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Author Topic: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!  (Read 29063 times)

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Offline Cosmos Amiga

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2011, 08:33:40 AM »
Quote from: alexh;654388
Dennis van Weeren left the scene


Any news about this cool guy ?

Offline unusedunused

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2011, 09:53:19 AM »
Quote from: Piru;654298
And specifically G3 which had abysmal performance. Peg2 with G4 is a lot faster. I wonder why he didn't compare it against that?


They're not. They're to be expected with proper bus management. Atari accelerators have had this for ages for instance.

And wy you do not post values of the G3 600 ?
Gunnar write that natami is faster in memory transfer as a PPC with 600 MHZ.So you should test it with a PPC run at 600 MHZ, if you want something usefull post.

when somebody write a 100 MHZ PPC is in memory transfer faster as a 200 MHZ X86 and a guy post that is not true, my 2.6 GHZ PC have this faster transfer rate.

and also remember natami is a shared memory design, and it is able to read and write fast to gfx card.maybe it is here faster as a Mac mini too.

how fast the fastest MOS able systems(i guess MOS do not support PCIe) can read and write data to or from GFX Card ?

You can not compare performance with a FPGA system good.natami can get routines in vhdl that work lots faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconfigurable_computing

also when a amiga is oin fpga it can produce forerver, no miss Chips that not produce anymore or hard to get in small quantities.If the fpga is not produce, simple use another fpga and natami run more faster.lets see how powerfull fpga are in 10 years and which MOS or OS4 Hardware is then here

>Comparing the results against 7447 with 166MHz bus and proper chipset would have >given a slightly different picture:

>write: 774 MB/s
>read: 375MB/s


My I5 760 PC with DDR3 and winuae reach (remember X86 need byteswap the data)

read fast long 1624 MB/sec
write fast long 1218 MB/sec
fast2fast long 1082 MB/sec
fast2fastm 2492 MB /sec

and btw a 68k in fpga with the powerful movem instruction, can be lots faster access mem.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 12:37:12 PM by bernd_afa »
 

Offline HenryCase

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2011, 10:21:32 AM »
Quote from: Franko;654347
@ alexh
the NatAmi is basically promising 100% backwards compatibility


Wrong. They have never promised this, the only project that has promised 100% compatibility (or as close to 100% as is possible) is CloneA.

Think about it like this, is a stock Commodore A1200 able to run 100% of Amiga software? Even with hacks like WHDLoad, an A1200 will probably struggle to run some old OCS software (stuff that relies on Kick 1.2 for instance). There has never been (AFAIK) an Amiga that ran 100% of all Amiga software.

On top of this, backwards compatibility has never been the prime focus of Natami (unlike the CloneA), but rather the focus has been on pushing the Amiga architecture forward. Here's an interview (from March 2011) with a Natami team member that gives a more realistic assessment:
http://www.reviewmylife.co.uk/blog/2011/03/23/natami-native-amiga-interview/
Quote
7. How do you go about designing the chipsets to be compatible with the original Amiga chipsets?

We can’t give a compatibility percentage yet but any game that already runs on a 68060-AGA-amiga is very likely to run also on Natami. With WHDload there is already a project improving compatibility of the old games and this project also helps the games on Natami.


Quote from: Franko;654347

Kinda think all you "doubters" are deliberately missing the point in the NatAmi... ;)


You're missing the point about the statements that have been made in this thread. The people who have commented aren't against Natami per se, but rather have disagreed with distorted statements about the Natami. It's the statements that are the issue, not the hardware.

Just like them, I like the Natami, and am interested in seeing it released, but get pissed off when people make stupid statements about the power it'll have, as it makes the project seem more ridiculous than it actually is. Tone down the hype and all will be well.
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Offline Piru

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2011, 10:21:42 AM »
Quote from: bernd_afa;654405
And wy you do not post values of the G3 600 ?
Gunnar write that natami is faster in memory transfer as a PPC with 600 MHZ.So you should test it with a PPC run at 600 MHZ, if you want something usefull post.
You missed my point. It's common knowledge that Pegasos2 G3 sucks in memory performance department. Pegasos2 G3 is particularly slow in memory operations, slower than some other G3 systems with some other chip sets. So it does not give you G3 600 memory performance benchmark to compare against.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 10:24:38 AM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2011, 10:23:28 AM »
Quote from: HenryCase;654410
You're missing the point about the statements that have been made in this thread. The people who have commented aren't against Natami per se, but rather have disagreed with distorted statements about the Natami. It's the statements that are the issue, not the hardware.

Just like them, I like the Natami, and am interested in seeing it released, but get pissed off when people make stupid statements about the power it'll have, as it makes the project seem more ridiculous than it actually is. Tone down the hype and all will be well.
++
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2011, 10:29:25 AM »
I'm excited about this hardware, and for one prefer to have the actual facts.

One thing I can say though that deeply saddens me about all these new Amiga clones is that NONE of them will work with old Amiga hardware such as the Toaster, SuperGen+, ChromaKey+, etc.

With that in mind, we are still witnessing the death of a large piece of Amiga history. When our original Amigas die, it dies. :(
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Forcie

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2011, 10:43:32 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;654416
I'm excited about this hardware, and for one prefer to have the actual facts.

One thing I can say though that deeply saddens me about all these new Amiga clones is that NONE of them will work with old Amiga hardware such as the Toaster, SuperGen+, ChromaKey+, etc.

With that in mind, we are still witnessing the death of a large piece of Amiga history. When our original Amigas die, it dies. :(

Amiga genlocking works on Natami. I expect external genlocks to work just fine.
We decided to put 15KHz RGB video output/input on a small expansion board to keep costs down for people who are fine with just having DVI/VGA.

Zorro cards is a different question. Natami is PCI only for now. Theoretically, a Zorro expansion could be made for the SZorro bus. This is not anything we will be pursuing ourselves, but we take care not to break the possibility of doing it. (AutoConfig-wise, etc.)
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2011, 10:50:19 AM »
Oh really?!?

So now I'm spreading false media? :)


Quote from: Forcie;654421
Amiga genlocking works on Natami. I expect external genlocks to work just fine.
We decided to put 15KHz RGB video output/input on a small expansion board to keep costs down for people who are fine with just having DVI/VGA.

Zorro cards is a different question. Natami is PCI only for now. Theoretically, a Zorro expansion could be made for the SZorro bus. This is not anything we will be pursuing ourselves, but we take care not to break the possibility of doing it. (AutoConfig-wise, etc.)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Franko

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2011, 10:51:21 AM »
Quote from: HenryCase;654410
Wrong. They have never promised this, the only project that has promised 100% compatibility


Erm... afraid your wrong there... when I first heard of the NatAmi last year and visited the site 100% backwards compatibility was clearly stated on it and is the main reason why I support this project so much... ;)

Quote
Think about it like this, is a stock Commodore A1200 able to run 100% of Amiga software? Even with hacks like WHDLoad, an A1200 will probably struggle to run some old OCS software (stuff that relies on Kick 1.2 for instance). There has never been (AFAIK) an Amiga that ran 100% of all Amiga software.


Well... duh... were not talking about the user having to add hacks or stuff like WHDload just to run some games, when they said 100% backwards compatible I realised that this would mean the same problems a REAL A1200 would have for example in trying to run some really old stuff... ;)

Quote
On top of this, backwards compatibility has never been the prime focus of Natami (unlike the CloneA), but rather the focus has been on pushing the Amiga architecture forward. Here's an interview (from March 2011) with a Natami team member that gives a more realistic assessment:
http://www.reviewmylife.co.uk/blog/2011/03/23/natami-native-amiga-interview/


Well like I say that's not what I read last year on their site and it's the main reason why I think the NatAmi is such a promising piece of kit, so either your wrong or they lied on their website, only time will tell... :)
 
Quote
You're missing the point about the statements that have been made in this thread. The people who have commented aren't against Natami per se, but rather have disagreed with distorted statements about the Natami. It's the statements that are the issue, not the hardware.

Just like them, I like the Natami, and am interested in seeing it released, but get pissed off when people make stupid statements about the power it'll have, as it makes the project seem more ridiculous than it actually is. Tone down the hype and all will be well.


Cobblers... if you believe that then your dumber than I gave you credit for... ;)

If people are so "pissed off" about stupid statements then complain to the NatAmi team and site as I am only going by what I have read on their site... :)

This project may "seem ridiculous" to you and it's obvious you don't like it despite your claim to the contrary, so lets just say I choose to believe what the developers say rather than someone who just seems to want to criticise them for the sake of it... ;)

PS: Tone down the criticising and every thing will be hunkey dorey... :)
 

Offline HenryCase

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2011, 11:03:02 AM »
Quote from: Franko;654425
Erm... afraid your wrong there... when I first heard of the NatAmi last year and visited the site 100% backwards compatibility was clearly stated on it and is the main reason why I support this project so much... ;)


You should support the CloneA then. The Natami team have never promised 100% backwards compatibility, if you know they did then share the website link.

Quote from: Franko;654425

This project may "seem ridiculous" to you and it's obvious you don't like it despite your claim to the contrary


Really? Let's look at it this way, offers to join the Natami team:
HenryCase: 1
Franko: ???

As I said before, I like the Natami, have supported it/defended it for about 3/4 years, and am excited about its release. What annoys me is the fanboys who make outlandish claims not based in reality (plenty of examples if you need them), which makes it harder for people like me to convince skeptics to take the project seriously.

I'm repeating myself now, if you can't understand that I don't have a problem with the Natami by now then you're not listening.
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Offline KesaTopic starter

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2011, 11:16:07 AM »
Quote from: HenryCase;654429
You should support the CloneA then. The Natami team have never promised 100% backwards compatibility, if you know they did then share the website link.



Really? Let's look at it this way, offers to join the Natami team:
HenryCase: 1
Franko: ???

As I said before, I like the Natami, have supported it/defended it for about 3/4 years, and am excited about its release. What annoys me is the fanboys who make outlandish claims not based in reality (plenty of examples if you need them), which makes it harder for people like me to convince skeptics to take the project seriously.

I'm repeating myself now, if you can't understand that I don't have a problem with the Natami by now then you're not listening.

So now we are keeping score? Can you get any more childish?

I think this is nothing more than pessimism vs optimism. So can we just leave it at that? I for one am an optimist which means NatAmi rules supreme!  :)
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2011, 11:19:22 AM »
I for one am a pessi-optimist.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline HenryCase

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2011, 11:19:59 AM »
Quote from: Kesa;654433
So now we are keeping score? Can you get any more childish?


Nope, that's pretty much as childish as it gets for me, but if you have someone doubting whether you support the Natami you can't get a bigger indication that this is false than being offered to join the team making it.

Just as a side note, activity on Natami forums has been a little slow all of a sudden (no new posts this week), perhaps it would be good for Natami fans to show your appreciation in a more direct manner, get some activity going again:
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=0
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 11:22:39 AM by HenryCase »
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Offline Franko

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2011, 11:29:40 AM »
Quote from: HenryCase;654429
You should support the CloneA then. The Natami team have never promised 100% backwards compatibility, if you know they did then share the website link.


Erm... here where it says "The Natami is compatible to the OCS/ECS/AGA AMIGA chipsets"

http://www.natami.net/amiga-compatible.htm

So unless the term "compatible" is being used here to mean "ok it might be wee bit compatible and not exactly quite compatible" then I take that to mean it will be 100% friggin compatible... ;)

Quote
Really? Let's look at it this way, offers to join the Natami team:
HenryCase: 1
Franko: ???


Big deal "you offered to join the NatAmi team" heck I offered to join the Brownies but I don't boast about it and what the frig has that got to do with the price of cheese in Afghanistan... :rolleyes:

PS: They turned me down cos I didn't have a beard... :(

Quote
As I said before, I like the Natami, have supported it/defended it for about 3/4 years, and am excited about its release. What annoys me is the fanboys who make outlandish claims not based in reality (plenty of examples if you need them), which makes it harder for people like me to convince skeptics to take the project seriously.

I'm repeating myself now, if you can't understand that I don't have a problem with the Natami by now then you're not listening.


You've got a strange way of showing your support, lets see... hmmm... you back up people who pop into a thread rattling their gums about other processor speeds that have sod all to do with the Natami, then you complain about folk saying how a happy they are about the NatAmi and tell them not to "hype" it up by saying things that have been clearly claimed on the NatAmi site and elsewhere... :rolleyes:

Yeah you're a really great supporter of the project aint ya... ;)

Note to self: Never have HeadCase sorry HenryCase on your side, stick to your enemies, at least their consistent... :)
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2011, 11:30:35 AM »
So will this be PAL based or NTSC based?
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline KesaTopic starter

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Re: 3 more NatAmi's - Yippee!
« Reply #59 from previous page: August 13, 2011, 11:30:58 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;654435
I for one am a pessi-optimist.

How does that work? :confused:
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