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AuthorTopic: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?  (Read 3553 times)

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Offline gaula92

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2013, 09:59:02 AM »
Windows OS is broken. Every version. It has a nasty, faulty filesystem to start with: it has fragmentation problems I've NEVER experienced in any other OS I've used (and I've used a lot!).
It's unsecure, it degrades with use (wich is..just..so stupid I don't want to see it near me never again),  why would you want to use such a piece of crap?

Do yourself a favor and install Lubuntu instead. No, NOT Ubuntu, but Lubuntu. It has low requeriments and it will work way better. It's way easier to use, really. My mother is 54 and she uses Lubuntu everyday (she never used or understood Amiga, for example).

Seriously, WHY Windows? Don't be so cruel with yourself.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2013, 11:41:54 AM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;723892
That is why Windows 7 is like Windows XP in steroid and I am happy to go for Windows 7 easy.

Windows 8 is Windows 7 on steroids. I never use the start screen and I don't miss the start menu. Other than that it's just better, but you're free to do what you want.
 
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;723916
That's only for crap they sell at places like Best Buy. Dell's business line is still entirely available with Windows 7. Even they're not so stupid as to shoot themselves in the foot that badly! ;)

That isn't because people wouldn't like windows 8 though, that is because businesses have to buy machines that will run the software that keeps their business going. Keeping buggy custom applications working on new versions of an operating system can be tricky, that problem is not just limited to Windows. They might have worked on the previous version of the OS even though they weren't doing things right and any change could affect them. There were even bug fixes in Kickstart 2.04 that affected buggy 1.3 apps.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 11:47:58 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2013, 11:45:34 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;723802
Actually, XP is pretty dead.
If you have a CD that pre-date SP3, you've got to manually install SP3.
It doesn't always work correctly.
And in a little over a year, updates for SP3 stop.

A good run, but it about done.


You can slipstream SP3 into XP on a bootable CD.  You've had to do that for a lot of motherboards since 2009 as they only Support XP SP3.

http://www.pcmech.com/article/slipstream-sp3-into-a-windows-xp-install-cd/
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2013, 11:49:30 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;723939
You can slipstream SP3 into XP on a bootable CD. You've had to do that for a lot of motherboards since 2009 as they only Support XP SP3.
 
http://www.pcmech.com/article/slipstream-sp3-into-a-windows-xp-install-cd/

Yeah, I would always slip stream the service pack and do a fresh install anyway as it uses less disk space.
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2013, 11:51:14 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;723938
Windows 8 is Windows 7 on steroids. I never use the start screen and I don't miss the start menu. Other than that it's just better, but you're free to do what you want.
 

 
That isn't because people wouldn't like windows 8 though, that is because businesses have to buy machines that will run the software that keeps their business going. Keeping custom applications working on new versions of an operating system without recompiling can be tricky, that problem is not just limited to Windows.


?? You don't have to recompile anything for Windows 8.  It's the same base version of Windows as Windows 7 and Vista. (6.0, 6.1 and 6.2.)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 11:53:58 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2013, 12:09:20 PM »
Quote from: gaula92;723932
Windows OS is broken. Every version. It has a nasty, faulty filesystem to start with: it has fragmentation problems I've NEVER experienced in any other OS I've used (and I've used a lot!).
It's unsecure, it degrades with use (wich is..just..so stupid I don't want to see it near me never again),  why would you want to use such a piece of crap?

Do yourself a favor and install Lubuntu instead. No, NOT Ubuntu, but Lubuntu. It has low requeriments and it will work way better. It's way easier to use, really. My mother is 54 and she uses Lubuntu everyday (she never used or understood Amiga, for example).

Seriously, WHY Windows? Don't be so cruel with yourself.


I've used lots of operating systems as well. NTFS is a fine file system, As to fragmentation yes 15 years ago, (It used to be called checker boarding on Unix and Linux and older OSes)
As to security I've had a vanilla XP SP laptop with no AV software or security patches connected directly to my external router for 3 years now Std XP Firewall on (Which I use for torrent work).  

I've never tried Lubuntu.  But the same laptop I spoke of used to be Ubuntu 10 for a little while but it kept freezing on boot randomly.
Good luck to your Mum. Sounds like Lubuntu is useful which is the main thing.

I use Windows because I want to do modern things like encode bluray DVDs and Edit and work with high definition video.  I can't do that with any other OS and when I can its at half the speed I can with my Windows/Intel rig.
 

Offline AAACHIPSET

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2013, 12:22:17 PM »
dead ..well i went from 98 to xp  ..have it on both machines  ..old pent400
an my i3  machine..i  will have to upgrade  ..my xp discs wont install any more  ..microsoft thinks ive used it enuff ...yes i did buy it ...when i went to activate it got a message that the software has been used to much  basically ..an i cant activate it again ..prob stick with xp..just use a cracked copy ..
in my opinion its wrong to disable software that u have paid for an  use ..then  again its microsoft ..what choice do i have..
A500 3.1/8meg/2gigscsi ...wants a 040
CD32/SX1/FMV/FLASHDRIVE/  wants sx32pro
A1200  os3.5 030/50/fpu/mmu/2flashdrives/cd/   indivision coming ..............wants a ppc/060  ACCEL :laughing:
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2013, 07:15:58 PM »
Quote from: AAACHIPSET;723948
dead ..well i went from 98 to xp  ..have it on both machines  ..old pent400
an my i3  machine..i  will have to upgrade  ..my xp discs wont install any more  ..microsoft thinks ive used it enuff ...yes i did buy it ...when i went to activate it got a message that the software has been used to much  basically ..an i cant activate it again ..prob stick with xp..just use a cracked copy ..
in my opinion its wrong to disable software that u have paid for an  use ..then  again its microsoft ..what choice do i have..

Good point there I never thought of it before. Microsoft goes at everyone's head and attacking people about pirating their OS all the time. Well, isn't Microsoft stealing from people too? I mean when you buy a product what gives the company right to come to your home, disable your product so that you are forced to buy the newer model? This is after all YOUR PRODUCT!! THIS IS AFTER ALL YOUR ITEM!! Well, isn't Microsoft doing that? Isn't Microsoft stealing from millions and millions of people every time by no longer supporting their products and forcing people to get rid of their Windows and must buy the newer model? Shouldn't people have choices and not be dragged like sheep with chains around theirs necks to buy the new product?

What happened to our freedom of choice? Sure technically speaking you can just stay with what you have but if you think about it...you are eventually GOING TO BE FORCED to buy whatever Microsoft send your way and like it. As you can see some people LOVE Windows 8...so in the end you are "slave" of Microsoft. You have no choice. You are stuck with what ever Microsoft send you, you are going to upgrade it, you are going to like it, you are going to love it, only because I tell you too. When you buy my Windows it is not yours, it is mine, I can do what the heck with it, your money belongs to me now. That is pretty much what is happening with Microsoft and Windows.

If Windows is really, really, really yours it will not expire like food at a certain amount of years. I mean look at Windows 7, it is only 3.5 years old it is just a baby before Windows 8 came out and now you will eventually MUST upgrade to Windows 8 making Windows 7 leading redundancy.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:19:52 PM by AmigaClassicRule »
 

Offline Ami_GFX

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2013, 07:52:05 PM »
Xp can be very secure. Computer security is as much a question of user behavior as patching the security flaws of the OS. Don't go to pirate or porn sites, don't open email attachements from strangers and even friends sometimes, be careful about the software you put on your computer and you have won more than half the security battle. Put in a good firewall and antivirus on top of this and run your computer in user mode and you're pretty safe from most threats. If you really know your ntfs file permissions, you can improve on the pretty lame default settings that come with the OS and set it up so where files are written, they can't be executed and where they are executed, they can't be written to in user mode and you have a pretty tight system. I do all of this and image my system partitions on 5 laptops running Xp Pro. I've had no malware in over 10 years and the few times I've had to restore the system from an image, it was due to a hardware change or upgrade or software install messing things up.

Xp will live on for years to come. Operating systems don't die, they just slowly--so very slowly--fade away. In the pretty much faded out catagory I would put Windows 95, Windows NT4, OS2, Mac OS 9 and earlier and OSX through Jaguar. Windows 98 and Tiger still linger. Windows 2000 is pretty faded because it was delivered late and quickly replaced by Xp which is essentially an improved version of Win2k. MSDOS survives in a hardware niche for those of us that use it for such things as ROM burners.

I never upgrade the OS on an old machine. I get a new machine designed for the new OS. I can't give up Xp because I need it to run my very expensive printer and scanner combo that isn't supported beyond Xp. This qualifies as a business use. I will be running print jobs with Xp long after 2014 barring natural disasters destroying everything I've got.
A2500 owned since 1993 with A2630/DKB 2632, DKB Megachip, GVP EGS Spectrum, A2320 and GVP HC+8 on the inside and a DCTV on the outside. A4000D with CSPPC, Cybervision 64 and a Flicker Magic flicker fixer. A4000T Toaster Flyer & CSMKII. All systems completly retro and classic and mostly used to do geometic art as in my avatar.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2013, 08:20:38 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;723975
Well, isn't Microsoft stealing from people too? I mean when you buy a product what gives the company right to come to your home, disable your product so that you are forced to buy the newer model?

They don't do that. If you have an old computer running XP today then it will still work in the future. Although it is the first OS that had to be activated online, so it will be interesting what they do about allowing new installs.
 
They might do what Adobe recently did with Creative Suite 2 and put out a new version that no longer requires activation.
 
Providing security updates is another matter.
 
Quote from: Ami_GFX;723979
I never upgrade the OS on an old machine. I get a new machine designed for the new OS. I can't give up Xp because I need it to run my very expensive printer and scanner combo that isn't supported beyond Xp. This qualifies as a business use. I will be running print jobs with Xp long after 2014 barring natural disasters destroying everything I've got.

My five year old laptop came with Vista, I upgraded to 7 and now 8 & it runs fine. Old hardware can be a problem, as long as your hardware came with a vista 32 & 64 bit driver then it's likely to be supported by 7 & 8. But hardware from XP or earlier can be a problem, I used XP mode for testing some old hardware before selling it. Driver support in Linux or MacOS is worse though.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 08:26:20 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2013, 08:56:44 PM »
Quote from: gaula92;723932
Seriously, WHY Windows? Don't be so cruel with yourself.
Why Windows? Maybe because it doesn't make me want to slit my wrists with dependency hell and terrible UI...
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Offline Ami_GFX

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2013, 08:58:35 PM »
Quote
My five year old laptop came with Vista, I upgraded to 7 and now 8 & it runs fine. Old hardware can be a problem, as long as your hardware came with a vista 32 & 64 bit driver then it's likely to be supported by 7 & 8. But hardware from XP or earlier can be a problem, I used XP mode for testing some old hardware before selling it. Driver support in Linux or MacOS is worse though.


It's not a question of will it work or not. It already works well with what it has and the hardware geek in me would rather buy new hardware than mess around with an OS upgrade. I'm also a creature of habit and don't like to have to readjust to a new OS until it's necessary. Even with the Amiga, I'm mostly using OS 3.1 even though I've got a working install of OS 3.9 on another partition in my A4000. I mostly use OS 3.9 for unpacking .lzh files but if I'm just going to turn on the Toaster or use Deluxe Paint or ImageFX, I just boot to 3.1. It boots faster and does most of what I need. My Amigas are mostly used for custom graphic work and I don't need much of what the newer versions of Amiga OS have. I have a Sony Vaio for sound and video and the rest are all IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads--some of the same models that are used on the International space station. Nasa is an entity that is slow to upgrade. This isn't something exclusive to Amigans.

And for the laptop that I use for business which involves a lot of writing, email, printing and scanning, I'm really cautious and conservative and don't install new software very often, much less a new OS.
A2500 owned since 1993 with A2630/DKB 2632, DKB Megachip, GVP EGS Spectrum, A2320 and GVP HC+8 on the inside and a DCTV on the outside. A4000D with CSPPC, Cybervision 64 and a Flicker Magic flicker fixer. A4000T Toaster Flyer & CSMKII. All systems completly retro and classic and mostly used to do geometic art as in my avatar.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2013, 09:10:12 PM »
Quote from: Ami_GFX;723996
And for the laptop that I use for business which involves a lot of writing, email, printing and scanning, I'm really cautious and conservative and don't install new software very often, much less a new OS.

I tend to buy a new hard drive when doing upgrades for that reason. Then you can install all the software you need but switch back to do some real work.
 
Usually I'm ready for a new drive by the time the new OS comes out anyway.
 
I would like new hardware, because this laptop is now quite low powered. It's a 2.5 C2D with an NVidia 8600. In Windows 8 it scores 6.2 for processor and ram, 5.9 for the 1tb WDC drive, with the lowest score of 5.5/5.6 for the graphics/gaming graphics.
 
I tend to always install the latest of everything, although I've never looked at OS3.5/OS3.9.
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2013, 10:22:39 PM »
Quote from: Ami_GFX;723979
Xp can be very secure. Computer security is as much a question of user behavior as patching the security flaws of the OS. Don't go to pirate or porn sites, don't open email attachements from strangers and even friends sometimes, be careful about the software you put on your computer and you have won more than half the security battle. Put in a good firewall and antivirus on top of this and run your computer in user mode and you're pretty safe from most threats. If you really know your ntfs file permissions, you can improve on the pretty lame default settings that come with the OS and set it up so where files are written, they can't be executed and where they are executed, they can't be written to in user mode and you have a pretty tight system. I do all of this and image my system partitions on 5 laptops running Xp Pro. I've had no malware in over 10 years and the few times I've had to restore the system from an image, it was due to a hardware change or upgrade or software install messing things up.
 
Xp will live on for years to come. Operating systems don't die, they just slowly--so very slowly--fade away. In the pretty much faded out catagory I would put Windows 95, Windows NT4, OS2, Mac OS 9 and earlier and OSX through Jaguar. Windows 98 and Tiger still linger. Windows 2000 is pretty faded because it was delivered late and quickly replaced by Xp which is essentially an improved version of Win2k. MSDOS survives in a hardware niche for those of us that use it for such things as ROM burners.
 
I never upgrade the OS on an old machine. I get a new machine designed for the new OS. I can't give up Xp because I need it to run my very expensive printer and scanner combo that isn't supported beyond Xp. This qualifies as a business use. I will be running print jobs with Xp long after 2014 barring natural disasters destroying everything I've got.

 
Hey, can you give me the steps and software I need (if possible) in case for some reason I am unable to upgrade OS by the end of 2014 and I am still stuck using Windows XP for another year or so, to protect my computer from hackers, viruses, etc? (I like the NTFS, thingy) As long as I am not forced to reformat my HD or install Windows again.
 

Offline Ami_GFX

Re: Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2013, 09:26:21 PM »
That is a bit much for one post, but here is the esseence of it. This is not something I came up with. I got it from a US Navy manual on securing computer systems running WinNT 4.0. In the ntfs file system of the time, file permissions were much simpler than in the current version but the basic principle still holds and was modeled on file permissions in UNIX systems.

To set file permissions manually in Windows Xp, you need the Pro version. In the tools menu in explorer select folder options and select the view tab. At the bottom of the menu deselect "Use Simple File Sharing". You will now be able to manually set file permissions on any level from a whole drive to a single file. You do this by right clicking on the file or folder you want to set permissions on in explorer. The permissions are set in the security tab. This is the easy part, setting the permissions and getting them right is complicated in ntfs. I never use deny. The basic structure for a file or folder I want to have executible files in is full control for admistrator and system and users get read and execute, list folder contents, and read. The folders that get this permission are Windows and Program Files. All the other folders are set to read/list folder contents/write/delete. Delete permissions are set in the advanced tab. You also have to reset permissions on all child objects in the advanced menu to change permissions on the contents of the subfolders and files. I also delete all users and groups except Adminstrators, system, users, and power users. There is a default "everyone" group that will override everything unless you delete it.

I wouldn't recommend doing this on your main system until you get a feel for it. It will take some trial and error to get it right and some software won't work without further file permission tweaking. Microsoft made this way to complicated as far as I'm concerned. In a Unix/linux system, all there is is read, write and execute in 3 groups and that is all you need.

Doing this makes a system more secure but much less convenient. That is the trade off. It is satisfying to see an error message because some piece of malware is trying to write itself into a protected area but it also means that you have to log on as an administrator--or run an installation program as an administrator--to install software.


You won't need to reformat your driver or reinstall your system but it might be a good idea to repartition your system into seperate system and data partitions if you want to use imaging software and image your system. The best imaging and partitioning software that I've found for free is the Easus suite. Imaging is a the best way to back a system up. I started doing it after losing days of my time trying to get a system to work right and trying to trace down what piece of software or what registry entry messed things up. It is much simpler not to even try and wait a few minutes as the image of the system is restored. The built in system restore in Xp will work in most cases pretty well but imaging is better.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 05:27:15 PM by Ami_GFX »
A2500 owned since 1993 with A2630/DKB 2632, DKB Megachip, GVP EGS Spectrum, A2320 and GVP HC+8 on the inside and a DCTV on the outside. A4000D with CSPPC, Cybervision 64 and a Flicker Magic flicker fixer. A4000T Toaster Flyer & CSMKII. All systems completly retro and classic and mostly used to do geometic art as in my avatar.