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Offline thedocbwarrenTopic starter

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Super High Res
« on: June 01, 2011, 04:18:12 AM »
Question about this mode (that is 1280x200.)  I've wondered if this mode is for real.  I can't tell since I don't have a monitor yet that works well with my 1200 but when I used the one monitor that seems to display 640x200 fairly well, I figured I'd try 1280x200.  So this mode looks like a ruddy mess and still reports 640x200 on the monitor.  

I read something somwhere about this mode being fast pixels or some such, but other than double-scan I can't imagine what this is.
 

Offline runequester

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 06:05:46 AM »
Quote from: thedocbwarren;641653
Question about this mode (that is 1280x200.)  I've wondered if this mode is for real.  I can't tell since I don't have a monitor yet that works well with my 1200 but when I used the one monitor that seems to display 640x200 fairly well, I figured I'd try 1280x200.  So this mode looks like a ruddy mess and still reports 640x200 on the monitor.  

I read something somwhere about this mode being fast pixels or some such, but other than double-scan I can't imagine what this is.


well, it works but its barely usable.
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: Super High Res
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 06:09:02 AM »
Quote from: runequester;641655
well, it works but its barely usable.


I think an Indivision AGA would help here....
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Offline runequester

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 06:44:56 AM »
Quote from: NovaCoder;641656
I think an Indivision AGA would help here....


Not sure. It was pointless even on my old 1984
 

Offline Retro_71

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 08:00:16 AM »
not a good resolution to have i use high-res interlace on a Indi AGA look great and very useable. Just depends on what your spec for your A1200 are though.
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Offline Crumb

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 09:15:19 AM »
Quote from: thedocbwarren;641653
Question about this mode (that is 1280x200.)  I've wondered if this mode is for real.  I can't tell since I don't have a monitor yet that works well with my 1200 but when I used the one monitor that seems to display 640x200 fairly well, I figured I'd try 1280x200.  So this mode looks like a ruddy mess and still reports 640x200 on the monitor.  

I read something somwhere about this mode being fast pixels or some such, but other than double-scan I can't imagine what this is.


If you use 16 colours it will be fast.
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Offline Zac67

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 10:38:03 AM »
Quote from: thedocbwarren;641653
Question about this mode (that is 1280x200.)  I've wondered if this mode is for real.

Yes, it is. Your monitor requires sufficient resolution to use it though.

SuperHires works by doubling the Hires pixel clock to 35 ns. In addition to the normal NTSC and PAL modes it's also used for Productivity, DblPAL, DblNTSC and possibly some other modes with higher horizontal scan rate (and thus lower horizontal and higher vertical resolution).
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 01:33:20 PM »
Well the icons should shrink to 50% width on screen.

But unless you have AGA it's not of any use to most.
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: Super High Res
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 08:50:41 PM »
I think it was intended for video titling programs - it makes things a little too small for desktop use.

Most scandoublers can't handle it, so you need a genuine Amiga monitor or an Indivision.
 

Offline thedocbwarrenTopic starter

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2011, 04:42:30 AM »
I'm bloody confused with all that.  So I have an AGA Amiga (1200) and the mode 'works' just looks blurry.  So I think I userstand the ide behind keeping it 200-256 lines to keep compatibility with broadcast, but I don't understand 1280 if it's not 1280.  So the 'clock' meaning double scan?  It's not  a 30Hz mode so I don't quick get what's doubled if it's not really 1280 pixels across?

What's faster about 16 colours?  I thought it was restricted to 4?
 

Offline thedocbwarrenTopic starter

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2011, 04:45:53 AM »
Quote from: Zac67;641686
Yes, it is. Your monitor requires sufficient resolution to use it though.

SuperHires works by doubling the Hires pixel clock to 35 ns. In addition to the normal NTSC and PAL modes it's also used for Productivity, DblPAL, DblNTSC and possibly some other modes with higher horizontal scan rate (and thus lower horizontal and higher vertical resolution).


Not quite following, so it's doubling the 640 res (hense 1280) but I don't get the it's used for other modes.  What's used?

Why does my monitor still report 640x200 but the screen is squished?

Sorry for being thick about this.
 

Offline Jiffy

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2011, 09:31:44 AM »
Quote from: thedocbwarren;641836

Why does my monitor still report 640x200 but the screen is squished?

Sorry for being thick about this.

Your monitor isn't capable of displaying 1280x200 and tries to make the best of it. It gets squished horizontally because the horizontal resolution is doubled and thus the size (not the resolution, just the physical size on screen) of icons and stuff is reduced by 50%.

In reality, 1280x200/256 is hardly ever used.
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Offline Zac67

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2011, 10:16:32 AM »
Sounds like you're using a digital monitor - since it's digital it samples the analogue signal and outputs what's been sampled. If the sampling rate is too low (only half of pixel frequency) every other pixel gets lost. As it seems, your monitor has no idea that the Amiga is outputting such a high pixel rate.

Look at the way a video output or (analogue) monitor works: the video hardware just outputs a stream of pixels; for Lores they're 140 ns apart (long), for Hires 70 ns and for SuperHires just 35 ns. In the monitor these pixels modulate an electron beam that scans the screen, moving from left to right. After some time - when the desired line length is reached - a horizontal sync pulse tells the monitor to quit scanning horizontally but move to the next line directly underneath and rewind to the left edge. When the desired frame height is reached a vertical sync pulse tells the monitor to rewind the scanning beam to the top left corner to start the next frame.

A fixed frequency monitor has a constant scan rate to make the beam cover the whole screen during a horizontal or a full vertical sweep. A multisync monitor has to track the vertical and horizontal sync rates and adjusts the sweep rates accordingly.

A digital (flat) monitor is more complex. It samples (A/D converts) the analogue signal into a buffer. To make sure none of the pixels gets lost it's required to pretty exactly match the sampling rate to the pixel rate by using an edge detection algorithm. Note that this exactly the way a flickerfixer works - in theory all flat screen integrate one, but in real life they're usually limited by the extent they can adapt to the signal.

The buffered image (hopefully resembling the original signal) is then output to the display matrix. On LCD screens there's no sweeping beam but rather a continuous memory matrix that you look at, thus the susceptibility to jitter and jerking.
 

Offline Crumb

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2011, 10:41:00 AM »
Quote from: Jiffy;641852
Your monitor isn't capable of displaying 1280x200 and tries to make the best of it. It gets squished horizontally because the horizontal resolution is doubled and thus the size (not the resolution, just the physical size on screen) of icons and stuff is reduced by 50%.

In reality, 1280x200/256 is hardly ever used.

Quarter-pixel scrolling games benefit from this ability.

16 colours is faster than 256 because it requires less DMA channels so it doesn't block cpu (just like 31Khz screenmodes).

IIRC my cbm 1084sd2 accepted 73Hz screenmodes and also showed 1280x256 correctly (without skipping any column) but it's been a long time (and I also had an eyefish vision like cbm 1942). I remember clearly that my Arxxon scandoubler and my Picasso4 skipped columns in SHires mode so I guess my 2 old monitors didn't (although the text was too small for a 14" monitor so I prefered to use other screenmodes)

CompServ FlickerFixerII and IndivisionAGA 1200/4000/ECS show SuperHiRes correctly.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 10:45:20 AM by Crumb »
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Offline blakespot

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Re: Super High Res
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2011, 02:23:57 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;641857
Quarter-pixel scrolling games benefit from this ability.


Can you point to a single game that utilizes this mode? I am pretty sure there are none.

Its only practical use is for video titling software, some of which I know supported the mode.




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