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Author Topic: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."  (Read 12841 times)

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Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2013, 10:38:04 PM »
I know what you mean, I wished for a while that some manufacturer would just produce a full set that all goes together and is guaranteed to work properly, but you have to get a bit from here and a bit from there and hope for the best. Personally I don't even bother with graphics cards, onboard graphics is good enough for me since I don't play PC games so that takes one of the major headaches out of the equation.

It made sense to me that someone should just pick a configuration and tailor a Linux distribution to it and sell PCs with that Linux distro. There is just too much choice, it's bewildering.

Although personally I only buy AMD CPUs, I built an Intel system once, never again.
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2013, 10:42:55 PM »
Quote from: hbarcellos;735101

BTW, sometime ago, I suggested to Amiga-like-OS developers, like AROS for example, to choose ONE (just one) configuration:
- Let's say:
* Intel Core i5-3570K (Ivy Bridge)
* Intel DZ77GA-70K, Intel Z77 Express, BIOS 0049
* Sapphire Radeon HD 7970
* (2 x 4 GB) Crucial PC3-12800 kit

All users here would be able to create their own AROS-Amiga y1000 with not a huge amount of money
They (developers) would be able to do things just one time, knowing exactly what to expect.

Of course, they would have to ignore any other request, like: "ohhh, but I have a nice i3 or this motherboard is prettier/cooler or whatever". At the end of the day, is a niche/hobbyist OS, not a competitor to Windows, Ubuntu or Android. Not even OSX tries to support several different HW...

It's a lost battle trying to support a lot of hardware.

I always say the same thing.  But nobody listens to me.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2013, 10:46:15 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;735102
Personally I don't even bother with graphics cards, onboard graphics is good enough for me since I don't play PC games so that takes one of the major headaches out of the equation.


I am the same way!

I refuse to use a gfx card because they burn waaaaaaaaaay toooo much electricity and they heat up my apartment more than the whole rest of the computer.  Plus they always have a supernoisy fan.  I use onboard, cool, quiet low-electricty onboard gfx just like an Amiga.

Onboard gfx is plenty good enuff to run Chrome and write msgs on Amiga.org
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2013, 10:47:49 PM »
Quote from: rabindranath72;735016
I am routinely using a Macintosh SE/30 with 16Mb of RAM and a 250Mb hard disk; I write documents with Microsoft Word 5.1a (which can even be read by Office up to the 2000 version) or spreadsheets with Excel 4. I can even play a few decent games, and connect to the internet to check email or transfer files from my PC. I have A/UX installed on the same machine, with a full complement of development tools, and it also runs native Macintosh applications. This machine can boot its OS FROM A FLOPPY! The whole System 6.0.8 lives on a floppy disk! THAT was a feat.
Right on :D I need to get my SE/30 recapped...

Quote from: spirantho;735018
The mac is much less efficient than the Amiga.  If you're impressed by that, remember that an A1200 can usefully write  letters and stuff using Final Writer using just a couple of MB of RAM.

If you like fast, efficient OSes, then you should love AmigaOS!
I've of course got no bad words for the Amiga OS, and classic Mac OS has its own issues, but I'll just note that 68k Mac software is perfectly capable of doing plenty in a couple MB as well. It didn't really start suffering from bloat until the later PowerPC years...

Quote from: Duce;735027
Just because a 20 year old Mac suits your needs doesn't make everyone on the bleeding edge "wrong"  :)  Those old machines boot the OS off a floppy - the OS from those days is far, far different than a modern OS.

Use what you enjoy, I say.  There's always going to be the types  that scream from the rooftops "WELL IF I CAN'T DO IT ON MY PDP-8 IT  ISN'T WORTH DOING AND IT IS NOT REAL COMPUTING!11!!1!1!1"

Simple fact is, when most of us got into computers, you had to be a  computer enthusiast.  You *had* to have technical skills.  These days,  modern machines are just an appliance to most people.
You know what, I'm going to go ahead and be "that guy" here, and say that there really is nothing that can't be done in some form on a reasonably powerful 68k Mac or Amiga that is really vitally worth doing on a computer at all. Movies, sure, or playback of recorded music (as opposed to synthesized music,) but those can be done perfectly satisfactorily on dedicated devices (VCRs, CD players) anyway.

And the "appliance" view of computing, blindly treating the computer as a magic black-box that makes stuff happen when you press buttons but that can never be understood by mere mortals, is half the reason modern computing is in such a mess to begin with.

Quote from: stefcep2;735036
One thing to consider is that as you go from 16  bit to 32 bit to 64 bit software, the smallest that any information can  be is 16 bit, 32 bit and 64 bit respectively.  Even if you optimized it  100% the same software will always end up needing more ram and the  executable will always be larger as you up the bits.
That's not true at all. Modern processors are perfectly capable of handling things at the byte level, and some architectures even support bit-field instructions. Some architectures do have a fixed instruction size, so code size can't always be reduced by much, but bloating of RAM usage for data is purely down to programmer laziness.

Quote
But I agree there is a lot of bloat, but no all is due to inefficient  code  Some of it is due to feature creep: adding more and more features  which are less and less useful.

Its interesting that this also extends to even things like icons: do we  really need 32 bit photo-realistic icons that take up more ram, more cpu  cycles?  I actually enjoy using Macos 7 for its simplicity.   I also  now have a 8 color Workbench with the stock Commodore  icons.

And do we need animations of a page curling and turning when reading a  document?  Well actually Apple seems to now think the answer is "no",  with Jon Ives heavily involved in the new Mac interface design, and he  is dead against "photo-realism".
Indeed. Modern software is increasingly buried under a mountain of glitz...Windows 7 won't even let you roll back to the simple 95 look anymore.

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Music is crap now because kids think video game noises from a sega are  music nowadays and strippers = talent. Kids don't have a frame of  reference to know talent vs crap.
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2013, 10:56:23 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;735090
I like to build PCs, but I build them for quietness and efficiency rather than for performance.

ur so awesome!  I love your philosophy!


Quote

 Also I prefer small systems to huge tower cases.


I don't care how big the case is but I would tend toward a larger case so it can have more drive bays.

My old firefox pc from 2004 broke down recently so I suddenly needed a new puter and I bought a random Acer computer from NewEgg thinking that modern computers would be super quiet....  well... it is totally silent.  Except the hard drive makes this chirp sound sometimes, kind of like a click.  Its really noticeable.  Just some idiosyncracy of the 2TB hard drive.

If the computer had not made that chirpy noise then my friend would have bought the exact same model of computer.  He is like me he wants something quiet.

I had absolutely no way to figure out how to buy a silent pc at a reasonable price.  There were websites advertising silent pcs but they were really tremendously expensive and were lacking various features like VGA ports or PS/2 ports.  I am certainly not paying top dollar for a computer that does not even have PS/2 ports!

So anyway I ended up getting this random Acer mass market puter and am having a "meh" experience with it.

I should have asked for your advice.  There it went again, that loud chirpy noise.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2013, 11:13:22 PM »
is it a laptop? I got a laptop recently that is really annoying, the hard drive makes this noise like snipping of scissors. The worst bit is that when that happens the whole thing freezes up, like it keeps parking the head even though it has to access the disk to do anything at all such as typing some text.

I hate that laptop.

Oh it also reboots itself without asking, even while the lid is shut, somehow. I had applications open! Not anymore :(
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Offline royalcrownTopic starter

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2013, 11:18:50 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;735109
ur so awesome!  I love your philosophy!




I don't care how big the case is but I would tend toward a larger case so it can have more drive bays.

My old firefox pc from 2004 broke down recently so I suddenly needed a new puter and I bought a random Acer computer from NewEgg thinking that modern computers would be super quiet....  well... it is totally silent.  Except the hard drive makes this chirp sound sometimes, kind of like a click.  Its really noticeable.  Just some idiosyncracy of the 2TB hard drive.

If the computer had not made that chirpy noise then my friend would have bought the exact same model of computer.  He is like me he wants something quiet.

I had absolutely no way to figure out how to buy a silent pc at a reasonable price.  There were websites advertising silent pcs but they were really tremendously expensive and were lacking various features like VGA ports or PS/2 ports.  I am certainly not paying top dollar for a computer that does not even have PS/2 ports!

So anyway I ended up getting this random Acer mass market puter and am having a "meh" experience with it.

I should have asked for your advice.  There it went again, that loud chirpy noise.


Really the way to fix that is get an SSD...no more noise.
I gots me a Video Toaster...where do I put the bread in ?!?! :confused:
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2013, 11:31:36 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;735112
is it a laptop?


No way.  I never ever ever ever ever ever buy laptops.  They are really bad for your eyeballs.  Also my keyboard is a lot better than any laptop keyboard so its much healthier for my hands.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2013, 11:34:53 PM »
Quote from: royalcrown;735113
Really the way to fix that is get an SSD...no more noise.


I know that will work.  But I also know that they make silent hard drives (or silent enuff).  I have used computers that were super quiet back in 2005 and they were just randomly purchased at Best Buy.  They used normal spinning hard disks.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2013, 11:37:39 PM »
I don't like them either but I needed it for work, unfortunately. That and I needed something with Windows on and there are already 3 PCs, an Xbox 360 and 2 Amiga 1200s in this room so it's getting kind of crowded.

Good luck finding a 2Tb SSD by the way. Samsung Spinpoint used to be the best quiet HDDs but they sold their hard drive department to Seagate so who knows anymore.
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Offline royalcrownTopic starter

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2013, 11:37:45 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;735112
is it a laptop? I got a laptop recently that is really annoying, the hard drive makes this noise like snipping of scissors. The worst bit is that when that happens the whole thing freezes up, like it keeps parking the head even though it has to access the disk to do anything at all such as typing some text.

I hate that laptop.

Oh it also reboots itself without asking, even while the lid is shut, somehow. I had applications open! Not anymore :(
Sounds like the drive is trying to power down really aggressively to save juice, I have an Hitachi external that turns off every few seconds after I use it. Makes a lovely CLANK turning on.
I gots me a Video Toaster...where do I put the bread in ?!?! :confused:
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2013, 11:47:17 PM »
Quote from: royalcrown;735118
Sounds like the drive is trying to power down really aggressively to save juice
I think so but I tried to turn off all the power saving features to no effect. It does it even when it's plugged into the mains. Stupid thing.

The screen is utterly dreadful as well. Don't buy a Lenovo Thinkpad that's my advice to everybody. They used to be good though.
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Offline persia

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2013, 11:59:57 PM »
Non solid state hard drives in a laptop?  Why would you do that?

I find between my iPad and my MacBook Air I rarely use my desktop machine any more.  It just feels right.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2013, 12:15:50 AM »
Quote from: persia;735121
Non solid state hard drives in a laptop?  Why would you do that?
Oh, gee, I dunno, maybe low-cost high-capacity storage?

Oh, right, I forgot, everything is The Cloud now and local storage is (*haughty sniff!*) obsolete.
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2013, 12:26:49 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;735122
Oh, gee, I dunno, maybe low-cost high-capacity storage?

Oh, right, I forgot, everything is The Cloud now and local storage is (*haughty sniff!*) obsolete.


Hey, if it abolishes seek time and platters and corruption when I bang the lappy, I'm all for it.  Hard drives are freaking annoying.  As for the cloud?  Dropbox is the shizz.
 

Offline stefcep2

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Re: Which way do you prefer or "Have it your way."
« Reply #59 from previous page: May 16, 2013, 01:32:37 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;735108


That's not true at all. Modern processors are perfectly capable of handling things at the byte level, and some architectures even support bit-field instructions. Some architectures do have a fixed instruction size, so code size can't always be reduced by much, but bloating of RAM usage for data is purely down to programmer laziness.




Really?  I did not know that.  Every 64 bit executable I've seen has been larger than its 32 bit counterpart and ALWAYS used more RAM.