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Author Topic: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970  (Read 9632 times)

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Offline Kronos

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2004, 04:06:32 AM »
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:

At least the AmigaOne costs less than a Terron board bought straight from MAI!


And how much would that be ? And no we ain't talking bout an evaluation-board
with full developer-support......

And even those get an hefty price-drop by just ordering 2-5 boards, and
an unknown price for 6 and more. A number even an smaller Amiga-dealer
could easily handle.

@Argo
Eyetech just resel what MAI has developed, so they are far from being the best
source for info on the upcoming boards.

But lets be realistic (or overly optimistic if we look at the delays round ArticiaS/P).
MAI has just licenced those techs, and it will take atleast a year to get a minimal
working chip. Another 6 months to get a eval-board ready and cure the chips from
it's major flaws (and those will be there as they have have 0 experience in fast busses
and DDR-interfaces). 6 months for developing a retail-ready version of said eval-board
and to get OS4.x working on it.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline reflect

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2004, 02:42:27 PM »
I'm a little surprised by the negativity here. It's not like it's an impossibility that there will be a G5 based Amiga in the future, and to not make plans now towards the future, is pure stupidity. And, "plans" in this case is sketches, remembering what was tough to bring forth with the A1 so that it can be avoided for the next time, etc etc etc.

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Offline Rodney

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2004, 03:37:14 PM »
Quote

lempkee wrote:
hehe shame genesi ditched mai :)



As far as i know, they use marvel chips now instead of mai and marvel have had the licences to use this technology for months. Yer real shame.
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We are Spirits having a Human experiance.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2004, 04:12:40 PM »
Quote

reflect wrote:
I'm a little surprised by the negativity here. It's not like it's an impossibility that there will be a G5 based Amiga in the future, and to not make plans now towards the future, is pure stupidity. And, "plans" in this case is sketches, remembering what was tough to bring forth with the A1 so that it can be avoided for the next time, etc etc etc.



I think one of the issues here, is that while there is no doubt that a PPC970 (I'm loathed to use the Apple G5 term) machine which is able to run OS4 will be available in the future. The question becomes when... MAI have not proven themselves to be very swift with products in the past, they will need to work triple time to restore confidence in them.

The offical "Amiga" technology is now generations behind the leading edge. Had the orginal machines been in such a position I would never have bought one.

Offline dammy

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2004, 06:18:04 PM »
by Seehund on 2004/1/2 16:37:55

Quote
But there IS a "G5 Amiga" already, since almost half a year. Apple sold 667,000 PowerMacs last year, of which a sizeable chunk are G5 PowerMacs.


LOL!  Don't forget to include C3 mobo and a Opteron mobo as AROS 1s. ;)

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2004, 06:24:22 PM »
Quote

dammy wrote:
by Seehund on 2004/1/2 16:37:55

Quote
But there IS a "G5 Amiga" already, since almost half a year. Apple sold 667,000 PowerMacs last year, of which a sizeable chunk are G5 PowerMacs.


LOL!  Don't forget to include C3 mobo and a Opteron mobo as AROS 1s. ;)



hmmmm... an AROS1?? :-)

Like this I suppose

Offline Seehund

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2004, 08:27:44 PM »
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:

At least the AmigaOne costs less than a Terron board bought straight from MAI!


You mean the other way round, surely?

Recently Mai don't seem to want to acknowledge the currently available Terons; you might get the same reply as I did: try asking at eyetech.com (sic!)
Before this turn, they said $500 for an 800MHz G4 Teron PX (i.e. "AmigaOne XE"). That's also the same price as Terrasoft was going to charge before they dropped the Teron idea.

Eyetech's RRP for the boards when sold as "AmigaOnes" seems to be $800, and I see from the current amiga.org ad that Forefront is selling them for "only" $750. :)
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2004, 08:33:29 PM »
Quote

Seehund wrote:
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:

At least the AmigaOne costs less than a Terron board bought straight from MAI!


You mean the other way round, surely?

Recently Mai don't seem to want to acknowledge the currently available Terons; you might get the same reply as I did: try asking at eyetech.com (sic!)
Before this turn, they said $500 for an 800MHz G4 Teron PX (i.e. "AmigaOne XE"). That's also the same price as Terrasoft was going to charge before they dropped the Teron idea.

Eyetech's RRP for the boards when sold as "AmigaOnes" seems to be $800, and I see from the current amiga.org ad that Forefront is selling them for "only" $750. :)


I'm getting my prices from here

$3,900 !!

I guess these other companies are getting theirs super super bulk!

 :-o
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2004, 08:54:04 PM »
Hello ? Anybody outthere capable of understanding what the words
"evaluation board" mean ? In contrast to retail that ...

You pay 3500 for the dev-support, and 500 for the HW.
Just look at the price-plunge you'll get from the 3rd board on.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline ikir

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2004, 08:55:57 PM »
It is very interesting, but..... do we really need G5 on our Amiga/Pegasos? In my opinion G3/G5 is enough... at least for a "resurrection".

I really love also have the dual-g4 module on my A1 :-)  I'm a dual processor fan :-P

Anyway... G4 933Mhz clockable to 1,3Ghz is enough for me 8-)
 

Offline DrFloppy

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2004, 11:36:54 PM »
I think that Eyetech should make a new stand and new policy to get concentrate to the latest technology that is still in development if they do that hardware wouldn't be out of date. That would mean that by the time the new Amiga hardware and software would be ready it would still be in current trend, that would be OK. But further more new technologies emerge every day the main stream now would be mobile devices and mobile multimedia. That means Amiga Inc. could be successful with their direction at mobiles. At the same time there are technologies that are not coverd yet, like stream data, Java, some other standards covered by software, and there is big hole covering wide range of external peripherial devices, their protocols and standards. There should be some Bluetooth and IrDA support, FireWire. Support of services such are special news sites with important informations about weather, traffic conditions, latest business updates, etc. Would't you like such reports waiting for you when you get up in the morning, I know I do.
Amiga hardware should be more modulised. Ther should be the same(at least) arhitecture like A4000 was, here I mean exchagable processor cards, motherboard with all supportive chipsets, exchangable doughterboard with different number of common buses like PCI, AGP, etc. ranged from those with 2 and up to at least 7 ports for big expansions. All other things should be as standard as possible. If this would be done that waywe would be covered from the smallest Amiga ever to the biggest one that is still possible.
But for now I suggest that we buy what we can to support further develpment so we could get there and enjoy Amiga computers in near and far future.Maybe there would be one gadget that would make a difference even compared to better hardware - there should be flash disks to be used as bootable devices and Amiga would be operational in les than few seconds, I thint that would hel the most. There is a wide range of applications which can't stand few minutes of inoperative states after accidental terminations or failures and had to be up and working as soon as possible. I think Amiga would get a lot of new users that way. MicroA1 would make a very nice car multimedia center with some 16:9 LCD touchscreen.
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Offline Kronos

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2004, 11:52:48 PM »
@DrFloppy

Eyetech has zero, nada, 0, niente in engineering resources, and I somehow
doubt that Alan has enough $$$ to change that.

All he can do is buy in what ever gets developed by MAI.

Even Apple with millions of sold unit, and billions in share-value has a rather
hard time just keeping up with what Wintel&AMD develop.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2004, 02:54:52 AM »
@ikir

AmigaTWO will be a dual processor system. (That's what the number in the name stands for.)  If AmigaOS starts to catch on again then we'll see about dual processor support.  8-)
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2004, 03:03:17 AM »
Quote

SamuraiCrow wrote:
@ikir

AmigaTWO will be a dual processor system. (That's what the number in the name stands for.)  If AmigaOS starts to catch on again then we'll see about dual processor support.  8-)
Where do you get that from?
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2004, 07:05:35 AM »
Quote
Piru:  (G5) is not going to happen for some time.

Not with Apple in the way, that's for sure.  It cracks me up to hear people complaining about x86 and competition from Microsoft, when x86 chips run more operating systems than any other CPU in the world.  No matter what hardware you use, you'll have to compete with SOMEONE.  That's business.

Quote
Downix:  Can it all of you. We need to stop acting like children here.

Aw, c'mon.  You know Internet forums aren't a place for serious discussion.  :-)

Quote
Argo:  I don't think anyone outside of Eyetech would know anything about the "AmigaTwo". It's probably far in the future, computer timewise.

God, it still amazes me that people bought Amiga hardware so long before any software was available.  OS 4 on AmigaTwo is a scary thought.  Even an OS 3.95 would have been welcome!

Admit it, how many people would have turned down the opportunity to buy OS 3.95?  Instead, we got $50 coupons...

Quote
On the other hand, if MAI can get the new chipset out bug free, it could possibly be used for the Pegasos III!!!!

OK, I haven't followed up on this, but wasn't the bug related to the VIA southbridge and not the MIA northbridge?  Besides, I thought the southbridge was responsible for handling DMA, timers, and the hard drive controller.

Any way you slice it, somebody is denying responsibility... and VIA is still crap hardware (and I speak from plenty of experience).

Quote
But lets be realistic (or overly optimistic if we look at the delays round ArticiaS/P).
MAI has just licenced those techs, and it will take atleast a year to get a minimal
working chip. Another 6 months to get a eval-board ready and cure the chips from
it's major flaws (and those will be there as they have have 0 experience in fast busses
and DDR-interfaces). 6 months for developing a retail-ready version of said eval-board
and to get OS4.x working on it.

And remember, this was all done to make sure the Amiga had a supirior platform to the PC, because those evil x86 guys know nothing about making a good computer!

OS developers and Microsoft bashers should take notes...

Quote
reflect:  I'm a little surprised by the negativity here.

Four years under the rule of Amiga Inc... and no products... will tend to do that.

Quote
The offical "Amiga" technology is now generations behind the leading edge. Had the orginal machines been in such a position I would never have bought one.

The original Amigas were fully working systems with both hardware and an OS ready at the same time.  Just think what would've happened if you had to run a C64-type system on the Amiga 1000 a year before Workbench 1.0 arrived.

Nobody buys computers in parts.  People want prebuilt systems.  For every do-it-yourself computer built in the world today, how many Dells, Compaqs, and Gateways are sold?

Quote
DrFloppy:  I think that Eyetech should make a new stand and new policy to get concentrate to the latest technology that is still in development if they do that hardware wouldn't be out of date.

The closest thing they can offer is a trade-in deal.

Given that the AmigaOne was shipped with a ROM, and not a flashable EEPROM, I think that should say something about the support commitment of Amiga companies these days.

Quote
Amiga hardware should be more modulised.

Try hiring someone to build such a machine, and you'll get quite a sticker shock.  For years, companies have been working towards integrated systems.  Now that many CPU engineers are putting northbridges into the CPU core, I wonder how long it will be before it becomes common practice to solder the CPU into the motherboard, therefore "matching" a CPU to a chipset and thus offering a "guarentee" for the best possible performance.

See?  Amiga isn't as backwards as you might think!  :-)

Quote
there should be flash disks to be used as bootable devices and Amiga would be operational in les than few seconds

The reason computers take so long to boot up is because of hardware tests and verification.  So long as a system has to check to see if you've swapped your video card since the last time you boot up, systems will always take a minute or so to start.  Instant boot times are possible only on highly integrated systems where the hardware configuration never changes and bootup times are absolutely critical, such as PDA's and cell phones.  Desktop computers will probably always use sleep mode instead of an instant-on feature.

Finicky licenses and piracy concerns will probably cease any ability to boot from removable media.  It's not really a technology issue.

For those who haven't figured it out, marketing and personal issues usually trump technology issues... even on Linux!

PS - I tried Gentoo Linux today, and I can't get it to boot.  I boot from the CD, hit enter to start the kernel, and it locks up immediately with no feedback.  This is the *NINTH* distro I've tried to install and run into a problem.

Any advice?   :-?
 

Offline HopperJF

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Re: Articia I, AmigaTwo, 970
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 05, 2004, 09:54:37 AM »
Quote

iamaboringperson wrote:
Quote

SamuraiCrow wrote:
@ikir

AmigaTWO will be a dual processor system. (That's what the number in the name stands for.)  If AmigaOS starts to catch on again then we'll see about dual processor support.  8-)
Where do you get that from?


yeah i was thinking the same thing.. has it even been announced yet? at LEAST 2 years then :lol:
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