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Offline amigadave

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2011, 01:34:33 AM »
Quote from: arttu80;662957
You lucky b*stard! Congrats on THE Holy Grail of A1000s...

I wouldn't call it the "Holy Grail" of A1000 gear, but it is a nice piece of Amiga history and a nice fitting step up toward making a stock A1000 more like an A2000 while still fitting inside the original case.  The A1000 case was one of the reasons I liked the Amiga in the first place.  When I bought my first Amiga I had to choose between buying a brand new A500 at a dealer, or buying a used A1000 that came with a 1080 monitor, 512kb RAM, extra floppy drive (A1010).  I opted for the A1000 because I liked the case design better than the A500, which cost me even more money later when I started to upgrade it, as the upgrades for the A500 were cheaper and easier to find than upgrades for the A1000 were, even in 1988.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2011, 11:45:00 AM »
Quote from: DonutKing;662939
It's the Desiderata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata

Have you noticed though that the line "Therefore be at peace with God, Whatever you perceive him to be" is different on that board - "perceive her to be"..., I wonder what the cause of that is, the source listed on the board, or a misquote or what.
 

Offline Framiga

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2011, 02:28:32 PM »
interesting Desiderata history

http://www.fleurdelis.com/desidera.htm
 

Offline DonutKingTopic starter

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2011, 12:38:07 AM »
I've pulled the machine apart in an attempt to clean it, and taken a few more photos.

Here's the two keyboard I got with it. They are foul - I think one's had milk spilled in it at one point because it was absolutely rank when I pulled it apart. I've tried to clean it as best I could. Both of them seem to have a few faulty keys. I'm hoping that when I get the system running, it will just be a matter of desoldering some working switches off one board and soldering them onto the other.




Can anyone tell me if a 2000/3000/4000 keyboard will work with a 1000 if I fit an RJ11-DIN adapter or something?


Anyway here's some shots of the board.












There are a lot of empty sockets but it works as far as I can tell. At least, its got 1.3 kickstart on it and it happily boots off a floppy.
Can anyone shed some light onto what some of the missing chips might be, or what options this board is equipped with?

I believe it has 256KB of RAM installed, with 8 256 kilobit DIP chips and another 8 empty sockets.

On the underside of the board there are a few wires that have been soldered in place.



There are heaps of messages and greetings all over the underside:









Sorry for the poor quality. This last one says 'Sorry sheldon we did it anyway' and 'the various user groups who supported us'



This one says 'To the 540 depositors who made it all possible, my thanks and in particular, Margaret Wilson, Jonathon Potter, Mike Chow and the others scattered around the board'.

The phone number is an old 7 digit number, in the mid 90's Australian phone numbers were changed to 8 digits.
 

Offline Drummerboy

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 02:15:06 AM »
Interesting acquisition!

I dont called "A1000 Holy Grail", but its a rare A1000 Model.

Congratulaton by the finding!. Try to restore to original.  it is worth it.
Amiga 1000, 500, 600, 2000, 1200, 4000...

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Offline amigadave

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 05:58:07 AM »
For info about the board, check the Big Book of Amiga Hardware and also ask around on the a1k.org website.  Almost all of the people and messages on a1k.org are in German, but you can always translate them using something like Google Translate, or Babelfish.

Did you ever figure out where the memory expansion board/hard disk interface plugs into, or if it even works with the Phoenix board?

The Phoenix board itself is supposed to be capable of having 2mb of RAM with a jumper that allows you to use it as 2mb Chip RAM, or 1mb Chip & 1mb of Fast RAM.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline DonutKingTopic starter

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2011, 12:38:11 PM »
Quote from: amigadave;663087


Did you ever figure out where the memory expansion board/hard disk interface plugs into, or if it even works with the Phoenix board?




Its apparently a standard sidecar expansion. There are no external connectors, and the only internal connector is a 26 pin header.
A bit of googling suggests this could be a proprietary JVC hard disk interface : http://www.pd.com/gb15xx/messages/1489.html


The annoying thing about the sidecar expansion slot is that it isn't keyed in any way, and the unit was screwed into its case, so I wasn't sure which way it should be connected. I guess Amiga designers had a lot more faith in its users than what we're used to with PC users today :)

Thankfully pin 1 is labelled on the expansion card, and on my 500...  however in that orientation the card is inserted so the component side faces down.... the complete opposite to what I would have expected? Well, I wasn't going to argue with the markings on the boards...

With great trepidation I attached it to my 500 and flicked the power switch, and no magic smoke came out :)









Although the hard disk controller isn't very useful without one of those drives, the 1MB of Fast RAM installed on it is nothing to complain about :D
Since the 500 has got a 1MB Agnus in it I might do the trapdoor chipram mod and use this sidecar as fast RAM :)

As for the 1000, its been pulled apart for cleaning and retrobrighting, if the weather holds out I hope to have that all back up and running this weekend.

I found the manual for the phoenix board http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/Phoenix.pdf

It seems that most of the missing chips are just for additional Kickstart ROMs. The only kickstart installed is 1.3.
I'm missing the ROM switch mentioned in the manual, and it appears the SCSI controller chips are not installed - sounds like these are proprietary so I don't have much hope of ever finding those. There is no FPU installed but it looks like I can get a 68882 and appropriate clock crystal from amigakit for 25 bucks :)  It seems the only option that's installed is the internal DB23 floppy connector, so I could mount an external floppy inside the case.
 

Offline DonutKingTopic starter

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 02:19:55 AM »
This is coming along pretty well, the case and keyboard look like they'll clean up nicely (actually making a working keyboard is another matter), and I'm planning to solder on some new RCA jacks and maybe even a coin cell battery holder to replace the dead one that's soldered on, if I don't just remove it entirely.

Unfortunately, it looks like I won't be able to take advantage of all the bells and whistles of this board because the SCSI controller, FPU, kickstart switcher and the B2000 expansion slot all require PAL chips (programmable array logic, not the video standard) - which I don't have. They would have all been Phoenix proprietary. The SCSI controller also requires an EPROM installed in U31 which appears to have contained some sort of autoboot code (in addition to Kickstart ROMs that support autobooting natively it seems).

I imagine these things are as rare as rocking horse poop. They are generally programmed at the factory and have a security fuse blown so its not possible to simply read their logic. However, depending on the type of the chip used and its complexity it may be possible to reverse engineer these chips and program replacements.
More info here: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/entry.php?314-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-1)

Of course this is all just talk. I lack the knowledge and equipment to do this myself, and there was an effort to reverse engineer the PAL chip for the CMS upgrade on the Sound Blaster 2.0, which never went anywhere- and some of those guys actually had the chips.

About the only upgrade I can do is stick more RAM in it, otherwise it seems functionally identical to an A500, in a desktop case with an external keyboard.


I'd be interested to hear if anyone actually has these PAL chips? Having a board as rare as this is one thing but actually having one with all the options installed would be quite the prize.

For reference the chips in question are:
U59 - Kickstart switcher
U21 - FPU
U70 - B2000 expansion slot
Not sure about SCSI controller chips exactly, any of chips  U27, U23, U25, U26, U24  might be the PAL. Also requires EPROM in U31 and actual SCSI controller chip in U30


EDIY: I'm also chasing a front cover for the A1000 case (where the chipram expansion would go), don't suppose anyones got one lying around?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 02:29:28 AM by DonutKing »
 

Offline amigadave

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2011, 04:22:52 AM »
Interesting info about your board and it's missing chips.

I still think you should try to communicate with the guys at a1k.org.  The Georg Braun A1000 motherboard replacement was a later copy of the Phoenix design and they might even have some of the files needed to create the PAL & EPROM chips you need.  I am not sure if the GBA1000 motherboard is the same as your board, or if it has several changes made by Georg Braun (who is an electrical genius).  He spent hundreds if not thousands of hours and euros on his A1000.  Check out his website too.  http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline klx300r

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2011, 04:26:53 AM »
great find dude & welcome aboard! Have fun with the magic eraser on her and if all fails I spray painted my yellowed A500 & it looks great :-)
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Offline DonutKingTopic starter

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2011, 05:12:40 AM »
Quote from: amigadave;663383
Interesting info about your board and it's missing chips.

I still think you should try to communicate with the guys at a1k.org.  The Georg Braun A1000 motherboard replacement was a later copy of the Phoenix design and they might even have some of the files needed to create the PAL & EPROM chips you need.




I've posted in the international section there, so hopefully they can point me in the right direction.


Quote from: klx300r
great find dude & welcome aboard! Have fun with the magic eraser on her and if all fails I spray painted my yellowed A500 & it looks great :-)


Thanks :)
 

Offline DonutKingTopic starter

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2011, 11:51:46 PM »
A bit of an update on this project...

Thankfully one of the users at a1k.org was kind enough to identify and dump  the missing chips for me :) So I now have the .JED files to program replacements and the scsi autoboot ROM. Here they are for anyone that's looking for them.
All the other SCSI controller chips etc can be found online.

So to that end I've bought a cheap and nasty G540 USB universal programmer off ebay and some rewritable GAL chips from futurlec. Waiting for them to arrive so I can try them out :)

Unfortunately the U60 chip, which allows a 1MB Agnus to interface to 2MB of RAM won't work in a rewritable GAL. It will only work in a write-once PAL for reasons unknown (Andrew Wilson himself said he never figured this out). It's impossible to find the required type of PAL that hasn't already been programmed, and even if I did you can't program them with a normal programmer.
Of course if I managed to track down a 2MB Agnus chip that fits, the docs say that would work too, but these are pretty rare. I might have to just make do with 1MB.

The board has 1MB of RAM installed which I've configured as all chip memory. You can reconfigure it for 512 chip and 512 slow (similar config to an A500 with the 512KB trapdoor expansion) while the sidecar expansion is 1MB fast. Funnily enough, if I configure for 512KB/512KB Chip/Slow, sysinfo reports about 3% faster speed than 1MB/1MB chip/fast? I thought the whole thing with slow memory was that it was like chip memory (controlled by agnus, which introduces a delay as the CPU can't access it every cycle) but processor had exclusive use of it, while fast mem was controlled by processor and could access it on every cycle so there was no delay. Strange.


Anyway, while I'm waiting for the chips and programmer to arrive I've been keeping busy. I've stripped the machine and cleaned it, and tried to retrobright it. I tried using cling wrap to prevent the retrobright from drying out unfortunately this just made it brighten the plastic unevenly (wherever there was a crease in the cling wrap). I work full time and I don't want to leave it out in the hot aussie sun from 8-5 without being able to check on it every hour or so... and I've been busy on weekends so its been slow progress on this front.


In the meantime I've managed to get a working keyboard.


The one that was missing the spacebar had only 4 or so dead keyswitches plus the missing switch for the spacebar. I managed to get the others working with a few squirts of WD40 to loosen them up. I managed to desolder 5 working ones off the other board (which had missing keys all over the place but funnily enough QWERTY at least worked fine) and solder them onto the new board.

I've also since replaced the dead clock battery with a coin cell holder so as to make replacements easier in the future





I've also replaced the corroded old RCA jacks with nice, clean new ones





Everything is humming along nicely :) It definitely sounds a lot clearer with the new RCA jacks.




I also got the steel wool and some Autosol and polished up those metal brackets on the edge connectors, they are still dull but at least they aren't brown and rusty any more. I don't think these serve any purpose anyway? the sidecar doesn't even touch them when its installed.
I tried to polish up the RF shields but they were too far gone. After an hour of furious scrubbing and polishing they still looked crap so I've put them aside for now.


So now its basically just waiting for the chip and programmer to arrive, at which point I hope to get the FPU, kickstart switcher and SCSI working. Planning to get a 50 pin SCSI card reader so I can install workbench to it.
Most B2000 CPU expansion card don't look like they'll fit inside the standard A1000 case so I'll just forget about that for now.
 

Offline amigadave

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2011, 04:07:50 AM »
@DonutKing,

It looks like the A1000 you have went to the right guy.  It is great to see that you are spending the time to lovingly restore it and find the missing chips.

I have not yet begun to work on assembling my GBA1000 replacement motherboard, but I imagine that I will need a GAL programmer like the one you have purchased for some of the chips that I will need for that project.  It might be easier to complete, if I knew how to read German, but I am sure I will be able to get what ever documentation from Georg Braun's website translated to English so I can understand them and complete the project.  I need to check up on the other 45+ people that purchased their GBA1000 motherboards at the same time I did to see how they are progressing.

That is one Amiga that I will be keeping and won't be included in the sale or auctions I am setting up on eBay right now.

Keep up the excellent progress reports.  They are very interesting, specially with pictures!  :)

I hope you can complete the restoration and get the chips programmed that you need.  Good Luck!
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline TCMSLP

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2011, 09:16:09 AM »
What a fantastic peice of history.  I love the quotes too - especially the 'whatever you perceive her to be' misquote, all very discordian.  Fantastic find - and as others have said, it certainly seems to have found home with the right person :)
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Offline Markus_Bieler

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2011, 10:00:34 AM »
You might take  a look at, unforetunatly most in German.

http://www.a1k.org/

Markus
 

Offline DonutKingTopic starter

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Re: Picked up a 1000 today...
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 02, 2011, 09:49:13 PM »
Quote from: amigadave;666195
@DonutKing,

It looks like the A1000 you have went to the right guy.  It is great to see that you are spending the time to lovingly restore it and find the missing chips.



Thanks for the kind words :)

How does that GBA1000 come? Is it just a bare board and you need to source the components yourself?


Quote from: Markus_Bieler;666219
You might take  a look at, unforetunatly most in German.

http://www.a1k.org/

Markus



Quote from: DonutKing
Thankfully one of the users at a1k.org was kind enough to identify and dump the missing chips for me


:confused: