Not a happy bunny!!

[Llamaman]

:rant: alert!

Well I must say how disappointed I have been with my Amiga 1200.

I  bought it off Ebay just before Christmas 2011 and it came with a 4GB CF  Hard Drive fitted. This is my last Amiga computer EVER!

I have never used such a frustrating OS before and I fail to see why so many owners rave about them.

Admittedly I have been 'spoiled' with easy-peasy PC's for the last 15 years....but that may explain my gripes with the Amiga.

I  cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to  think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple  thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc.  Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it,  that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without  having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you  have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?

Why the  need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage  space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.

I,  like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with  emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to  use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with  an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!

On the  Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either  legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to  extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an  emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?

Amiga  fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think  that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never  considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves.  And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's.  Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so  and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next  generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life  simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.

I have tried  installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine  and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them  had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the  end.

[desiv]

Calm down..
Lets see what we've got..  Complaints about your A1200.. OK..

I  cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to  think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple  thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc.  Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it,  that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without  having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you  have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?

Ah yes, like the way we just unzip Windows, Linux or MacOS to install them..  er..
Or you could do this:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=883

Moving on..

Why the  need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage  space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.

Hmm this isn't a1200 specific, but...
ADFs and HDF files aren't really compressed.
They are concatenated into a single file.
You can compress them further to see that they aren't really compressed..

You can actually use WinUAE with a standard directory of files, but you lose some Amiga filesystem attributes..  A good way to handle that is with a HDF file (redundant?) that handles that and keeps the PC dir structure clean...

I,  like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with  emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to  use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with  an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!

Hmmm.. Did you forget you were complaining about your A1200?  This is another WinUAE complaint..

Have you seen/heard of AmigaForever!
I think it's a product right up your alley!!!!
It's all pointy/clicky and draggy/droppy..

On the  Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either  legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to  extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an  emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?

I'm not sure what you've been doing..
I use WHDload packs (KGWHD) (which are these weird archaic compression format called ZIP files) and use them on my A1200, which is real hardware..

Amiga  fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think  that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never  considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves.  And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's.  Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so  and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next  generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life  simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.

All of them??  Wow..
As long as we're not generalizing or anything...

I have tried  installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine  and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them  had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the  end.

Again, AmigaForever makes this REALLY EASY!!!  You should check into it...

Some people aren't cut out for the real hardware...
That's OK...
You have options..

desiv

[Duce]

Comparing apples and oranges, really.  Comparing a system from the 90's to a modern commodity PC isn't a fair comparison by any stretch.

Old hardware will always give you hassles, and expecting an old OS to work in a way similar to Windows is crazy.  Most people like the Amiga OS variants because they are different, and it's got nothing to do with keeping up with the times.  I use my Amiga's for fun, as a hobby.  I'm not delusional enough to think it they even remotely do everything I ask my Windows machines to do.

For those that don't enjoy the legacy machines, there's plenty of options with OS4, MOS and AROS.

[Damion]

I think many actually enjoy the build/customization process. Amiga OS isn't too user friendly by default, but it's also ancient.

I recently put a 1200 together mainly for WHDLoad, and didn't have too much trouble getting things setup.

1. Made a boot disk with HDInstTool, PFS3, and FAT95/CFD

2. Used said disk to format and partition hard disk, reboot

3. Coped contents of 3.1 "Workbench" disk to bootable partition, installed files for CF use, reboot

4. Had already built and tweaked 3.1 install done on the A4000 (could sub UAE here), transferred WB install and games via PCMCIA card, reboot and enjoy

Not that my Amigas haven't caused endless headaches in other areas...

[paul1981]

Was this your first Amiga?
I have to agree with you though, to strangers of Workbench it's all a bit complicated. There's definite room for improvement on the "accessibility" front regarding new potential users however. I think general Amiga users like to tinker with the Workbench though and most of the enjoyment comes with the tinkering and building up your own "Workbench" (no easy task).
These packs are supposed to be easy, but I admit not using them on real Amiga's - I use them under WinUAE emulation only. My Workbench is of my own creation and that's how I like it, but it does take an age to build a usable Workbench (a million aminet downloads). I enjoyed it though.

OS3.9 should be a fairly straight forward install (from CD bear in mind), but of course you would need a CD drive hooking up to your 1200 first. But by the way I read your post, I'm sure you'll be putting that 1200 back on Ebay. One positive is that it will sell, and I'm sure for the same price you bought it at.

[bbond007]

:rant: alert!
I have tried  installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine  and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them  had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the  end.

first off AmigaSYS (and AmiKit) are not for real Amigas....

and dont even think about it unless you have a 060 and a GFX card... and even then its probably not going to run well.

ClassicWB is for classics (hence the name) such as your 1200, which is why it worked for you...

When I configured my 1200 the last few times I got everything working under WinUAE (AmigaForever) how I wanted.

I had partitioned and formatted my disk on the real 1200.  I put it into the pc with an IDE USB adapter, mounted the HD under WinUAE and just issued the command "copy sys: newsys: all"

How could that be any simpler? I mean you are dealing with 20 year old hardware (probably pairing it with modern hardware like CF cards) running an OS with thousands of crazy hacks and patches. Lets not even get into all of the quality control problems Commodore had on the machines when they were NEW...

I guess one mechanic would say that a 1960s auto is simpler than a modern vehicle because if breaks its simple to diagnose because overall its not a very complex system.

Another might say that a modern auto is simpler because if it breaks the computer tells you what is wrong and you don't need to be constantly be adjusting the points and condenser, timing, carburator, etc. for optimal operation.

:rant: alert!
Amiga  fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think  that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never  considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves.  And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's.  Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so  and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next  generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life  simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.

Where did you happen to find someone that thinks AmigaOS is still the most superior OS? I'm sure you'll find many people who will say that it WAS better than DOS or MAC or Atari  - back in the day...

Of the few still using AmigaOS, I would be surprised if you actually found ONE that would claim that it is a viable option for modern day computing, let alone better than any contemporary OS.

All I can say is that no Amiga I have ever own has become corrupted by not shutting down properly -> leading to a complete reinstall of the OS.

[Matt_H]

:rant: alert!

Well I must say how disappointed I have been with my Amiga 1200.

I  bought it off Ebay just before Christmas 2011 and it came with a 4GB CF  Hard Drive fitted. This is my last Amiga computer EVER!

I have never used such a frustrating OS before and I fail to see why so many owners rave about them.

Admittedly I have been 'spoiled' with easy-peasy PC's for the last 15 years....but that may explain my gripes with the Amiga.

Sorry you've been having trouble. Let me see if I can explain some of the weird logic that we long-time users sometimes forget.

I  cannot for the life of me understand why so many of the fanboys seem to  think it's a great idea to make it such hard work to do such a simple  thing like install a new desktop replacement, such as ClassicWB, etc.  Why not make a straight forward download (or even a zip download) of it,  that can be installed from floppy/CF card direct to an Amiga, without  having to use WinUAE? Not all PC's can run WinUAE and what about if you  have used a modern mobile phone to download ClassicWB?

Now, now, no need to use the f-word

The reason WinUAE (or any UAE - WinUAE just happens to be the easiest and most fully-featured) is used so much is because most new users don't have the ability to download things directly to their Amiga. You need a network card, networking stack, browser, etc. The Amiga is old enough that these things aren't a given. For new users, it's often easier to prep the Amiga environment under UAE and then plug the CF card or hard drive back into the Amiga.

Why the  need for .adf/hdf files? Most modern PC's have large enough storage  space on them, that they don't need compressed files anymore.

These are analogous to ROM images for other emulated platforms. They contain fixed images of data. Emulating a full hard drive allows you to use the Amiga's filesystem bits. These often get lost when transferring files from FAT32 to NTFS to HFS+ to the Amiga, and problems with the filesystem bits can cause problems with many programs.

ADFs came about because PC floppy drives can't read Amiga-formatted disks, so the solution was to create a disk image to use in an emulated floppy drive. Good decompression programs (7zip, or The Unarchiver on Mac) can extract files from ADFs, but you'll lose the filesystem bits this way.

If you install diskimage.device on your Amiga, you can handle these virtual floppies just like real disks (it can be tough to configure, though). You can also use ADFBlitzer to dump those images back to real floppies.

I,  like many people, don't or can't be bothered with faffing about with  emulators, for whatever reason -- and it's not a crime not to want to  use one. If I want to download a certain program on my PC, it comes with  an EXE file that I just click and install.....Simples!!

On the  Amiga?......Oh yes, install WinUAE, find a copy of some ROM's, either  legally, or not. Then use some archaic looking decompression software to  extract the program with. What's wrong with not having to use an  emulator?! Why not not just allow a direct install to real hardware?

If you could download directly to real hardware, that's exactly what you would do. Well, after extracting the .lha archive - analogous to extracting a .zip. Self-extracting archives never really caught on on the Amiga, but there are some. Also bear in mind that most of these "distros" you've been trying were developed with emulation users in mind, in the days before UAE had networking support, to give them quick access to heaps of programs. It used to be a lot harder to get Amiga software onto an emulation environment. Now the inverse is true.

Make sure you have Directory Opus on your machine. It's a 2-pane file manager. Then it's just a simple matter of opening the directory of your archive in one window, opening the extraction destination in the other, clicking once on the archive, and then clicking in the destination window. Boom. Archive extracted. (But make sure the program LhA is in the directory SYS:C first).

Amiga  fanboys remind me so much of Linux fanboys........they seem to think  that there chosen OS is the most superior in the universe and have never  considered moving with the times and making life easy for themselves.  And no, I'm not preaching that they should ditch their Amiga's for PC's.  Just that they acknowledge the Amiga as being old hat and deservedly so  and that if they want to keep the platform alive for the next  generation who fancies a bit of retro action, then at least make life  simple for them when it comes to installing stuff.

Hey, watch it. We're not as delusional a bunch as you might think. Ten years ago, maybe, but most of us now have a healthy recognition of what the Amiga is and isn't. I grew up with it, so to me it always will be "what a computer should be", but that's not a widely held view and I recognize that.

I have tried  installing AmigaSYS, ClassicWB (various versions), and MagicWB on mine  and only the latter worked satisfactory enough to use. The rest of them  had such arse about face install routines, that I gave up on them in the  end.

MagicWB was created during the Amiga's commercial lifespan and is intended for use on real hardware. But it's really just an icon pack - not much depth to it. It's great for getting a sharp look out of a machine with limited resources, though.

[kd7ota]

Remember, Amiga isn't meant to take over the world. It is for us who grew up on them and appreciate having one.  If you enjoy retro/classic computing, then by all means give it a try.  Sorry it frustrated you.  Sell the Amiga to someone else.

[amiman99]

I got ClassicWB installed on almost all of my Amigas (see my signature), by following instructions I was able to install it w/o a hitch.
You have A1200, that's the easiest one of all to install anything using PCMCIA-CF adapters.

You did not say what do you want to do with your Amiga, is it games, music, graphics?

Actually, you don't need to install any of the WB packs to get stuff working, just install programs you need and be done with it. The time will come when you are more comfortable with the OS and start to customize it.

Good luck.

[runequester]

Let's put this into a little context. We're talking about a computer OS from 1992 (3.0)
 
Care to show me how to completely replace the shell of windows 3.1 ? You know, back from when you had to keep track of 3 different types of memory just to make sure pacman would run.

[SACC-guy]

"If you could download directly to real hardware,"

I read this OP as this! He wants to download on his pc...files for his amiga AND he really doesn't understand the hardware(floppy) limits.

I think, It's a issue all new and old amiga users.

[rvo_nl]

Exactly my thought. He downloads adf images (games, perhaps?) and tries to unpack them somehow on his real Amiga. Possible, ofcourse, but not very convenient. I guess he is much better off with a registered WHDload and a bit of Googl'ing around.. Or indeed even Amiga Forever.

[Robert17]

I see you're in Nottingham, You could stop into the Lincs Amiga Group sometime? I'm sure we can help with the problems you're having with your 1200 :-)

Our next meetings in Saturday September 1st.

Robert.

[spirantho]

Can I just add one to the "What's all this about emulators?!" vote?
Why are you trying to use WinUAE to do anything? You don't need to, at least not if you're using the Amiga properly.

Either way it's not fair to blame the Amiga 1200 and AmigaOS for perceived shortcomings in WinUAE.

It seems to me you have some pretty fundamental misunderstandings about what the Amiga can do, at least that's what all this talk of WinUAE suggests. There's no need to go anywhere near WinUAE at all.

Best advice is to take a deep breath, and start again. Forget all this WinUAE nonsense, and ask the folk here who are mostly kindly and helpful, what it is exactly you're trying to do. Then we can help you to enjoy the Amiga - without WinUAE or any other emulators.

[Lord Aga]

:rant: alert!

You are absolutely right. I feel for you and volunteer to take the burden of Amiga off of you. I will happily pay the postage and package costs.

Cheers !