X1000 xmos

[koaftder]

I used an xs1l1 in a commercial product. The advantage of using it over various other microcontrollers was that you could delegate parts of the software off to different threads instead of having to manage a nested interrupt scheme dealing with I/O. This made auditing the code and verifying the design extremely easy.

As for what it's use could be in a desktop computer... I'd call it useless and a waste of time. You have gigs of ram, a 2GHz 64 bit dual core processor to play with. A little microcontroller with 2 cores with 64KiB of ram each and no FPU doesn't look very interesting compared to that, not to mention the development environment which makes using said microcontroller a productive experience requires Java, which if I'm not mistaken doesn't run on on AOS4.

That's not to say there isn't lots of fun to be had with the Xmos microcontrollers. You won't have any fun with it as long as its bolted onto a motherboard and wired up to a card slot that's next to impossible for a hobbyist to interface to. For anyone wanting to get their feet wet I'd recommend visiting Xmos's website and picking up one of their inexpensive eval boards.

[Tripitaka]

A hack to workaround the absence of PCI. The X1000 however does have PCI...

While that's true I think your missing my point entirely.

We simply don't know what standards will become popular over the next few years. OK, we can guess, but that's all. It could be that Thunderbolt will be very popular within a couple of years... or not.

Can XMOS be used for adding a Thunderbolt port? Would we want one? I don't know, I'm not that techie or prescient, I'm an artist dammit. My point was that in the future we may end up being thankful for an option that doesn't seem so useful now.

I've said before that I would have rather seen an FPGA on the board  instead but we have Xorro and Xena, Hyperion doesn't make the choices I would have made all of the time, that's for sure. Only time will tell how useful it really is.

[Tripitaka]

It should be safe to assume that the X1000 XMOS will be used for the same kinds of things that it's been demoed doing at X1000 presentations.

It's rare for me to agree with jorkany but for now at least this comment is spot on.

[Piru]

Can XMOS be used for adding a Thunderbolt port?

No, it doesn't have enough bandwidth.

[koaftder]

No, it doesn't have enough bandwidth.

The bandwidth actually gets worse as you use more threads on a core. Clock is roundrobbined between active threads.

[vidarh]

As for what it's use could be in a desktop computer... I'd call it useless and a waste of time. You have gigs of ram, a 2GHz 64 bit dual core processor to play with. A little microcontroller with 2 cores with 64KiB of ram each and no FPU doesn't look very interesting compared to that,

You're considering exactly the wrong type of applications if you're even trying to compare it to the CPU performance. The benefit it has is hard realtime guarantees and extremely low latency with direct access to IO pins. If you don't need that, you don't need that and it cost you a handful of dollars more. If you do come up with applications that needs that, that powerful CPU won't do you much good on its own.

Given that this is a community where tons of people have all kinds of funky legacy hardware, I would not consider it surprising at all if we get to see some interesting uses of it.

not to mention the development environment which makes using said microcontroller a productive experience requires Java, which if I'm not mistaken doesn't run on on AOS4.

If you can't handle a command line compiler. Plenty of us have no problems dealing with gcc of the command line, and/or prefer it.

[Karlos]

Perhaps it could be used to implement some IO glue for people wanting to do crazy things, like attach legacy Amiga hardware.

[koaftder]

You're considering exactly the wrong type of applications if you're even trying to compare it to the CPU performance. The benefit it has is hard realtime guarantees and extremely low latency with direct access to IO pins. If you don't need that, you don't need that and it cost you a handful of dollars more. If you do come up with applications that needs that, that powerful CPU won't do you much good on its own.

It's only interesting in applications that are external to a desktop computer. It has no value bolted onto the gpio pins of a 2GHz dual core beast. There is absolutely nothing this microcontroller can do that the host processor isn't capable of exceeding. It's value as a compute engine is nil and if anything it represents a bandwidth bottle neck between the CPU and the pins on the XORRO bus it's connected to.

Given that this is a community where tons of people have all kinds of funky legacy hardware, I would not consider it surprising at all if we get to see some interesting uses of it.

I'd be surprised if anyone did anything with it at all considering that there's been nothing stopping people interested in xcore microcontrollers from having a go at it for the low price of 100 USD with kit directly from XMOS. We've had what, two years now since this was all announced? I've seen nothing from the hobby hackers.

If you can't handle a command line compiler. Plenty of us have no problems dealing with gcc of the command line, and/or prefer it.

The programming language created for this family of microcontrollers (XC) is proprietary and closed source.  You won't even get to invoke it from the command line in AOS4. Their tool chain and development environment (centered around eclipse) is high class stuff, you'd simply be wasting your time and doing yourself a disservice if you didn't use it anyway.

[Tripitaka]

No, it doesn't have enough bandwidth.

LMAO, at least Piru gives a straight answer. It was only an example however. Sadly anything I think of that might be worth doing is either impossible or better off using USB for (like controlling a telescope for example).

[bbond007]

LMAO, at least Piru gives a straight answer. It was only an example however. Sadly anything I think of that might be worth doing is either impossible or better off using USB for (like controlling a telescope for example).

So, given this chip is absolutely worthless(unless you are building a giant doomsday robot and need extra granular servo controls), why did they seek this chip out as part of the x1000 specs?

Was this motherboard possibly designed for other purposes and simply re-branded and someone asked the question "what do say I if somebody asks about that funky chip?"

Seems like they should have been trying to be cutting costs, not adding a useless features.

[Kesa]

Begin rant  :madashell:

This is funny. Just because you guys can't think of any uses for it doesn't mean it is "worthless".

A telescope? is that the best idea you can come up with?

I think the problem here is not the Xena itself it is just a lack of imagination. What you guys lack in imagination you make up for with obnoxious remarks. I don't like this "i can't think of anything to do with it that means it is a flawed design" attitude.

I have decided to ignore Kofters "expertise" in all things xmos and Piru's "not enough bandwidth" remarks and instead sit back and see how it turns out in a few years from now when people have actually had time to experiment with it. I mean, the thing isn't even out yet and you already have your minds made up.

Rant over

I feel much better now. Thanks

[mongo]

It's going to get as much use as the FPGA in the Sam.

[bbond007]

I think the problem here is not the Xena itself it is just a lack of imagination.

Oh please... there have been plenty of people with imagination asking if the magical chip can be used for this or that..

and the people with the technical knowledge say no to each item for various reasons.

not enough bandwidth, CPU is better suited, etc...

[persia]

@Kesa

Sometimes the Emperor really doesn't have any clothes.....

XMOS is a wonderful microcontroller, but attaching it to a 1700 quid computer doesn't add anything to either XMOS or the computer.  A food processor is a wonderful invention, so is a TV, but attaching the food processor to the TV doesn't give extra value to either the TV or Food Processor.

[bloodline]

Perhaps it could be used to implement some IO glue for people wanting to do crazy things, like attach legacy Amiga hardware.

That was my thinking too, but legacy Amiga hardware all sits on either a ZorroII bus (which little more than the 68000 bus) or ZorroIII... Both of which can built using a cheap FPGA. I think Dave Haynie said Buster was just a CPLD...

The XMOS chips might be quite useful in the telecoms industry... Which I note still use PPCs too... So this board might have a use there!

[Karlos]

@Kesa

Sometimes the Emperor really doesn't have any clothes.....

XMOS is a wonderful microcontroller, but attaching it to a 1700 quid computer doesn't add anything to either XMOS or the computer.  A food processor is a wonderful invention, so is a TV, but attaching the food processor to the TV doesn't give extra value to either the TV or Food Processor.

Well, with all the cooking programs on TV these days....

Besides, you probably said the same thing about alarm clocks and radios.

:lol: