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AuthorTopic: Raspberry PI  (Read 17816 times)

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Offline persia

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2012, 02:46:53 PM »
The one thing that would have been better is to provide an environment for developing Android apps.  I think it would have been fun for kids to develop an app and install it on their phone or their friends phones....
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Offline Linde

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2012, 02:49:52 PM »
Quote from: tone007;682146
Why program this thing when there are real computers running Linux to program on?


How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers. Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.
 

Offline tone007

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2012, 03:26:43 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;682150
Take a class of 30 kids.......  yes, cost.


Lets see.

You'll probably need a keyboard, monitor and mouse, and maybe even a case.  I can't see the whole setup being too much less than $200.  Buy the kids netbooks and be done with it.

Quote from: Linde;682152
How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers. Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.


It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.
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Offline Tripitaka

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2012, 03:31:20 PM »
Quote from: tone007;682155
Lets see.

You'll probably need a keyboard, monitor and mouse, and maybe even a case.  I can't see the whole setup being too much less than $200.  Buy the kids netbooks and be done with it.


One word for you on that score: Ergonomics!

I for one would not be happy with my kids using a netbook for hours.
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Offline tone007

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2012, 03:35:50 PM »
Depending on the size of the kid, the ergonomics could be perfect! ;)
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Offline Linde

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2012, 03:48:36 PM »
Quote from: tone007;682155
It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.


To be fair, the situation has changed. This thing is equivalent to a typical PC in terms of what language compilers and interpreters it can run. Add to that OpenGL compatible hardware and you can be sure that speed/RAM won't be the bottleneck for what children will be able to learn using them. You won't be stuck running qbasic or some modern day equivalent, but Ruby, Python, JS, C, C++, PHP, and exactly whatever the real world is using.

A full-fledged Linux system with the most widely used processor architecture... For a price low enough to realistically buy one for every student, you won't get much closer to the "real world."
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2012, 03:50:14 PM »
Quote from: tone007;682155
It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.
Feh.

If you can't do it on 700MHz and 256MB of RAM, it isn't worth doing.
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Offline Arkhan

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2012, 03:53:16 PM »
Quote from: Linde;682152
How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers.
This thing requires more than just the Pi.  When you add up the other crap you'll need to use it, is it really that great?

If they have an HDMI capable display and no personal computer, their family needs to rethink priorities and get them into technology instead of HD television.

Plus once its all setup, you have a goony little board with no case (or a case when they have them), with wires on all sides.  Great for hamfisted kids to sit near and use.  

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.  

I picture cake frosting and crap spilled on these.  Kids are clumsy and sloppy.   Slap them in front of some hulking PC case.  It's safer.


Quote
Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.
I'm sorry, how are you restricted on a personal computer when it comes to programming?  If you've got Linux (free), a keyboard, and at least 1 finger, you aren't restricted.  Hell you don't even need fingers really.  Toes are fine.

This thing is more restricting than a personal computer.  It supports what, Perl, Python, C, and BBC BASIC?  No C++? No C#?  No Java?  THAT SOUNDS RESTRICTING.

They'd be better off sticking these kids on Linux boxes with endless possibilities.  



Quote from: Tripitaka;682156
One word for you on that score: Ergonomics!
I for one would not be happy with my kids using a netbook for hours.

Meanwhile they're probably slumped over coloring or playing handheld games, or slouched down so far in their seats they might as well be laying down. :)

and who's to say these things are going to be ergonomical?  It's all up to the end user's setup.

What if this things on a floor with a keyboard (either on the floor or in their lap), and then it's wired to a TV that forces the kid to sit and stare straight up like its the front row of a movie theatre?

Plus, you can be ergonomical with a netbook (unless you're some 350+ pound blob with poor posture and no desk room).

Quote from: commodorejohn;682160
Feh.

If you can't do it on 700MHz and 256MB of RAM, it isn't worth doing.

if you can't do it in assembly, it isn't worth doing.


now , really, its 2012.  This kind of thinking is just stupid.  Stop being stupid and get with the times.
 

I think this thing's called the Pi because its a 3.14/10
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 03:55:33 PM by Arkhan »
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Offline Linde

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2012, 03:54:00 PM »
As for the price of peripherals. Worst case is that you have a student who has neither a PC monitor or a TV monitor. A TV monitor can be had new for ~$30 and a basic keyboard goes for what, $4?
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2012, 03:55:28 PM »
Quote from: tone007;682155
Lets see.

You'll probably need a keyboard, monitor and mouse, and maybe even a case.  I can't see the whole setup being too much less than $200.  Buy the kids netbooks and be done with it.

no, you do not need a monitor.  You need a TV.  Keyboards and mice can be had for free, or at the very most 14-15 dollars for a new kbd/mouse combo from the wal-mart types.  Most households have a TV.

Quote
It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.

Well, I'm not sure what to say to this.  ARM on mobile is the future for  a large segment of computing.  But, hey, you see no value - that is for sure your prerogative.  My CS department sees value in them - a testing developing platform they can line item as a lab fee for every CS student.
 

Offline tone007

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Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2012, 03:55:31 PM »
Quote from: Linde;682162
A TV monitor can be had new for ~$30 and a basic keyboard goes for what, $4?


"Here kid, don't mind the blurry letters."  Love it.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
I think this thing's called the Pi because its a 3.14/10


Ha!
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Offline TheBilgeRat

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2012, 04:05:03 PM »
I am baffled by the dislike bordering on hate.  I, for one, am excited about it for the many reasons stated above.  Some people aren't - I get that.  I'm a little bit saddened by the dismissal of young british kids' intellect or sense of curiosity as well.  If they are anything like young American kids, there are more coding type nerds out there than you think, with parents more willing to let the kid go nuts on a 35 dollar computer than the household one.
 

Offline Linde

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2012, 04:06:46 PM »
Quote from: Arkhan;682161
This thing requires more than just the Pi.  When you add up the other crap you'll need to use it, is it really that great?
See my last post :)

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
If they have an HDMI capable display and no personal computer, their family needs to rethink priorities and get them into technology instead of HD television.
Who said you need a HDMI capable display?

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
Plus once its all setup, you have a goony little board with no case (or a case when they have them), with wires on all sides.  Great for hamfisted kids to sit near and use.  

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.
Good point, though at $35 it's not a great loss for the school.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
I'm sorry, how are you restricted on a personal computer when it comes to programming?  If you've got Linux (free), a keyboard, and at least 1 finger, you aren't restricted.  Hell you don't even need fingers really.  Toes are fine.
I don't think what I was trying to say came through to you! What I am saying is that while most kids have ACCESS to a computer, quite a few don't have their own. I don't know, but libraries, parents and whatever are usually pretty restrictive in what they allow you to do with computers. I'm not sure that poor John Doe's Microsoft-Office-and-youtube dad will be happy if his starts mucking about with installing compiler environments, and I'm quite sure that he won't be happy to have his computer occupied all day.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
This thing is more restricting than a personal computer.  It supports what, Perl, Python, C, and BBC BASIC?  No C++? No C#?  No Java?  THAT SOUNDS RESTRICTING.
No C++, no Java and no C#? Where did you get that idea? I'm getting more and more confident in the fact that you have no idea of what you are talking about. It's a Linux system, not some sort of sandboxed toy OS.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
They'd be better off sticking these kids on Linux boxes with endless possibilities.
Yes, they should give Linux boxes to all k... wait, isn't this what the Raspberry Pi is? Are you that clueless or are you leaving out some aspect of your argument that gives it some sense?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 04:11:03 PM by Linde »
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2012, 04:07:37 PM »
Quote from: Arkhan;682161
now , really, its 2012.  This kind of thinking is just stupid.  Stop being stupid and get with the times.


Python is hardly assembler.  Neither is Java, C, or Ruby.  RTFA before you jump off the deep end.
 

Offline desiv

Re: Raspberry PI
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2012, 04:07:47 PM »
Quote from: Arkhan;682161

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.  

I picture cake frosting and crap spilled on these.  Kids are clumsy and sloppy.   Slap them in front of some hulking PC case.  It's safer.

That's actually a plus for the Pi there..

I'm sure, when it gets to kids, there will be cases..  So I don't see spills really being a problem..

But it's possible..  
So, ruin a $35 Pi or a $200 netbook/PC..  Which is easier to replace?

Slap them in front of a hulking PC case and it gets knocked off the desk (I used to (man, was it that long ago, I'm getting old) work for a school district, it happened a lot- not daily, but it happened much more than we wanted) and again...
Replace a $35 Pi (which you wouldn't have to most likely..  Things that small falling off of a desk, most likely no issues...), no biggie.
Even if it's just re-seating cards to get the PC working, that's a service call to the help desk, down time, tech time...

Done right (which I'm sure it won't be), it could be a really neat setup..  ;-)

desiv
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