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Offline SirGrahamTopic starter

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Installing a big hard disk
« on: December 18, 2012, 06:56:55 PM »
Hello!!!

I have an SCSI-II 74 Gb Seagate HDD ready to be set up on my Amiga. It's now plugged and has SCSI ID = 3

SCSIConfig detects that the HDD is bigger that 4Gb, says that I need  TD64>= 44.4 FFS patch and asks me whether I want to limit the HDD  size to 4 Gb. I answer no. As far as I see, I can perform a low level  format I haven't done, though.

On the other hand, I've installed PFS3 5.3 but HDInstTools says 'No devices found' once and again.  Please, is PFS3 working on my system?

PFS3 should govern SCSI data movement over Workbench, I think, but what I  have now is that Workbench recognizes the HDD in a limited way and PFS3 doesn't even that.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 07:03:11 PM by SirGraham »
 

Offline mechy

Re: Installing a big hard disk
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 01:20:30 AM »
Quote from: SirGraham;719594
Hello!!!

I have an SCSI-II 74 Gb Seagate HDD ready to be set up on my Amiga. It's now plugged and has SCSI ID = 3

SCSIConfig detects that the HDD is bigger that 4Gb, says that I need  TD64>= 44.4 FFS patch and asks me whether I want to limit the HDD  size to 4 Gb. I answer no. As far as I see, I can perform a low level  format I haven't done, though.

On the other hand, I've installed PFS3 5.3 but HDInstTools says 'No devices found' once and again.  Please, is PFS3 working on my system?

PFS3 should govern SCSI data movement over Workbench, I think, but what I  have now is that Workbench recognizes the HDD in a limited way and PFS3 doesn't even that.

Thank you.


You never need to low level any HD. dont confuse this with a regular workbench format. Modern drives dont need low leveling.
I also dont recommend you use HDinsttools, it does weird things to the RDB and is not exactly compatible if memory serves me right.

Use Hdtoolbox(or the one with os3.9) (os3.9 has patches for big drives). You need to go into the icon info and edit it for the scsi.device you are using so it finds the drive. You dont mention what hardware you are using,so a bit hard to help.

In any case, keep the first partition small, say 1GB or so and you can make the others bigger. pfs3 direct scsi should do for you.
 

Offline SirGrahamTopic starter

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 06:32:35 PM »
This is my machine:

A4000T
Motherboard: Micronik 6960 Rev 4.0
Phase 5 digital Products CyberStorm Mk2 68060 50 mHz
Phase 5 digital Products CyberSCSI MK2
RAM:    64 mb FAST and 2 mb Chip
CyberVision 64/3D with scandoubler
ImpactVision 24
HDD: IBM OEM SCSI-2 2150 mb
CD-ROM: ultraplex 40max
Workbench 3.1

Trying to install: Seagate 74 gb HDD with PFS3

Directory L has several PFS3's filesystems like PFS3, PFS3-020, PFS3-060 and several more, most of them copied by hand by me.

I've edited HDToolBox.info and tried several SCSI device names with no success. Please, do you know the name of the device I should use? It was scsi.device, for which, by the way, I have found no file at all. With scsi.device, HDToolBox founds no drives, not even my 2 gb HDD. What can I do?

Thanks.
 

Offline Robert17

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 08:41:40 PM »
I Think you need to set it to CybScsi.device in order to see your drives,

Are you familiar with installing file systems etc?

Robert.
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Offline SirGrahamTopic starter

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 08:47:28 PM »
I'll try that. I have never installed a hard disk into an Amiga. Several weeks ago I did'nt even know PFS3 existed.
 

Offline SirGrahamTopic starter

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 09:29:50 PM »
With cybscsi.device the system recognizes the HDD. :)

Now, I have to choose drive type but none of them seems to be the best. For example, with SEAGATE ST51080N I have only 1 gb with two partitions. I can create a new type but I don't know its parameters. I also clicked the 'Read Configuration' button but says the size can't be read.

PFS3 is NOT in the list of file systems so I've added it (PFS3-060) with DosType= 0x444f5303 but it says 'International (FFS)' in the file system name.:eek:

Any ideas?
 

Offline Thomas

Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 09:54:10 PM »
Quote
Now, I have to choose drive type but none of them seems to be the best. For example, with SEAGATE ST51080N I have only 1 gb with two partitions.


If you had an original WB 3.1 install disk, there should be no models in the list. What you see is the list of harddrives the previous owner(s) of the disk installed. Surely none of those match your specific harddrive. This list is completely useless. Nobody ever installs the same model of harddrives twice in his life.



Quote
I can create a new type but I don't know its parameters. I also clicked the 'Read Configuration' button but says the size can't be read.


What are the parameters HDToolbox uses after Read Config?
And what is the exact model number of your HDD so that one can search for documentation on the net?


Quote
PFS3 is NOT in the list of file systems so I've added it (PFS3-060) with DosType= 0x444f5303 but it says 'International (FFS)' in the file system name.


444f5303 is the identifier for FFS International. Why did you enter it? Please read the documentation which comes with PFS3. It describes very detailed how the file system is installed correctly.

Offline SirGrahamTopic starter

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 10:03:55 PM »
Thank you, Thomas.

HDD is Seagate ST373207LW. I have the PDF manual I used in order to set SCSI ID to 3.

I didn't type 444f530. It was the value by default, I guess.

I'll check the rest tomorrow.

Thank you again.
 

Offline Thomas

Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 11:56:46 PM »
The PDF says that the drive has a total number of blocks of 143,374,744. So you should select values for cylinders, heads and sectors (per track) so that cylinders * heads * sectors becomes next to 143,374,744 but not bigger than that.

Also make sure that heads * sectors is next to 2000, otherwise not enough space will be reserved for the partition table.  heads * sectors (per track) is the value for sectors per cylinder.

Offline psxphill

Re: Installing a big hard disk
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 01:00:19 AM »
Quote from: mechy;719638
You never need to low level any HD.

In the old days you bought an ST506 hard drive, which acted like a big floppy disk drive and then you had to buy a controller to go along with it. Like floppy disks they then needed to be formatted and the controller defines the format of the data. Each manufacturer could do things differently, so if you swapped controllers you needed to format it again.
 
It's done at the factory now, low level formatting hasn't been required for 20 years. i.e. since the drive controller was shrunk and stuck to the bottom of the drive.
 
You usually don't swap controllers between drives these days, apart from data recovery. In which case you have to swap it with an identical one. Partly because the formatting is different, but also because now there is no need for a standardised connection to the hard drive and lastly because the controller firmware is stored on a hidden part of the drive.
 
If you could low level format the entire drive, then you'd wipe out the controller firmware. At the factory they can bootstrap a drive from scratch, but they keep that secret.
 
Hard drives also do transparent remapping of bad sectors now & the bad block map is also stored on a hidden part of the drive. In the old days the drive would come with a sticker that listed the bad areas and after a low level format you would be prompted to type it in. Now they don't advertise how many bad blocks there are and low level formatting would lose the hidden copy on the disk.
 
The SCSI command for low level formatting these days probably just writes a pattern to the good data sectors on the drive and doesn't actually do a low level format.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: Installing a big hard disk
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 01:16:31 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;719751
At the factory they can bootstrap a drive from scratch


Can you explain that? ;)

Especially if it helps to start a drive with a controller from another drive.
 

Offline Robert17

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Re: Installing a big hard disk
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 08:18:45 AM »
You may be better off using PFS-060ds (Direct SCSI) If you're running Workbench 3.1, otherwise you'll be limited to just under 4gb of Hard disk space :-

When adding the filesystem to the RDB, if you're not using the standard FastFileSystem, you have to change the identifier number to suit the selected filesystem,

If you are running OS 3.1 or earlier, you may be better off using 'HDInstTools' From Aminet as 3.1's HDToolbox doesn't always recognise large drives, and may read them as a totally different size.

Let us know if you're using 3.1 or above and we can go from there :-)

Robert.
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Offline Bamiga2002

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 08:44:58 AM »
Just use PFS3-All-In-One and be done with it :).
CD32
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Offline Thomas

Re: Installing a big hard disk
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 09:48:31 AM »
Quote from: Robert17;719776
You may be better off using PFS-060ds (Direct SCSI) If you're running Workbench 3.1, otherwise you'll be limited to just under 4gb of Hard disk space :-


This is not true. He is running his SCSI drive on a Phase5 controller which supports TD64. Together with PFS3 this is the ideal combination without limits. The DS version wil work, too, though.



Quote
If you are running OS 3.1 or earlier, you may be better off using 'HDInstTools' From Aminet


This is not true, either. HDInstTools is incompatible to all other partitioning programs. It should not be used.

Offline Robert17

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Re: Installing a big hard disc
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2012, 01:36:38 PM »
If you use HdInstTools from the beginning and remember to only use it then compatibility with other programs isn't an issue, I think it is correct that you will have problems reading the size of and partitioning larger drives with HDToolbox from Workbench 3.1.

I was working on the assumption that TD64 Wasn't yet installed so thought that using SCSI Direct from the start would be easier and give the same desired results.

Robert.
Member of the Lincs Amiga Group, UK :-)