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Author Topic: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac  (Read 104689 times)

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Offline runequester

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #104 on: November 05, 2012, 04:30:53 AM »
Quote from: LoadWB;713927
Social commentary... okay, I'll bite.  If nobody worked for profit, then everyone would have to work until the day they die as they would have been unable to accumulate wealth necessary to subsist after his or her own working age or ability to work comes to an end.  Additionally, since profit is part of the process which creates wealth, a profiting entity can therefore provide for others if he or she desires (charity,) including worker compensation beyond the actual value of the labor provided if so desired (extra wages, bonuses, parties, etc.)

While evil profiteers exist, profit in and of itself is not evil.  No more than the hammer which builds the house is evil because of its ability to be used as a lethal weapon.


Profit is that amount of labour that the worker has stolen from him :swords:

Whether an item is sold for profit or not has nothing to do with whether the worker can retire or not.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2012, 06:24:31 AM »
Quote from: runequester;713928
Profit is that amount of labour that the worker has stolen from him :swords:

The is the standard buffet.  If a worker deems his labor worth $10 per hour, and he is thus paid, it is not theft if the item is sold for $11.  Should the worker decide that his labor is worth more but that is unattainable in his current situation, then he has the right and the ability to change his situation by taking his assets (his experience and his labor) to another producer or to begin producing on his own.

Quote
Whether an item is sold for profit or not has nothing to do with whether the worker can retire or not.

Sure it does.  Profit does not occur just at the point of final sale but at all points of production.  This is partly what a value-added tax is meant to curtail.  If a worker needs $10 an hour to make his expenses and he earns $10 per hour, then he possesses the ability to save up for neither charity nor retirement.  If he makes $11 per hour then he has $1 to put aside for his own purposes, be it immediate involvement, charity, or retirement.  To accommodate this the widget he produces would be sold at an amount more than the value of his labor.  Additionally, the widget will incur an added value to facilitate profit at the level above his, and so on up the supply chain.

Contrary to over a hundred years of ideological thinking, profit is not evil.  I will go even further to say that profit is what allows us, all of us, to maintain our own personal lives and hobbies.  For if we never made profit on our labor or production, if we lived to provide only for our needs and the needs of others, then we would do nothing but labor from the time we wake until the time we rest.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 07:51:19 AM by LoadWB »
 

Offline Blinx123

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #106 on: November 05, 2012, 09:26:10 AM »
Quote from: runequester;713928

Whether an item is sold for profit or not has nothing to do with whether the worker can retire or not.


It does, actually.

Without profit, chances are the company wouldn't exist long enough to make it's employees make ends meet
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Offline persia

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #107 on: November 05, 2012, 10:18:26 AM »
Who said anything about profit?  He sad NONE PROFOT ROJECT.

Quote from: LoadWB;713927
Social commentary... okay, I'll bite.  If nobody worked for profit, then everyone would have to work until the day they die as they would have been unable to accumulate wealth necessary to subsist after his or her own working age or ability to work comes to an end.  Additionally, since profit is part of the process which creates wealth, a profiting entity can therefore provide for others if he or she desires (charity,) including worker compensation beyond the actual value of the labor provided if so desired (extra wages, bonuses, parties, etc.)

While evil profiteers exist, profit in and of itself is not evil.  No more than the hammer which builds the house is evil because of its ability to be used as a lethal weapon.

In Petro's case I believe the correct characterization of this scenario is to say he is taking a loss, without knowing if whether he is being compensated for his time or the costs of freight and customs.
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Offline runequester

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #108 on: November 06, 2012, 03:52:41 AM »
Quote from: LoadWB;713929
The is the standard buffet.  If a worker deems his labor worth $10 per hour, and he is thus paid, it is not theft if the item is sold for $11.  Should the worker decide that his labor is worth more but that is unattainable in his current situation, then he has the right and the ability to change his situation by taking his assets (his experience and his labor) to another producer or to begin producing on his own.

He can. Of course this assumes he can go without a job while finding another, that unemployment is not 9-10%, that his skill set permits this, and that there are other employers in his field that he can apply to.

It is never a free interaction, when one man must work to avoid starving, and another man lives off the work of others.
In a "good" economy, the interaction is more fluid and approaches freedom to a higher extent (for example, near universal employment, or when there's aggressive competition between employers).
In "bad" times (high unemployment or monopoly of employers), it's merely serfdom with a human face.

Think the people who make our shoes and shirts have the freedom to go work another job?

Quote
Contrary to over a hundred years of ideological thinking, profit is not evil.  I will go even further to say that profit is what allows us, all of us, to maintain our own personal lives and hobbies.  For if we never made profit on our labor or production, if we lived to provide only for our needs and the needs of others, then we would do nothing but labor from the time we wake until the time we rest.

"Evil" is a nonsensical term. In economic and social situations, there's class interest and material realities.

It is not in the interest of the worker to have food sold at a profit from giant companies, when it could provided at virtually no cost to every citizen.

It is not in the interest of the corporation to have food available for free, as that would reduce the dependence of the worker on the corporation.

Neither is "evil" or "good", they are simply serving their respective class interests, as they must.



As far as whether we labour all day, ask in your average Foxconn plant. I imagine they'll have some answers that are different from our cushy western vantage point.

Quote
Without profit, chances are the company wouldn't exist long enough to make it's employees make ends meet

A publicly traded company must generate increasing profits, or it will be sued by it's shareholders.
A privately owned company can operate at a level where it can continue operations and pay it's workers, and many do.

Absence of profit does not indicate that losses are incurred.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 03:56:26 AM by runequester »
 

Offline psxphill

Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #109 on: November 06, 2012, 10:04:33 AM »
Quote from: Blinx123;713935
It does, actually.
 
Without profit, chances are the company wouldn't exist long enough to make it's employees make ends meet

Non profit organisations can make more money than their expenditure, it's just not allowed to be syphoned off by it's owners & instead has to be used to preserve the operation in a down turn or for expansion.
 

Offline VingtTroisTopic starter

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #110 on: November 06, 2012, 11:06:58 AM »
Milan Lukac:
Great news Petro! Would it be possible to post some photos? Are those Amigas completely white, or some yellowing appears?
- Yesterday

Petro T. Tyschtschenko:
Still not in my warehouse...Petro T. Tyschtschenko
- Yesterday

Milan Lukac:
Thanks for info. Not a problem, we will wait :)
- Yesterday

Petro T. Tyschtschenko:
Thank you for understanding.. Best regards Petro T. Tyschtschenko
- Yesterday
-A3K(T)040@35MHz/78MB/KS3.1/OS3.9/Buster11/PICASSO II/GVP IO/A2088XT/DENEB/HDD18GB
-A3K(D)030@25MHz/134MB RAM/KS3.1/OS3.9/Buster11/RETINA Z2/OKTAGON 2008/VLAB YC/MIDI/DKB3128/HDD18GB
-A2K/ROM 1.3-3.1/2MBCHIP/8MB/A2091/OKTAGON 2008/A2058/TANDEM IDE/FlickerFixer-Scandoubler/Genlock
-A1200/KS3.1/2MB+9MB/CF2GB A1200[/
 

Offline VingtTroisTopic starter

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #111 on: November 07, 2012, 02:13:47 PM »
A 1200 Magic Pack Manaufactured 1995 in good conditions arrived today!

http://www.facebook.com/ptyschtschenko

Amiga A 1200 Magic Pack just arrived today, Shipment starts today
Amiga A 1200 Magic Pack sind heute angekommen. Ab heute wird ausgeliefert
-A3K(T)040@35MHz/78MB/KS3.1/OS3.9/Buster11/PICASSO II/GVP IO/A2088XT/DENEB/HDD18GB
-A3K(D)030@25MHz/134MB RAM/KS3.1/OS3.9/Buster11/RETINA Z2/OKTAGON 2008/VLAB YC/MIDI/DKB3128/HDD18GB
-A2K/ROM 1.3-3.1/2MBCHIP/8MB/A2091/OKTAGON 2008/A2058/TANDEM IDE/FlickerFixer-Scandoubler/Genlock
-A1200/KS3.1/2MB+9MB/CF2GB A1200[/
 

Offline alexh

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #112 on: November 07, 2012, 02:44:14 PM »
I think that should shut up a few people who were giving him a hard time!
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #113 on: November 07, 2012, 03:38:23 PM »
"new" amigas in 2012. Amazing stuff :)
There'll be some unboxing videos Im sure.
 

Offline Robert1234

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #114 on: November 07, 2012, 03:52:53 PM »
How to buy one Amiga Magic Pack from mr. Petro?? Where to send e-mail? I want one :)
 

Offline Amiga_CDTV

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #115 on: November 07, 2012, 05:41:51 PM »
Wow!

Thanks, VingtTrois, for posting the pictures here. For one, I don't use Facebook and can't really get any updates on what's going on.

Must be quite a feeling to have that load of brand-new A1200's around! :) This is getting very exciting!

Robert1234: there is an email address on page 4 of this thread.

Edit: I have now received my invoice from Petro!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:25:01 PM by Amiga_CDTV »
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Offline Lord Aga

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #116 on: November 07, 2012, 08:15:54 PM »
Woohoo ! Go Petro :)
Glory to the loud-mouthed Scotsman !
 

Offline wrath of khan

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #117 on: November 07, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »
So it's either not a scam or someone's REALLY good at using photoshop!!
Im gonna say not a scam. It's cool that petro is selling these to the amiga community.Im tempted but I have just bought a cdtv and then there's the fpga arcade...
 

Offline Mr_DBUG

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #118 on: November 07, 2012, 11:54:07 PM »
How about timing fixes on these Amigas ? I mean in relation to use with ACAs.
 

Offline Wolfe

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Re: Petro: 500 units new Amiga 1200 Magic Pac
« Reply #119 from previous page: November 08, 2012, 12:14:38 AM »
So, how much $$$ ?  When?  More info please . . . .
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