MorphOS ahead of AROS?

[OlafS3]

I do not want to destroy your illusions. The reasons why there is not much drive regarding PPC because anyone fears MorphOS or AOS but because there is not much need. The world outside speaks X86 (and in parts ARM) but noone is interested in PPC. That is the reality. There is a nightly build for PPC but that is not enough. You must build a distribution and you need a lot of software to be compiled for PPC. Noone is interested to do that for such a small number of potential users.

[OlafS3]

Nobody wants to stop people be happy with MorphOS and nobody tries to force anybody to use Aros. Many people are now working to remove the weak points from Aros and I am convinced that in 6-12 Months the situation will have changed and I try to do my part in this process.

That is what I believe and you can of course think different. We can talk in a few months about it :-)

I always hear how superior MorphOS is, "Aros is years behind" and "68k users are just retros and only want to play games". Do not be too convinced of "your OS", the world can faster change when you think.

I am just finishing my Aros 68k distribution and I will start soon with a Linux hosted distribution (X86/Kubuntu) and I am proud to be part of the change. And comments like this are only motivating me more.

[XDelusion]

Actually, I'm amazed at how long we held on to such crappy expansion standards.
 
33MHz PCI slots? Argh!
If you calculate out the additional bandwidth, PCIe is a Godsend.
PCIe 2.0 even better, and PCIe 3.0 incredible.
 
Think about it, I've got a 1.53GHz processor operating on a 133MHz bus.
That's a rediculous I/O bottleneck.

Very true, but at the same time I don't think we have any software that is held back by that bottle neck. When we have such software (I.E. After Effects or Final Cut), then the demand for better hardware will be undeniable.

[Iggy]

Don't worry Olaf, I don't have any illusions, especially any about Amigoid OS' regaining significant market share.
And I'm not particularly worried that PPC CPUs no longer have a share of the desktop market as they are very much alive in other devices.
Further, I'd really love to see more cross platform development and support without so much of this ridiculous "my systems better then your sentiment".
I mean come on, do AROS users really think that the ISA is a significant selling point when there are so many more powerful options running on that hardware?
X wasn't kidding, most people would rather use Linux (or Windows or OSX0.
We're the mutants that want to run derivatives of an over twenty year old, basically dead, 32bit OS.
I kind of like the idea of running my OS on a CPU that isn't mainstream. heck, that why I find ARM appealing (once that becomes more popular I'll probably lose interest).

[Iggy]

Very true, but at the same time I don't think we have any software that is held back by that bottle neck. When we have such software (I.E. After Effects or Final Cut), then the demand for better hardware will be undeniable.

Well, the X1000 is the first PPC in our market that offers PCIe expansion (and there's still no software that really requires it there either), unless you count the meager expansion on the SAM460ex.

Consider this, PCI is inadequate for one USB 3.0 connection (it can only provide a fraction of the needed bandwidth), but one 4X PCIe connection has more then enough bandwidth for two full USB 3.0 connections.

BTW - As to your "I'd rather use Linux" comment. Do you realize that when you use an X1000 under OS4 you only have support for one processor core and 2 GBs of memory. When you run Linux you use both cores and can access 6 or more GBs of memory (not to mention better video cards)?

[Iggy]

Oh, to close this whole argument, "Is MorphOS ahead of AROS?".

MorphOS current revision 2.7.

Aros? It hasn't reached revision 1.0 yet.

Ahead? Yes, obviously.
Why does this matter?
Who brings up these silly decisive topics?

[Digiman]

And for that you must have a love for Windows...

...which again it is that lack of that love that many of us chose Amiga over Windows and Mac OS so many years ago.

Mind you, I do have a Windows machine for Video/Audio Editing, and Gaming, but I don't use WinUAE except as a means to read and write to my Amiga Hard Drives (SD/CF cards). It just feels wrong to use it for anything else when my machines are perfectly capable of playing all the games and running all the apps on their own, but alas, to each their own. Glad you are enjoying your self....

TRAITOR!!! He he he.

Most people who are content with Windows + WinUAE do so for 2 reasons....

Cost/mhz of a Wintel/AMD box and Windows does more [badly] than any other OS.
Not really any exclusive Amiga PPC software worth getting a useless PPC Apple doorstop for so WinUAE covers our needs.

All that has happened is we have realized ALL OSs today are $hit ESPECIALLY pathetic style over substance Apple computers, computing will never be as awesome as the pioneering 80s and the last Amiga computer designed was the A1200

Don't really care what brand my socket set is, only care they undo bolts. Computer is just a tool for us now.

(IMO)

[Digiman]

Oh, to close this whole argument, "Is MorphOS ahead of AROS?".

MorphOS current revision 2.7.

Aros? It hasn't reached revision 1.0 yet.

Ahead? Yes, obviously.
Why does this matter?
Who brings up these silly decisive topics?

And Apple G5 version of MorphOS release is at 0.000001 so yes it is a stupid attitude as without G5 or x86 Mac support MorphOS is a toy/nostalgic antique OS.

[Iggy]

And Apple G5 version of MorphOS release is at 0.000001 so yes it is a stupid attitude as without G5 or x86 Mac support MorphOS is a toy/nostalgic antique OS.

Except for the fact that we've got the best browser, OS4 has a decent word processor (Cinnamon Writer), and AROS?
Oh yeah, it crashes.

And as I just upgraded to a dual 1.42 GHz G4 with a Radeon 9800XT video card, I don't have the most up to date system, but its quite functional.

A "toy" would be something that only looks like what it is, so...

[smerf]

Aros runs on all x86 CPUs from Pentium 3 to i7 PCs but MOS will not run on a G5 Mac so if we compare progress of Aros Intel i7 vs Powermac G5 Mos config clearly the truth is Mos is still on a tiny scale compared to Aros's ambitious PC  configurations supported. When MOS is running on every Mac desktop and laptop from G3 to G5 and Intel x86 Macs let me know :roflmao:

For me the issue is the PPC requirement, Commodore never made a PPC Amiga, Native OS for PPC or even A4000 upgrade card so Mos + UAE running on smelly old 90s Macs from a dumpster is no more "Amiga" than Aros + WinUAE running on a brand new dodgy brand of PC.

Mos is a hobby OS which costs more than Win7 and needs the inferior [to WinUAE] UAE emulator to run 90% of Amiga software.

Each to their own, but OS4/Mos are a waste of money IMO (just like Clownto's Amiga [shaft you] Forever is)

Hi,

@digiman,

You made some good points here. Those old rotten apple cores sure do smell, and  your right the MorphOS is no more Amiga than a Mac is Amiga or a PC is an Amiga. The only thing I can say though is that Cloanto's Amiga forever (which is no more Amiga than a PC computer) emulates the Amiga pretty accurate today. I use it all the time when I want to use Amiga programs. This saves wear and tear on my Amiga's.

I just like all these people who sing the praises of MorphOS and AROS and make fun of what CUSA is doing (which I don't like either, but believe it or not their name is showing up in PC type mags for what they are doing and PC people are liking it, can you say that about the other two contenders?) but CUSA is getting all the attention by other people, while real Amiga people are still living with and clammering about OLD PPC's.

OK, lets get something straight, I am a real Amiga person, I use my Amiga's everyday and use them. I am not a fake Amiga person who sold their old silicon and then chime in that I use "MorphOS Amiga done right" right where, how and why, prove it. Run Pen Pal, Wadsworth, Final Copy, DPaint, etc. Show me a new browser that can keep up with todays sites so you can surf the web, play mp3's, watch videos and play movies. I have a hard time loading up MorphOS (I don't and won't buy old used up Mac silicon, for that matter I won't buy new Mac silicon)

I am an Amiga person, if I wanted a Mac, I would be using a Mac. If I wanted a PC, I am using a PC, why, because PC's have the best games right now, the best graphics, the fastest processors and GPU's.

So who cares if MorphOS leads AROS, do they really, lets talk 5 years up the road, when the G4 Mac silicon starts to disappear. Pfffffft!!!!

At least AROS who is behind right now has the chance to continue on, why because they see some of the future, NEW USABLE CPU'S AND GRAPHICS PROCESSOR UNITS, the PPC boys are still living in the past, just like me using the old Amiga.

Seems like a lot of brains and programming power going to waste, being used for a losing cause.

smerf

MorphOS leads today, how about the future.

[Manu]

Instead of beating around the bush, start to list the software that AROS crashes up on, or is missing completely and make MorphOS so much desirable.

[takemehomegrandma]

Aros runs on all x86 CPUs from Pentium 3 to i7 PCs but MOS will not run on a G5 Mac so if we compare progress of Aros Intel i7 vs Powermac G5 Mos config clearly the truth is Mos is still on a tiny scale compared to Aros's ambitious PC  configurations supported. When MOS is running on every Mac desktop and laptop from G3 to G5 and Intel x86 Macs let me know :roflmao:

I suppose MorphOS could quite "easily" (relatively speaking) be made running on every mac desktop and laptop from G3 to G5 by lowering its standards by running hosted, on top of a complete alien OS like Yellow Dog Linux that provides all the true low-level "OS stuff", but so far the ambition behind MorphOS has been a lot higher than simply providing some Amiga environment with a GUI on top of Linux, the ambition has always been to make a complete OS, from the ground up. One of the most important functions of an OS is to provide low level support for the hardware, and MorphOS does this in an extremely lean and effective way, from the top of the API and all the way down to the silicon.

[paolone]

Maybe I don't understand, but from what you just said there, it pretty much sounded *exactly* what I meant when I said "like two applications running on two separate computers (with separate OS code), instead of the two applications running in the same environment", one host/AROS box, and one 68k box.

Sorry, I misread your statements and thought you were saying AMIGA PROGRAMS were working EACH ONES in ITS OWN Amiga sandbox, while you were really saying ALL AMIGA PROGRAMS work in THEIR OWN Amiga sandbox while AROS programs do the same in the rest of the OS. Which is absolutely true.

You are talking about making it *look* like the same system in a purely visual/theme sense (and have access to a common clipboard), but in my view it's still a lot more like running WinUAE on a Windows7 machine (where the 68k part also can access the host systems file system, etc)

Yes, it's much like running WinUAE inside of Windows, or even XP programs in Windows 7's XP mode, or MacOS Classic programs in earlier versions of MacOS X, as you can see baci AmiBridge's idea has been used before (Apple), and found very famouse followers afterwards (Microsoft).

...than what both MorphOS and OS4 offers today, where you simply don't have any HW emulation or separate/shielded off "boxes" at all, but all binaries are run the same way, share the same memory space, the same resources, data, sheduling, messaging, arexx, *everything*, no matter if they are 68k or PPC, there simply is no difference at all (it *is* one and the same, not just visually so)!

Half true. You have to place some boxes here and there, in order to run M68K bytecode on PPC processors. Why are so many OS4/MOS users so sure there isn't any emulation at all in the process? It must be somewhere, hidden to the eyes of users, but 68K software doesn't run on PPC hardware by magic. Translation necessarily introduces overhead and potential flaws, not counting that much software relies on classic hardware specs to run correctly. That's why I prefer emulating the whole hardware and run M68K software on its own, no matter that's the only one option available on AROS: I would do the same on MorphOS and AmigaOS 4, if safeness and stability would get more important than speed.

[takemehomegrandma]

OK, lets get something straight, I am a real Amiga person, I use my Amiga's everyday and use them.

Fine, many people here are retro enthusiasts whose only/primary interest is the "Classic" HW and OS. That's great, have fun! Also UAE is still being developed, and who knows, maybe there will become something tangible of NatAmi one day that you can use as well?

But many others are more into "Next Generation" Amiga, we who wants the evolution to continue, we who wants to use the Amiga in a more modern way (MorphOS, AROS, OS4), and you will just have to accept that!

I am not a fake Amiga person who sold their old silicon and then chime in that I use "MorphOS Amiga done right" right where, how and why, prove it. Run Pen Pal, Wadsworth, Final Copy, DPaint, etc.

I have no idea of what Pen Pal is, never came in contact with that back in the days. WordWorth runs, most people seem to prefer Final Writer though. Final Copy seems to run, I haven't done it myself, but at least it's listed in the MorphOS Software Database, so I guess *someone* has tried it. Deluxe Paint V works, and so does Personal Paint, etc.

For most of these old apps you will have to make some one time edit in some configuration setting or/and there may be one or two visual glitch in their GUI's, search amiga.org and morphzone.org for info about settings etc if you are really interested. But they work and are usable. And so does Directory Opus, Magellan, etc, as they have done from the very beginning (many used them back when Ambient still were young and underdeveloped, but these days Ambient has many Magellan features integrated so there is little point now).

Heck, you can even run the original 68k Amiga OS 3.1 *Workbench* on MorphOS (or at least you could back in the v1.4 days, I doubt anyone have tried post 2.0), should ambient feel too modern and advanced for you to handle! :lol:

Show me a new browser that can keep up with todays sites so you can surf the web, play mp3's, watch videos and play movies.

Odyssey is part of MorphOS, and will do just that for you. HTML5/CSS3/JS etc, no problem. Odyssey even beats Internet Explorer 9 when it comes to CSS3, which is kind of amusing actually! Not at all like the Classic days, where Ibrowse users on Amiga could only look with jealousy on how the Web technology went on without them, and constantly be bugging website developers to avoid using CSS and stick to stone-age and deprecated HTML-tags and tables for their design... :lol:

I am an Amiga person, if I wanted a Mac, I would be using a Mac.

A Mac box running MorphOS is no longer a Macintosh, but a MorphOS box! We're just talking about the silicon here after all, it's the OS that makes the computer...

At least AROS who is behind right now has the chance to continue on, why because they see some of the future, NEW USABLE CPU'S AND GRAPHICS PROCESSOR UNITS, the PPC boys are still living in the past, just like me using the old Amiga.

Few people in the MorphOS camp are PPC fanboys today. PPC made sense back in the days when PowerUP and later the MorphOS project was started. Apple was using it and it seemed to have a future on the desktop just as bright as x86 seemed to have.

One MorphOS developer said on MorphZone.org (about choosing PPC as target architecture in the first place) something in the lines of: "if we would have known back then what we know today, we would have chosen differently" (not an exact quote)

In a response to the comment "I only regret that again we have an announcement about old hardware", a developer said: "Fair enough, but don't whine if it ain't a PowerPC based box "

In a response to the comment "Due to lack of another new PPC-based hardware, I can make the only conclusion: this is the end of MorphOS ", a developer said: "IMHO Apple hardware is the only target that makes sense for PowerPC MorphOS at the moment." (and no, the bold emphasis was not put there by me, but by the dev himself)

MorphOS leads today, how about the future.

OK, since you asked so politely, here it is:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59765

[Fab]

OK, lets get something straight, I am a real Amiga person, I use my Amiga's everyday and use them. I am not a fake Amiga person who sold their old silicon and then chime in that I use "MorphOS Amiga done right" right where, how and why, prove it. Run Pen Pal, Wadsworth, Final Copy, DPaint, etc. Show me a new browser that can keep up with todays sites so you can surf the web, play mp3's, watch videos and play movies. I have a hard time loading up MorphOS (I don't and won't buy old used up Mac silicon, for that matter I won't buy new Mac silicon)

Most of these legacy apps work just fine (and faster than any Amiga). Most of my settings and software from my good old A4k are still there on my Pegasos and Macs. It just feels faster.

As for the browser, i guess you haven't followed too closely. Odyssey scores currently 365 + 15 points at html5test.com, i.e better than FireFox 11, Opera 11 and Safari 5.1, even though a couple features like workers and webgl had to be disabled, unfortunately. It will also play many streaming sites like youtube, dailymotion, vimeo (and more efficiently than OSX in that regard, since there's much less overhead).

As for playing movies and playing MP3, we also have several players out there that handle about all known formats (mplayer for instance). The only trouble is playing 1080p h.264 content fast enough (it still does it faster than OSX and Linux by a good margin, in any case).

[OlafS3]

"Except for the fact that we've got the best browser, OS4 has a decent word processor (Cinnamon Writer), and AROS?
Oh yeah, it crashes.
Aros? It hasn't reached revision 1.0 yet."

I am really tempted to response in the same tone but I will not do that...