old mountlist entries and you get the main  idea.
Are RAD and RAM different internally then?
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Offline freqmaxTopic starter

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2013, 01:07:57 PM »
RAD: is essentially a emulated floppy
RAM: behaves very much like a network drive

From what I remember.
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2013, 02:48:20 PM »
hm, RAD is arbitrary size though, I copied my whole workbench partition to it once. Elsewhere is telling me that it is a fixed size, weird *is confused*. The OS shouldn't need to know anything about the geometry anyway though.

Also it is possible to boot from RAM: as well, Toni Wilen did it once by accident.
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Offline Matt_H

Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2013, 03:14:17 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;737396
hm, RAD is arbitrary size though, I copied my whole workbench partition to it once. Elsewhere is telling me that it is a fixed size, weird *is confused*. The OS shouldn't need to know anything about the geometry anyway though.

Also it is possible to boot from RAM: as well, Toni Wilen did it once by accident.


The DOSDriver for RAD: requires you to set the number of blocks for the device. By default, it's floppy-sized (80 blocks), but you could make it much larger. It's not dynamic like RAM:. Maybe there's a way to mount something on ramdrive.device and still have it be dynamic, but I'm not sure. There are also a bunch of other recoverable RAM disks (RAD-like) out there. Maybe one of them is dynamic.
 

Offline freqmaxTopic starter

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2013, 06:34:31 PM »
As I recall the RAD: device only allocate sectors when they are used. Thus it's dynamic to a certain degree.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2013, 07:28:49 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;737396
Also it is possible to boot from RAM: as well, Toni Wilen did it once by accident.

That sounds like he's not using the standard ram handler, because it's not recoverable.
 
There was a 3rd part recoverable ram drive that was variable sized and recoverable.
 
The only reason the original rad: was fixed size was because it's easier to make it resident if it doesn't keep changing size. The source was also used as an example of a block device.
 
A network boot wouldn't be hard, you just need to write a device that fetches an image across the network when it starts & decompresses into ram. From then on it can just memcpy when asked to read. You could use something like this http://web.mit.edu/~mkgray/afs/bar/afs/net/dev/project/cgw/misc/tinytcp/ and store the image on an ftp server. Once you've got the code written then making sure it's rommable and making it auto boot at startup is a bit of work, but not too hard. You'd need to have the file system in rom as well.
 
Configuration for stuff like this is usually done using DHCP and files are provided by TFTP, but people generally don't have a TFTP server & DHCP is a bit of a pain to setup. Obviously you can just burn the settings into an eprom if you're doing it for yourself, but for something commercial you'd probably want to either go through the pain of DHCP or use some other form of broadcast that communicates with software on a pc.
 
If you want to only fetch files as they are used to reduce on ram usage then it's going to be more complex as you'll need to write a file system, a better network implementation and it's likely to be slower because of latency. You'll also need to use the same tcp/ip stack at bootup as you're using when running your computer, so that would also have to be rommable as well (which because of settings etc none currently are) or come up with some shim that allows both your mini tcpip stack and the main tcpip stack to run at the same time.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 07:44:39 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline Zac67

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2013, 07:38:02 PM »
A fixed-sized RAD: is much easier to recover on boot because everything is in a single memory chunk.
A RAM:ish flexible device is much harder because you need to track down all the memory allocations and re-allocate them. This may also let you end up with fragmented memory directly after bootup.
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2013, 07:42:50 PM »
it was an empty RAM disk, so it didn't need to be recoverable, but somehow mounted during exec/dos initialisation. I don't know the details. I think it was Toni Wilen. It was while developing the AROS 68k boot ROM so it might not have been exactly the standard RAM handler.
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Offline Zac67

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2013, 07:45:43 PM »
Quote from: freqmax;737300
So RKRM - ROM Kernel Reference Manuals..
"Chapter 27 Graphics Primitives" seems wrong?


Yes, expansion.library has been in chapter 27 in the 2nd edition, sorry.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2013, 09:02:17 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;737430
it was an empty RAM disk, so it didn't need to be recoverable, but somehow mounted during exec/dos initialisation. I don't know the details. I think it was Toni Wilen. It was while developing the AROS 68k boot ROM so it might not have been exactly the standard RAM handler.

If you're making your own boot rom then you can cause any file system to be mounted.
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Diskless booting of Amiga
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2013, 09:54:47 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;737436
If you're making your own boot rom then you can cause any file system to be mounted.
That's the idea.
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