natami

[haywirepc]

After years and years of teases,updates, changes, still no release date. I don't think it will ever happen. I was interested in this, until I realized I could simply remove windows shell and boot straight to os3.x with winuae.

That 3ghz pc cost me 30$ on ebay. And its here right now.

[cha05e90]

That 3ghz pc cost me 30$ on ebay. And its here right now.

WinUAE on a standard x86 PC. Hero. And - by the way - irrelevant and off topic.

On topic: I really would welcome a Mini-Mig on steroids - it doesn't have to be the "wonder machine" that was PR'd by some of the team members.

Natami is a monumental waste of time.

Wasn't it you who had spend hours and hours of precious life time setting up Amigas with that...how is it called...ehm..."Linux"? But maybe I mistake you with someone else...

[wawrzon]

minimig on steroids might be as well fpga arcade with the 060 board, and it looks more likely to happen.

[Digiman]

Jeri had already done alot of the work for the C-One before the DTV. So most of the R&D time had already been paid for or written off. It probably wouldn't have happened if they'd had to pay her for all her time up front.
 
The C64 was a much better known computer than the Amiga, so the cost of hardening the design into an ASIC and mass production was worth it. I don't think we'll see the situation repeated.

Exactly, Jeri told me that whilst the Amiga was a more complex machine than the C64 it also had less undocumented features to replicate in the FPGA code so was actually easier once she got started. Paula Agnus and Denise were replicated in record time and running an A500 motherboard with those chips missing. I think the production costs were going to be a bit higher ($20-30) so the project was cancelled because they wanted it to be more or less the same price as the 64DTV.

The thing doesn't have to go in a joystick but I guarantee you if the 64DTV was $50 the Amiga DTV and hence the small circuit board for it a la Minimig would come in easily under $100.

The fact that Jeri has only been hired for a Commodore or Amiga related project shows what a load of rubbish these licensees are churning out, and at 4-6 the cost of equivalent x86 running Amithlon and OS3.9 setup really.

[koaftder]

Wasn't it you who had spend hours and hours of precious life time setting up Amigas with that...how is it called...ehm..."Linux"? But maybe I mistake you with someone else...

You have me mistaken with someone else.

[koaftder]

Yeah, so? Plenty of enjoyable things in life aren't useful in a strict efficiency sense, doesn't make them not worthwhile, unless you're a joyless loser who thinks of "fun" as a waste of time.

Who said anything about efficiency?

[psxphill]

The thing doesn't have to go in a joystick but I guarantee you if the 64DTV was $50 the Amiga DTV and hence the small circuit board for it a la Minimig would come in easily under $100

If you can sell enough to bake an asic then the main cost problem is the storage. But amiga games weren't really suited to a tv game.

[fishy_fiz]

@Digiman

Far be it for me to tell you what to think or say, but Ive gotta say, your obsession with licences is getting pretty weird by now. Let it go guy, sheesh. Rhetorical (ie. please dont re-itterate), but did Cloanto kidnap your puppy or something? I just dont get why what others spend thier time and money doing is of any real consequence. DOnt like it, dont buy it, pretty simple. Your need to defame others simply because its not your kettle of fish is more than a little weird.

@thread

I can only imagine this whole Natami thing has happened on the back of too many backseat passengers giving directions and trying to take credit for Thomas' work? It was quite funny (in a sad sort of way) how many people were all vocal about being part of the "team", but actually did nothing other than try to sound involved on amiga forums I could name names, but I suspect people with thier eyes open already know who Im talking about.
I just feel for Thomas having his project stripped of fun by some other peoples fragile egos.

[Digiman]

@Digiman

Far be it for me to tell you what to think or say, but Ive gotta say, your obsession with licences is getting pretty weird by now. Let it go guy, sheesh. Rhetorical (ie. please dont re-itterate), but did Cloanto kidnap your puppy or something? I just dont get why what others spend thier time and money doing is of any real consequence. DOnt like it, dont buy it, pretty simple. Your need to defame others simply because its not your kettle of fish is more than a little weird.

Are you on crack or something boy?

The only sentence referring to licensees is to HARDWARE projects for anything to do with Commodore branding or Amiga branding on hardware. Amiga/C64 Forever is just software and has no connection with the tinkering genius of Jeri. WTF are you talking about?

[Digiman]

WinUAE on a standard x86 PC. Hero. And - by the way - irrelevant and off topic.

On topic: I really would welcome a Mini-Mig on steroids - it doesn't have to be the "wonder machine" that was PR'd by some of the team members.

I agree WinUAE is just an application, an incredible one, but not a physical product like Natami or Minimig so comparison is unfair.

There is nothing wrong with Natami except the price IMO. However you would need to invest something like $1,000,000 to do an FPGA Amiga from scratch to full mass production run as a product to get it well below the magic $100 price barrier. However would you quickly sell 50,000-100,000 units even then to recoup your initial investment from your first batch?

Maybe you might sell more if the machine could connect to something like Apple App store/XBLA/PSN Network style service to buy legally authorised copies of games to use on said machine for a similar price to MP3s on iTunes?

Cost of investment vs potential maximum sales is the issue.

[Kesa]

I agree WinUAE is just an application, an incredible one, but not a physical product like Natami or Minimig so comparison is unfair.

There is nothing wrong with Natami except the price IMO. However you would need to invest something like $1,000,000 to do an FPGA Amiga from scratch to full mass production run as a product to get it well below the magic $100 price barrier. However would you quickly sell 50,000-100,000 units even then to recoup your initial investment from your first batch?

Maybe you might sell more if the machine could connect to something like Apple App store/XBLA/PSN Network style service to buy legally authorised copies of games to use on said machine for a similar price to MP3s on iTunes?

Cost of investment vs potential maximum sales is the issue.

Actually this could easily be done. I think the key is to develop/market the FPGA to markets outside the Amiga community. This way you could sell a lot more than you would if simply targeting the Amiga community. This would include other retro computing markets such as Atari and other markets that may benefit from FPGA what(ever that may be). I said the same thing about TheDaddys x500 too.

[Kesa]

Natami is a monumental waste of time. Nerd trophy at best, monument to the square wheel at worst.

Do you have any imagination whatsoever when it comes to computers? :flak:

[haywirepc]

Originally Posted by cha05e90  
WinUAE on a standard x86 PC. Hero. And - by the way - irrelevant and off topic.

On topic: I really would welcome a Mini-Mig on steroids - it doesn't have to be the "wonder machine" that was PR'd by some of the team members.
I agree WinUAE is just an application, an incredible one, but not a physical product like Natami or Minimig so comparison is unfair.

Um.. I'm sorry to burst your excitement but both netami and minimig are just emulators... So if they are just emulators then why not just use an x86pc underneath instead of fpga, whats the difference?

smaller case? You can get tiny pc's now a days that fit in any case.

[Kesa]

Originally Posted by cha05e90  
WinUAE on a standard x86 PC. Hero. And - by the way - irrelevant and off topic.

On topic: I really would welcome a Mini-Mig on steroids - it doesn't have to be the "wonder machine" that was PR'd by some of the team members.
I agree WinUAE is just an application, an incredible one, but not a physical product like Natami or Minimig so comparison is unfair.

Um.. I'm sorry to burst your excitement but both natami and minimig are just emulators... So if they are just emulators then why not just use an x86pc underneath instead of fpga, whats the difference?

smaller case? You can get tiny pc's now a days that fit in any case.

No they are not.

[fishy_fiz]

@Digiman

Actually I admit I misread what your wrote. Just got so used to you going on about cloanto and decrypted rom images that I automatically assumed you was harping on about it again when I saw you mention licenses. Sorry about that.

[commodorejohn]

Who said anything about efficiency?

I guess I had inferred that from your statement that Natami is a "waste of time" because it seemed like the obvious course of argument for why something that's a hobby project to scratch the itch of a handful of individuals in a hobbyist community is totally stupid and unjustified in existing, but if I was mistaken, please feel free to enlighten me on what your actual reasoning was.