We need an iBrowse replacement for 68k!!!

[chris]

Maybe it's just an OS 3.x bug that's been fixed for OS 4.

Either that or you are meant to use those OS functions differently for OS 3.x

I don't think so - I've used ReAction on OS3 before and it's no different.  This is the first time I've tried from GCC though, however it only seems to be certain things not working.

Debugging GCC 68k code can be painful, I always use old-school log messages (very tedious!)

Me too.  This bit isn't crashing though, it's just displaying a tiny empty window, so it's either the NewObject call erroring or LAYOUT_AddImage not adding the object.  I suspect the former but need some more logging to be sure - and a window created entirely out of macros is always a pain as it is technically all on one line.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

The most feasable way to bring a modern browsing experience to classic Amiga, would be a with a dedicated proxy server that renders and optimize web pages for a dedicated browser on the Amiga. Something akin to what Opera does with Opera Coast and Opera Mobile, and I believe Google does too with Chrome on mobile. SSL complicates things though

I've used the amiga.org proxy server and it works fine.  On the flipside I've also used that Opera Mobile gimmick, which compresses websites so they "theoretically" load faster.  In my experience the additional processing made them load much slower.  Just my .02 cents.

[kolla]

Well, I did say _dedicated_ proxy for a _dedicated_ browser, for example one that renders ilbm images for the browser, and an interactive overlay for user to select text, click links etc.

[NovaCoder]

Well, I did say _dedicated_ proxy for a _dedicated_ browser, for example one that renders ilbm images for the browser, and an interactive overlay for user to select text, click links etc.

Yep it's a nice idea but it would be tons of work.

If you were going to do that you might as well return the page as basic HTML and just do all of the JavaScript/Flash/HTML 5 processing on the server.

I think a native port of NetSurf would be the best idea at this stage.

[whabang]

It rather makes me think open sorceing Ibrowse would be a good idea. Netsurf might be better for beefier Amigas, but lets not forget about the ones with slower machines.

I agree. I doubt the Ibrowse authors feel like going open-source just like that, though. If you can convince them, then do it.

If not, then there are a few light-weight alternatives available. Dillo would be the best bet, as I see it.

[whabang]

Yep it's a nice idea but it would be tons of work.

If you were going to do that you might as well return the page as basic HTML and just do all of the JavaScript/Flash/HTML 5 processing on the server.

I think a native port of NetSurf would be the best idea at this stage.

Like Opera Mini? Not a bad idea. It would allow existing browsers to keep working, and could adjust the amount of crunching done on the capabilities of the used browser.

But yeah, a lot of work.

[Yasu]

I agree. I doubt the Ibrowse authors feel like going open-source just like that, though. If you can convince them, then do it.

If not, then there are a few light-weight alternatives available. Dillo would be the best bet, as I see it.

For the right sum I think he would. It's not like he is making money out of it now anyway (especially since he's not selling keys anymore).

But there is also this fanboyish argument: Ibrowse is a genuine Amiga product. Keeping it alive would be cool in itself. Not as useful as Netsurf of course, but we are talking about 20+ year old technology. Making Ibrowse good enough to buy stuff and view homepages more correctly would be enough IMO.

[chris]

Making Ibrowse good enough to buy stuff and view homepages more correctly would be enough IMO.

That involves ripping out the entire layout engine and starting again with CSS integration.  If you read Andy Broad's comments on this wrt AWeb, it will involve replacing the engine with something like Webkit, in which case all you've got is another Webkit-based browser, which is not much different from OWB/Odyssey.  Obviously I don't know the internals of iBrowse, but I strongly suspect these comments apply there too - otherwise they'd have done it by now (especially as it is a commercial product so there is an incentive to update it to modern standards).  They *could* rewrite from scratch but that will take time and they will end up with something not too dissimilar to NetSurf.

Either way, open sourcing it isn't going to help anybody.  If back-porting something already existing on Amiga-like platforms isn't happening, then updating an old browser (much more work) isn't going to either.

[Yasu]

That involves ripping out the entire layout engine and starting again with CSS integration.  If you read Andy Broad's comments on this wrt AWeb, it will involve replacing the engine with something like Webkit, in which case all you've got is another Webkit-based browser, which is not much different from OWB/Odyssey.  Obviously I don't know the internals of iBrowse, but I strongly suspect these comments apply there too - otherwise they'd have done it by now (especially as it is a commercial product so there is an incentive to update it to modern standards).  They *could* rewrite from scratch but that will take time and they will end up with something not too dissimilar to NetSurf.

Either way, open sourcing it isn't going to help anybody.  If back-porting something already existing on Amiga-like platforms isn't happening, then updating an old browser (much more work) isn't going to either.

I didn't think about that. I doubt it that "they would have done it by now" though since Ibrowse has not been for sale for a long time now. And all updates up till recently seems to have been mostly bug fixes and not about adding new stuff. But maybe you are right that Ibrowse is too far behind to be worth the trouble.

I guess I just hate to see a once excellent and important program disappear into obscurity.

[utri007]

I didn't think about that. I doubt it that "they would have done it by now" though since Ibrowse has not been for sale for a long time now. And all updates up till recently seems to have been mostly bug fixes and not about adding new stuff. But maybe you are right that Ibrowse is too far behind to be worth the trouble.

I guess I just hate to see a once excellent and important program disappear into obscurity.

As Chris said, it will be too much work to do with iBrowse. Basic download/login functions requires too much "new technology". It is true that there is "more lightweigt" browsers than netsurf, but we already have a iBrowse and AWeb, functionality would be in same level. What we don't have is "semi modern browser", wich would be useable.

Netsurf is only possible solution, of course it is possible toport OWB for 68k Amiga, but it too heavy for most of us.  Netsurf will have some use if you have at least 68030 and enough ram 16-32mb. Using Netsurf with 68030 would require patience, but it will allow quite much what you did require for browser.

[wawrzon]

im pretty sure chris is right and it is how he says if something is too far behind and there is an up to date utility upstream, it will be easier port it fresh right away  rather tran trying to merge in the changes and update the old one. on amiga-like platforms there are two contemporary browsers with a native frontend: odyssey and netsurf, thats your choice.

[whabang]

Well, there's always Lynx, Links and w3m.

[chris]

I've spotted a typo (of no real consequence) in images/bitmap.h:
#ifndef REACTRION_REACTION_H

It's definitely my BitMap object which isn't being created, so I'm missing something:
(2.551870) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5189: WindowBase = 0x5be15860
(2.642908) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5190: WindowObject = 0x539a7ba4
(2.712036) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5191: BitMapBase = 0x579b52c0
(2.784028) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5192: BitMapObject = 0x000000

The creation code is this:

Code: [Select]

struct Screen *wbscreen = LockPubScreen("Workbench");
BitMapObject,
BITMAP_SourceFile, "PROGDIR:Resources/splash.png",
BITMAP_Screen, wbscreen,
BITMAP_Precision, PRECISION_IMAGE,
#ifndef __amigaos4__
BITMAP_Width, 400,
BITMAP_Height, 250,
#endif
BitMapEnd,

[matthey]

I've spotted a typo (of no real consequence) in images/bitmap.h:
#ifndef REACTRION_REACTION_H

Nice. It's surprising know one else noticed.

It's definitely my BitMap object which isn't being created, so I'm missing something:
(2.551870) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5189: WindowBase = 0x5be15860
(2.642908) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5190: WindowObject = 0x539a7ba4
(2.712036) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5191: BitMapBase = 0x579b52c0
(2.784028) amiga/gui.c ami_gui_splash_open 5192: BitMapObject = 0x000000

The creation code is this:

Code: [Select]

struct Screen *wbscreen = LockPubScreen("Workbench");
BitMapObject,
 BITMAP_SourceFile, "PROGDIR:Resources/splash.png",
 BITMAP_Screen, wbscreen,
 BITMAP_Precision, PRECISION_IMAGE,
#ifndef __amigaos4__
 BITMAP_Width, 400,
 BITMAP_Height, 250,
#endif
BitMapEnd,

Here is what the old ClassAct example code using the default pub screen looks like:

Code: [Select]


      if(screen=LockPubScreen(NULL))
      {  
         /* Make an image out of an IFF file.
          * The image will be included in the window layout, and is
          * used to clip two other images from
          */
         image1=BitMapObject,
            BITMAP_SourceFile,"PROGDIR:buttons.iff",
            BITMAP_OffsetX, 0,
            BITMAP_OffsetY, 0,
            BITMAP_Width, 577,
            BITMAP_Height, 30,
            BITMAP_Screen,screen,
         EndImage;

         if(image1)
         {  
            /* Get the bitmap of the image
             */
            GetAttr(BITMAP_BitMap,image1,(ULONG *)&bitmap);


Have you tried converting splash.png to splash.iff? Maybe the OS3 version of bitmap.image can only handle iff.

[chris]

Have you tried converting splash.png to splash.iff? Maybe the OS3 version of bitmap.image can only handle iff.

Yes, no change.  Snoopy isn't even showing that the file is being attempted to be opened - it's like the tag values are completely wrong or something.

[NovaCoder]

Yes, no change.  Snoopy isn't even showing that the file is being attempted to be opened - it's like the tag values are completely wrong or something.

Try changing it to match the ClassAct code (same tags).