Licensing Kickstart ROMs for Raspberry Pi

[number6]

Did you forget about Cloanto's license?  So much for exclusively.

I believe cgutjahr is speaking about Amiga Inc. and Hyperion. That's not where the original Cloanto license came from, as you well know. I'll let him clarify that bit.

#6

[cgutjahr]

Did you forget about Cloanto's license?  So much for exclusively.

No I didn't. If the original poster is legit, he's searching for a way to distribute Kickstart ROMs with/for the Raspberry Pi. Distributing an emulator package on DVD is probably not what he has in mind - but that's all Cloanto have to offer.

And please don't get nervous that CUSA might not be able to distribute proper ROMs. They're not going to do that, ever. They wouldn't even know legit ROMs if they bit them in the ass. You may keep daydreaming about it as much as you want, but it's not going to happen. Period.

[Andre.Siegel]

Distributing an emulator package on DVD is probably not what he has in mind - but that's all Cloanto have to offer.

Actually, they are offering various editions of Amiga Forever. The value edition costs 9.95 EUR(incl. VAT) and is available as a digital download only. One would assume that volume customers should be able to negotiate a more favorable per-unit price.

[desiv]

Actually, they are offering various editions of Amiga Forever.

Yeah, I would think Cloanto "could" be fairly creative with the distribution.

It's too bad they don't have a "FULL" version of Amiga Forever that runs on Linux (based on E-UAE or ?).
If so, as that's what is most likely to power any Amiga on the Pi, they'd be more likely to work out a deal...

I can even see something that's basically just the kickstarts with UAE and maybe an AD of some kind in the launcher encouraging people to look at their more feature complete product.

But that's less likely to be successful if you telling people who are running a Linux based solution on a box that won't run Windows to "upgrade" to the Windows version.. ;-)

If they are looking at doing something VERY specific tho, such as including an version of UAE that is configured to only run Elite, and that maybe has an ad for AmigaForever..  That might be considered a win-win...

(Would be nicer if there was a full Amiga Forever for UAE tho, and I run and love Amiga Forever..  It's a great wrapper around a great piece of software.  Just that Pi won't run it..)

desiv

[dammy]

No I didn't. If the original poster is legit, he's searching for a way to distribute Kickstart ROMs with/for the Raspberry Pi. Distributing an emulator package on DVD is probably not what he has in mind - but that's all Cloanto have to offer.

Like Cloanto can't make a deal for the kickstart images alone.

And please don't get nervous that CUSA might not be able to distribute proper ROMs. They're not going to do that, ever. They wouldn't even know legit ROMs if they bit them in the ass. You may keep daydreaming about it as much as you want, but it's not going to happen. Period.

Like I would expect you to know jack on what C=USA's contractual options are?

[SpeedGeek]

The topic of who is the legal owner of AmigaOS has now become so complicated it could lead to endless debate! If the theory that Amiga Inc. did not properly obtain the intellectual property rights from Gateway who never got them from Escom holds true, then the Hyperion license for OS4 is not valid and the H&P license for OS3.5 & OS3.9 is not valid either.

Possible conclusion, unless their license was obtained from C= none of these party's have a right to sell or distribute AmigaOS!

[cgutjahr]

Like Cloanto can't make a deal for the kickstart images alone.

They haven't done so for the last fifteen years they've been selling Amiga Forever - draw your own conclusions.

Like I would expect you to know jack on what C=USA's contractual options are?

I know Barry.

Possible conclusion

Look, I'm not happy about the situation as it is - but ESCOM did buy the rights, I have no doubt about it (and neither did they, or anybody else in the community - until recently). Heck, they bought the whole company. Even if there is a hole in the paperwork (which is not proven by the outcome of the lawsuit in Germany), trying to use that against any ESCOM follow-ups would just be as petty and miserable as the performance of said ESCOM follow-ups.

And AmigaOS still wouldn't be "free", there would still be an owner, and he would still be as dumb and greedy as all other owners have been.

[number6]

And AmigaOS still wouldn't be "free", there would still be an owner, and he would still be as dumb and greedy as all other owners have been.

Dunno. There was one that contacted Pluritas about buying the IP. Weird guy though. Actually had trust, communicated with people constantly, believed in doing something for everyone's benefit.
I always assumed that's why he got stabbed in the back. We can't afford to have that kind of attitude from management.

#6

[cgutjahr]

Dunno. There was one that contacted Pluritas about buying the IP.

As you said, he didn't end up as an owner - and I agree: go figure

But in this hypothetical scenario, we're talking about a guy who's searching for a legal loophole, forces another entity that thinks it has rightfully obtained some IP into a lawsuit and simply steals the IP from them.

Oh wait, that's not hypothetical at all... But still, that is the kind of person who would end up owning AmigaOS. I'm not sure that would be an improvement.

[number6]

As you said, he didn't end up as an owner - and I agree: go figure

Well, in his case he committed the cardinal sin of thinking this was a real business and asked for an NDA.
But I don't think that mattered much since all they wanted was for people to submit business plans, since they had none of their own.

#6

[NGNAmiga]

I contacted Petro T. Tyschtschenko the other day and he just got back to me with the following about Amiga IP.


My understanding is that Gateway is the owner.
 
 best regards  Petro T. Tyschtschenko

[bloodline]

I contacted Petro T. Tyschtschenko the other day and he just got back to me with the following about Amiga IP.


My understanding is that Gateway is the owner.
 
 best regards  Petro T. Tyschtschenko

Yes, this is already known. The question is who owns the copyright of the Amiga Operating System ROMs and libraries

(Not that it really matters now we have a 68k version of AROS)

[polyp2000]

There is one quick way to find out and that is to start using it and wait until someone rears their head with a C+D ... at that point you can start to discuss the licensing terms.

[wawrzon]

Yes, this is already known. The question is who owns the copyright of the Amiga Operating System ROMs and libraries

(Not that it really matters now we have a 68k version of AROS)

apparently that isnt always a valid solution for companies. here someone made aros68k run on a coldfire industrial board, but apparently was prohibited even to show demo it on youtube, because of the license which isnt gpl.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=36055&forum=17&start=200&viewmode=flat&order=0
 post 214:

Okay everyone,

I have the verdict regarding the project.

Here's the story:

Today, before lunch I asked my immediate supervisor if I could take some pics of the prototype. He replied, "You can take pictures and video of the screen, but not the hardware, because that hardware is a special run for one of our clients. It is not intended to be marketed to the general public." I said okay, fine. I was going to wait until lunchtime, and then do the pics and video of the screen while the board was in operation. Lunch time arrived, but before I could do it, my supervisor asked me to come with him to talk with the president.

The president asked me about my project, and I told him that I made "an emulator for a 1980's computer from Commodore, based on the Motorola 68000." He asked me, "Is all of the code your own work?" I told him that the firmware and the bootstrap was all mine, the most of the FPGA code and some of the Aros code was mine, the rest was already there. He then asked, "What license is the source code available under? GPL? BSD?" I then told him that part of the FPGA code was GPL, while Aros was APL. He said, "Affero or Apache Public License?", I replied that Aros was a custom license.

He then replied, "Unfortunately, I cannot allow you to display our hardware running ANY code that isn't licensed under an OSI recognized license, for legal reasons." He then proceeded, "Imagine if an IBM engineer posted a video on YouTube of an IBM machine running OS X from Apple? Apple's legal team would file a lawsuit against IBM within 10 minutes of it going live."

He then went on to say that if I made my own OS or software of whatever, they would offer it on the company FTP for our customers, but it would have to be ALL my code or under an OSI license, no exceptions. He then said that he thought it was a nice concept and that I am a talented programmer, and perhaps I should consider making a project that I could call my own.

So now I have to find something GPL to run on the prototype, write my own OS (i'll be done when Hell is done freezing over) or scrap everything.

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome... I'm at a blank.

post 284 in the same thread contains a link to a video running emutos on the same device instad, which was approved for licensing reasons.

@wawa

The video is up... http://youtu.be/mrBvJozVpcA

given thats all for real, but it seems so.

[bloodline]

apparently that isnt always a valid solution for companies. here someone made aros68k run on a coldfire industrial board, but apparently was prohibited even to show demo it on youtube, because of the license which isnt gpl.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=36055&forum=17&start=200&viewmode=flat&order=0
 post 214:

post 284 in the same thread contains a link to a video running emutos on the same device instad, which was approved for licensing reasons.

given thats all for real, but it seems so.

AROS public licence is just the Apache Public licence with the relevant terms adjusted for reference to AROS... But I guess not a lot of people know that :-/

[dammy]

They haven't done so for the last fifteen years they've been selling Amiga Forever - draw your own conclusions.

I would chalk that up to no one asking who went through with a contract.

I know Barry.

And your a mind reader, gotcha.

Look, I'm not happy about the situation as it is - but ESCOM did buy the rights, I have no doubt about it (and neither did they, or anybody else in the community - until recently). Heck, they bought the whole company. Even if there is a hole in the paperwork (which is not proven by the outcome of the lawsuit in Germany), trying to use that against any ESCOM follow-ups would just be as petty and miserable as the performance of said ESCOM follow-ups.

And AmigaOS still wouldn't be "free", there would still be an owner, and he would still be as dumb and greedy as all other owners have been.

Why don't you go ask the Bahama Court appointed Trustee for C=?  If someone else had owned the kickstart (or the rest of the OS for that matter), they would have been screaming about violating their IP when ESCOM produced additional Amigas and sold off Amiga to Gateway.  Or is it to your belief that the Bahama Courts still retain control of that IP?