AmigaOS 4.1 Classic Available To Buy

[HammerD]

Absolutely no use in a Mediator system on an A1200 as you cannot fit a ZorRAM card in it as there is no Zorro 3 interface on a Mediator or on a standard A1200, it is only of any use in an A4000, and maybe an A3000 also.  Are you the owner of a PPC A4000 or A3000 by any chance?

Yes, however, the Blizzard with 256MB physical ram capability lessens the need for any ZorRAM.  You could use a swap partition on a SATA hard disk if you need it.  The Cyberstorm PPC can only take 128MB of physical ram, so that is why the ZorRAM is important in that case.

Again you are quoting using a piece of hardware, Deneb, that can ONLY be used in Zorro 3 interface, which doesn't exist in an A1200 Mediator system. What's more, if I got a little more speed out of a 100MB NIC, then that would be an improvement in any case, and I'd take that opportunity, but it's being denied us.

Possibly getting a couple hundred KB more out of a NIC, at least to me, isn't that compelling of a reason...but if that's a critical factor for you, that's your decision and nothing I can do to change it.

The ESS Solo-1 Soundcard is an old PCI card, and is now very difficult to get hold of, and I don't know of an Amiga supplier that stocks it, do you? The other soundcards are very easy to acquire, so why go and develop for a soundcard that is obscure and difficult to come by in significant numbers for Mediator users that might need one for Classic OS4.1?

No, but my local corner computer store had more than 10 in stock, brand new, for about $15 bucks each.  I bet they are still there, so at least for me it was easier to get that then to order one from an Amiga dealer.

Yes, but we're using a CLASSIC system here, and SCSI hardware is still a valid hardware format for CLASSIC systems, or else we wouldn't want a Classic OS 4.1 would we?

In any case why is the SCSI working on the A4000 accelerator cards, and not on the Blizzard SCSI adapter, if you know?

Which is why we have included SATA support - to allow users to use cheap and readily available SATA hard disks.  As I have stated in other threads, it is quite possible that work on the Blizzard PPC SCSI driver _may_ start after the BlizzardVision Warp3D driver.  It's not exactly easy to find someone to write this Blizzard SCSI Driver...trust me.  Go try to ask someone to write it...luckily we have a developer who is willing to take a crack at it, but he's very busy at the moment.   There are probably only about 5-6 people with the expertise to write the driver (who also have expertise on Amiga) and half of those people are MorphOS devleopers, who obviously won't write a driver for AmigaOS4, and of the other half, none of them remaining have Classic hardware except one.  Luckily he is a nice guy and has agreed to help out, time permitting.

The points you make have some validity, but your main argument still does not answer why the DMA hack is not supported/allowed?

It won't be done because it is a _hack_. It's ugly, it's messy, and it's not real DMA, and it doesn't DMA back to the system and would only allow a handful of other cards to work - most of which the functionality is _already_ covered and works quite fine, so the developers aren't going to do it.  I'm sorry but I've personally asked about it and they won't do it.

As we are using a CLASSIC system, then surely supporting CLASSIC hardware means supporting as much of the existing Classic Mediator hardware as possible to get the most from it.

You have to understand that resources are very limited.  If I had lots of money and lots of developers with the required hardware and skills to actually write drivers, then we would have more drivers.  The cold hard fact is that we don't and I don't see people volunteering to write more drivers for us...

Why allow the Radeon to function but dis-allow/prevent the Creative soundcards to function or the Spider USB card, or the TV card, or the faster RTL8139 NIC? It does not make any sense.

Those cards all require DMA.

We are limited enough by what cards are available for the Mediator system, and to be limited even further by the rarer sound amd NIC cards is not a plus point for Classic OS4.1, yet you seem to be singing it's praises that it's cut off the majority of cards that the Mediator supported by using the DMA hack.

Be careful with your words here, it is not the majority of cards.   Functionality _is_ available with alternate cards as I have mentioned.  Sound, Network, SATA, Graphics - it's all possible out-of-the-box.   Is it limited to specific cards? Yes.  Would I like more cards supported? Sure, but we don't have the resources (ie. time and money) to do it.  If you have several thousand dollars to hire a programmer then we could get one additional driver.

Not using a widely available soundcard which is what the ESS Solo-1 is, causes another problem for Mediator users as most opted for the more widely available Creative SB128 or similar models which are supported under the 68k Mediator PCI system drivers. So many users would have to hunt around on the internet to try to find one of these relatively obscure cards.

If you want me to get you a Solo-1 I can, as I said, they have >10 in stock at my local computer shop.  Send me a private message if you want.

But you are forgetting that most Mediator users will have the cards that have been cut off by the Classic OS4.1 not supporting/allowing the 68k DMA hack.

Again be careful with your words, how do you know "Most" users will be cut off?  Maybe YOU will be cut off, because you don't own the supported hardware, but that hardware is still available and cheap to obtain.

So they, and I'm included in that bunch, am not very happy about losing those cards functionality, and I don't hear of any replacement Mediator PCI drivers for more up-to-date PCI cards being developed, not even after 3 years of hard development work, for Classic OS4.1 to supercede/replace drivers for those type of cards in the Mediator, or are there?

I'm sorry your hardware isn't supported, but as I've said, we don't have the time or money to develop additional drivers at this time.  We've supported what we can and tried to cover all the functionality you need (Sound, Network, Graphics, Disk) out of the box.  Yes, support is limited to specific cards.   Sorry those aren't the ones you own.

Of course, I cannot know if Classic OS4.1 is a "far superior" experience, UNLESS I am prepared to spend £100, and from what you've said still doesn't fill me with joy.

I'm still stinging from the Classic Amiga OS4.0 release which as I've said was the worst Amiga Workbench experience I have EVER had, and one that even now, 3-4 years after it's release, still is putting me off.

That's a lot to do with Hyperion's lack of support for Classic OS4.0, and the poor product that was released due to the initial incompatabilities, which should have been fixed, well before it was released - sign of a hurried product released to the market place, before thorough testing had been completed properly.

Look, I'm not trying to sell you AmigaOS 4.1 Classic.  I'm just trying to point out that it does support a limited set of PCI hardware because it's not possible for Hyperion to write drivers for all the PCI cards out there.  I'm sorry but that's the reality of the market.  We support functionality people will need based on a limited set of cards.

If you think AmigaOS 4.1 Classic is not for you - then by all means do not buy it.

All I can say is myself and others have worked very hard to overcome many of the critical points against AmigaOS 4.0 Classic.  We had a limited timeline and limited budget.   We've done the best we can and I am proud of what we have accomplished - releasing a new OS for a 20 year old machines and 14 year old PPC accelerators is not easy.

PS - I was NOT really involved with AmigaOS 4.0 Classic so I can't speak for that product.

PPS - Even if the DMA hack worked, new drivers would still be required for ALL of the cards that you mention.  Elbox drivers are in 68k ASM and are not compatible with the PCI sub-system library interface of AmigaOS4.1 - they would all have to be entirely re-written.

[slayer]

Well explained HammerD,

I remember a few months back quickly trying to hook up my Prometheus to my A4000 to do trials with the Radeon and couldn't find the the proper power cable, but in my rather large collection of odd cables I found what I thought would be a great replacement...

Errr, short answer NO and I fried my Prometheus, I don't remember saying I could no longer test this avenue any longer, no, I simply went to AmigaKit and found the link for another Prometheus and it was shipped to me, certainly it was my fault for not waiting until I found the right cable (I still don't know where it is actually) but I was more concerned with continuing my part in beta testing OS4.x for the 604e... It cost me personally 117.48 euro...

The moral of the story, however vague it is, IS that people who are seriously passionate about there Amiga computers are genuinely passionate about them... they go that extra mile because they enjoy what they do... I have always wondered about the validity of "other" Amiga users who seem to always simply complain or "point out these realistic shortcomings" of everyone elses endevours... when ever I found myself with something that didn't work but I wanted to achieve X... I'd just go out and get the extra bits and by the next day I was running X!

I never ever complained about what I couldn't do or what wasn't there... It's just like my approach to life, take work for instance, my work is not just a job, it is my choice of employment at the moment, I am the best I can be... I don't have to be here, it's my choice...

If you want to use an Amiga system that faces all these cons today, then get on with it and enjoy it... otherwise seriously, give it up...

There are MANY MANY more examples of what people spend on things they enjoy that alot of us will never understand... but it doesn't stop them enjoying it does it?

[Daedalus]

>OS3.9 lists 6MB of Fast RAM in its requirements... Still a lot less, but 16 times less, not 50...

I know, but 6Mb isn't necessary, it will indeed boot on a 2Mb system.

And OS4 will boot in far less than 96MB too - but it'll be about as useful as OS3.9 in 2MB - i.e. not very.

[Nearly-Right]

Yes, however, the Blizzard with 256MB physical ram capability lessens the need for any ZorRAM.  You could use a swap partition on a SATA hard disk if you need it.

So how much RAM does Classic OS4.1 NEED to run, as a minimum?

I would of course get a SATA PCI card & HDD if I decided to buy OS4.1.

Do you know if the Squirrel SCSI device is usable under Classic OS4.1? As that would be an option to swap some of the data I have from a SCSI HDD or ZIP drive to some other HDD if required.

Possibly getting a couple hundred KB more out of a NIC, ...but if that's a critical factor for you, ...

It's obviously not critical, BUT the fact that the faster RTL8139 device works under OS3.9 but hasn't been supported under OS4.1 means I'd have to try to source one of those cards instead of an RTL8139. Not a lot of outlay, but more cost when I feel with all the time that's been available to support it, namely 8+ years of 'development' you'd think, have hoped, that the situation would have been grasped, handled better and fixed.

No, but my local corner computer store had more than 10 in stock, brand new, for about $15 bucks each.  I bet they are still there, so at least for me it was easier to get that then to order one from an Amiga dealer.

But you just said, if I understand your reply correctly, that 'No' you don't know of an Amiga dealer that stocks that soundcard.

I checked with AmigaKit - the suppliers of Classic OS4.1 who don't have any soundcards shown on a search of their site, other than the Delfina soundcard, so that's my point. They are not readily available, even on ebay I only came across 1 listed.

So if the suppliers of Classic OS4.1 don't even have them stocked then where are all the people who want one of these soundcards going to get one from?

I know you say you've a local shop that has a few, but that won't supply the demands of many that may be required if sales of Classic OS4.1 take off, and it'd be only the lucky few betatesters, and one or two others who may already have, or are going to end up with this obscure soundcard to take advantage of it being usable in a Mediator with Classic OS4.1. The SOLO soundcard is obscure, and hard to get hold of, and there should have been a more readily available soundcard chosen to be usable with Classic OS4.1.

As I have stated in other threads, it is quite possible that work on the Blizzard PPC SCSI driver _may_ start after the BlizzardVision Warp3D driver.

That's more optimistic than I've heard before, BUT after having been abandoned by Hyperion after Classic OS4.0 I'm not so sure the Blizzard SCSI driver will get its required time spent on development that will lead to a working driver for the SCSI side of the PPC cards. I'd like to be optimistic, but I feel more pessimistic right now.

Which is another justifiable reason for the Adaptec PCI SCSI cards to be supported, which it isn't/won't due to the DMA issue.

It's not exactly easy to find someone to write this Blizzard SCSI Driver...trust me. ...luckily we have a developer who is willing to take a crack at it, but he's very busy at the moment. ... Luckily he is a nice guy and has agreed to help out, time permitting.

That gives me more optimism, but I'm not holding my breath.

It won't be done because it is a _hack_. It's ugly, it's messy, and it's not real DMA, and it doesn't DMA back to the system ... , so the developers aren't going to do it.  I'm sorry but I've personally asked about it and they won't do it.

Of course it's not real DMA, the A1200 was never designed for real DMA from the accelerator port for the kind of functionality the Mediator supplies, but it works well in conjunction with the cards it supports.

I appreciate you asking about supporting the DMA hack, and I'm just interested to know why you asked them about it?

You have to understand that resources are very limited.

OK, I think I already understood the cost side of things, limited budget and all that, but to have limited the latest Classic OS4.1 to an older/slower NIC, and a soundcard that is basic, and generally hard to come by was not a good choice.

Is the chipset that's on the SOLO soundcard supported, so that any soundcard with the same chipset can be used or is it that specific design of the ESS-SOLO-1 soundcard that is supported? Basically would a Terratec 512i Digital be supported, or a HitPoint FM801 soundcard be usable under OS4.1 or not?

If you want me to get you a Solo-1 I can, as I said, they have >10 in stock at my local computer shop.  Send me a private message if you want.

I'm not so sure about getting Classic OS4.1 as yet, so I'll hold off on that, but thanks for the offer.

Again be careful with your words, how do you know "Most" users will be cut off?

Mediator users with 68k systems, considering upgrading more than likely will have Creative soundcards, none of which work under OS4.1, and the Spider USB card is also not supported under OS4.1, and the RTL8139 NIC is also not supported, never mind the TV/FM or SCSI cards, so consider the likelihood of the number of Mediator users with one, or more, of those cards in their setups, and then consider how many users will be adversely affected - that will be MOST.

Maybe YOU will be cut off, because you don't own the supported hardware, but that hardware is still available and cheap to obtain.

Maybe I won't be cut off, as I won't be moving to Classic OS4.1 any time soon it seems.

I'm sorry your hardware isn't supported, ... Sorry those aren't the ones you own.

Who said I don't own those supported cards!

Look, I'm not trying to sell you AmigaOS 4.1 Classic.  I'm just trying to point out that it does support a limited set of PCI hardware because it's not possible for Hyperion to write drivers for all the PCI cards out there.  I'm sorry but that's the reality of the market.  We support functionality people will need based on a limited set of cards.

So if you're still waiting on a developer to work on supporting the Blizzard SCSI device then you/Hyperion know that SCSI is important, but Classic OS4.1 won't support the Adaptec PCI SCSI option it seems, or the other PCI cards that need the DMA hack.

I've never known of any problems with the DMA hack under 68k, and with Elbox most likely to still be able to provide new compatible code for the DMA system they use, it seems Hyperion are not supporting the Mediator as well as it could be.

If you think AmigaOS 4.1 Classic is not for you - then by all means do not buy it.

All I can say is myself and others have worked very hard to overcome many of the critical points against AmigaOS 4.0 Classic.

I agree there were many critical points against Classic OS4.0, but I never got an apology from anyone from Hyperion when I pointed its failings out. I was basically told that it was basically well received, which frankly I cannot believe, especially when you looked at the forums at the time it was released as many users had lots of problems with booting, crashing, etc. Yet there was, and still is, no support, FAQ on any of the websites associated with the release of OS4.0 for the Classic Amiga.

A lack of information as to specifics of what cards are supported, or if it just the chipset or a specific manufacturers model of a card that is supported, and all the more critical factors of what you can have attached to your Classic Amiga system when using OS4.1.

I have a HyperCOM clockport card in one of my A1200s and like using it, but I'm not sure if that would be usable under Classic OS4.1. Surely more information as to which 68k based drivers will work under Classic OS4.1 should be made available.

We had a limited timeline and limited budget.   We've done the best we can and I am proud of what we have accomplished - releasing a new OS for a 20 year old machines and 14 year old PPC accelerators is not easy.

I agree with your remark, and don't get me wrong I am aware a lot of work has been put in to complete Classic OS4.1, but it's a lot of money for people who bought Classic OS4.0, and got little out of it, like me, only to then be asked to part with £100 (approx) for a x.1 update.

The level of criticism there was about the shabby level of compatibility when Classic OS4.0 was initially released was, in my opinion, justified, and is at last being addressed in OS4.1, but to ask those people who paid out for a FULL/NEW version of an Amiga OS to stump up for another FULL payment for what is basically an update is not fair.

PS - I was NOT really involved with AmigaOS 4.0 Classic so I can't speak for that product.

What does "not really involved" actually mean then. Either you did a little, something more than that, OR you did nothing at all to help in the development of Classic OS4.0, but not really involved is not a definitive position, is it?

PPS - Even if the DMA hack worked, new drivers would still be required for ALL of the cards that you mention.  Elbox drivers are in 68k ASM and are not compatible with the PCI sub-system library interface of AmigaOS4.1 - they would all have to be entirely re-written.

Well, Elbox are still a viable company, have they been asked to supply, and offered support, to create new drivers in-line with the PCI sub-system library interface of OS4.1?

I t want you to know I'm appreciative of your time, and effort, because I am really grateful for your insights into Classic OS4.1.

[TheGoose]

@HammerD

Thanks for those words. Maybe we will see the blizzppc.device working some day.

[HammerD]

So how much RAM does Classic OS4.1 NEED to run, as a minimum?

I would of course get a SATA PCI card & HDD if I decided to buy OS4.1.

Do you know if the Squirrel SCSI device is usable under Classic OS4.1? As that would be an option to swap some of the data I have from a SCSI HDD or ZIP drive to some other HDD if required.

I'm not sure about the Squirrel.  If the driver behaves the rules and doesn't make assumptions of hardware by peeking/poking  system structures then it could work.

It's obviously not critical, BUT the fact that the faster RTL8139 device works under OS3.9 but hasn't been supported under OS4.1 means I'd have to try to source one of those cards instead of an RTL8139.

Well that card needs DMA so it won't work.  That is not going to change so you're just going to have to find a RTL8029 network card.  A 30 second google search brought one up for sale on ebay for $15 dollars:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Realtek-RTL8029AS-32-bit-PCI-w-RJ-45-10BaseT-/280470779616?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414d5c76e0#ht_500wt_1025

But you just said, if I understand your reply correctly, that 'No' you don't know of an Amiga dealer that stocks that soundcard.

Well I haven't looked, since there is ample supply 3 KM from my house at my local corner computer store.  Maybe it would make sense for AmigaKit or other dealers to stock that card.

I checked with AmigaKit - the suppliers of Classic OS4.1 who don't have any soundcards shown on a search of their site, other than the Delfina soundcard, so that's my point. They are not readily available, even on ebay I only came across 1 listed.

So if the suppliers of Classic OS4.1 don't even have them stocked then where are all the people who want one of these soundcards going to get one from?

Well Paula still works quite well - remember all the Classic Amigas have a good built-in sound chip which is supported both in 4.0 and 4.1.  If you have a good set of speakers Paula still sounds amazing.  In my machines I often use Paula still.  So a sound card is not absolutely required.

The SOLO soundcard is obscure, and hard to get hold of, and there should have been a more readily available soundcard chosen to be usable with Classic OS4.1.

Well my offer still stands if you need one.

That's more optimistic than I've heard before, BUT after having been abandoned by Hyperion after Classic OS4.0 I'm not so sure the Blizzard SCSI driver will get its required time spent on development that will lead to a working driver for the SCSI side of the PPC cards. I'd like to be optimistic, but I feel more pessimistic right now.

Which is another justifiable reason for the Adaptec PCI SCSI cards to be supported, which it isn't/won't due to the DMA issue.

I would remind you that it is totally possible for anyone to write drivers.  The SDK is out there, there are several websites that help people with AmigaOS4 programming, and you can always E-mail Hyperion for support.   Hyperion can't write all the drivers.  

Our Warp3D Permedia2 programmer is really great and he's spent ALOT of time on the driver.  he's just terribly busy at the moment so his first priority is to finish the permedia2 driver, then he can look into the blizzard PPC scsi driver.

I appreciate you asking about supporting the DMA hack, and I'm just interested to know why you asked them about it?

I've been on the beta testing team since 2003, I directly asked Hyperion about adding the DMA hack and they won't.  If proper DMA was available it would work.  To my knowledge Elbox has not offered any source code to implment such a DMA hack, and it is in 68K asm anyway so not useful.

Since this is Elbox's hardware perhaps you should be asking them why they don't have more OS4 drivers for their hardware?  Just a thought, maybe it would help if the users demanded of Elbox more OS4.1 drivers.

OK, I think I already understood the cost side of things, limited budget and all that, but to have limited the latest Classic OS4.1 to an older/slower NIC, and a soundcard that is basic, and generally hard to come by was not a good choice.

The list of PCI cards that can work with PIO is rather limited, so we basically had no choice.

Is the chipset that's on the SOLO soundcard supported, so that any soundcard with the same chipset can be used or is it that specific design of the ESS-SOLO-1 soundcard that is supported? Basically would a Terratec 512i Digital be supported, or a HitPoint FM801 soundcard be usable under OS4.1 or not?

If they have an ESS 1969 chip then it should work.

I'm not so sure about getting Classic OS4.1 as yet, so I'll hold off on that, but thanks for the offer.

Well, up to you.  As I said it's not my job to sell it to you  I'm here for free technical support for registered users, really.

Mediator users with 68k systems, considering upgrading more than likely will have Creative soundcards, none of which work under OS4.1, and the Spider USB card is also not supported under OS4.1, and the RTL8139 NIC is also not supported, never mind the TV/FM or SCSI cards, so consider the likelihood of the number of Mediator users with one, or more, of those cards in their setups, and then consider how many users will be adversely affected - that will be MOST.

As I stated above, perhaps it's time for the users to demand of Elbox to port their drivers to OS4.1.  Hyperion can't be expected to do it all.

Who said I don't own those supported cards!

Well, good, then you won't have to buy them

So if you're still waiting on a developer to work on supporting the Blizzard SCSI device then you/Hyperion know that SCSI is important, but Classic OS4.1 won't support the Adaptec PCI SCSI option it seems, or the other PCI cards that need the DMA hack.

I've never known of any problems with the DMA hack under 68k, and with Elbox most likely to still be able to provide new compatible code for the DMA system they use, it seems Hyperion are not supporting the Mediator as well as it could be.

Well Hyperion is supporting proper DMA, which is something the Mediator lacks.  Elbox is free to develop OS4.1 drivers as well, as I've said.  In fact they did include a the FastATA driver with AmigaOS4.1 Classic.  Their resources are probably very limited as well, which is why you don't see more drivers from them.

A lack of information as to specifics of what cards are supported, or if it just the chipset or a specific manufacturers model of a card that is supported, and all the more critical factors of what you can have attached to your Classic Amiga system when using OS4.1.

If you look at the 4.0 compatibility list on Acube's site then add Radeon 9200 or 9250, the SATA PCI cards based on the Silicon Image 3112, 3114, and 3512, and the ESS Solo-1 based on the 1969 chipset, you basically have it.

I have a HyperCOM clockport card in one of my A1200s and like using it, but I'm not sure if that would be usable under Classic OS4.1. Surely more information as to which 68k based drivers will work under Classic OS4.1 should be made available.

Not sure about this, never heard of any beta tester having it.  If the drivers follow the rules it should work.

I agree with your remark, and don't get me wrong I am aware a lot of work has been put in to complete Classic OS4.1, but it's a lot of money for people who bought Classic OS4.0, and got little out of it, like me, only to then be asked to part with £100 (approx) for a x.1 update.

The level of criticism there was about the shabby level of compatibility when Classic OS4.0 was initially released was, in my opinion, justified, and is at last being addressed in OS4.1, but to ask those people who paid out for a FULL/NEW version of an Amiga OS to stump up for another FULL payment for what is basically an update is not fair.

Pricing and distribution are not decided from me.  But AmigaOS 4.1 is not just a .1 update.  It's far more than that.  It's all of 4.1's new features, plus 4.1 Update 1, Update 2, and all of the fixes we've made and specific things for the Classic, like the Radeon support, the Solo-1 support, the SATA support, memory paging support, the Warp3D Permedia2 driver, and further things planned specifically for Classic in Update 3, it's not even comparable to 4.0 Classic at all.

What does "not really involved" actually mean then. Either you did a little, something more than that, OR you did nothing at all to help in the development of Classic OS4.0, but not really involved is not a definitive position, is it?

I am a beta tester since 2003 but at the time of 4.0 development I had no Classic hardware so I didn't really pay attention to Classic nor participate directly in the beta testing.  So I knew about it but at the time I was focused on my MicroA1.

Well, Elbox are still a viable company, have they been asked to supply, and offered support, to create new drivers in-line with the PCI sub-system library interface of OS4.1?

As I stated before, they assisted us to help with PCI configuration of the Mediator and they supplied the FastATA driver.  Certainly if they wanted to (or could) provide more they could/can.

I t want you to know I'm appreciative of your time, and effort, because I am really grateful for your insights into Classic OS4.1.

Thank you, and thanks for asking the questions.  I'm just trying to defend the product, obviously, since I know it so well and worked on it so long, but ultimately it is up to you if you buy it or not.

[HammerD]

So how much RAM does Classic OS4.1 NEED to run, as a minimum?

You could _probably_ get by with 64MB by making a bare bones kicklayout, no backdrop picture ...etc...but i would not want less than 96MB.

This is assuming a graphics card and a relatively modern resolution like 1024x768 or higher.

Generally with any operating system the more ram the merrier.

[HammerD]

Small Update, I heard from Carl Moppett (one of the primary testers) that the squirrelscsi.device does work under AmigaOS 4.1 Classic.  You can either use it with a mountlist to mount a CDROM or add it as a kickstart module to kicklayout.  Sorry I don't have further details as I don't own the hardware nor an A1200, but it should work.

[Nearly-Right]

I'm not sure about the Squirrel.  If the driver behaves the rules and doesn't make assumptions of hardware by peeking/poking  system structures then it could work.

Got your update from Carl Moppett that the squirrelscsi.device is OK with Classic 0S4.1, so that's a SCSI alternative for an A1200, as long as the PCMCIA port isn't being used for something else.

Well that card needs DMA so it won't work.  That is not going to change so you're just going to have to find a RTL8029 network card.  A 30 second google search brought one up for sale on ebay for $15 dollars:

I've already got one, as I needed one for Classic OS4.0 - not that it did me much good, or got much use on that OS 4.0 version.

I read your comments that the SOLO has to have the ESS 1969 chipset, but I just looked at a SOLO card on ebay, and it shows the chipset as ES1938S, so is this chipset also supported, as there is no information about only certain chipsets being viable under Classic OS4.1, just the fact that you have to have an ESS SOLO soundcard.

Please clarify the specifics of the chipset, as this seems to be a possible stumbling block.

Well I haven't looked, since there is ample supply 3 KM from my house at my local corner computer store.  Maybe it would make sense for AmigaKit or other dealers to stock that card.

Well that just shows how poorly prepared AmigaKit is for the Classic OS4.1 release.

Well Paula still works quite well - remember all the Classic Amigas have a good built-in sound chip which is supported both in 4.0 and 4.1.  If you have a good set of speakers Paula still sounds amazing.  In my machines I often use Paula still.  So a sound card is not absolutely required.

It's just as well it's not a pre-requisite, or there'd be loads of people buying Classic OS4.1 who'd not be able to use it, for the lack of a compatible soundcard.

Well my offer still stands if you need one.

Appreciated.

I would remind you that it is totally possible for anyone to write drivers.  The SDK is out there, there are several websites that help people with AmigaOS4 programming, and you can always E-mail Hyperion for support.   Hyperion can't write all the drivers.

But it's their OS, and it's in their interests to ensure there is a method for using more cards in the Mediator seeing as they are using it for part of their OS requirements. They should be pursuing this, especially as they have Elbox as one of their betatesters. They'd do well to get something worked out for us all between themselves, as they know what's required to solve this problem, and find a method of working around it. If they can't do it between themselves it's a pitiful state of affairs, and in any case should not require potential customers to have to badger a company that should already have been approached by the people writing the OS, don't you think?

Our Warp3D Permedia2 programmer is really great and he's spent ALOT of time on the driver.  he's just terribly busy at the moment so his first priority is to finish the permedia2 driver, then he can look into the blizzard PPC scsi driver.

Understood, thanks for the info.

I've been on the beta testing team since 2003, I directly asked Hyperion about adding the DMA hack and they won't.  If proper DMA was available it would work.  To my knowledge Elbox has not offered any source code to implment such a DMA hack, and it is in 68K asm anyway so not useful.

I still think Elbox, and Hyperion are the ones to resolve this situation, not customers. They both know of the problem, and it's really in both their interests to get it working, by whatever means they can, and not something for the customer to have to badger them about, as they are both in direct communication about working on the Classic OS4.1.

Since this is Elbox's hardware perhaps you should be asking them why they don't have more OS4 drivers for their hardware?  Just a thought, maybe it would help if the users demanded of Elbox more OS4.1 drivers.

See above remark

The list of PCI cards that can work with PIO is rather limited, so we basically had no choice.

If they have an ESS 1969 chip then it should work.

See my above remark, as there seem to be SOLO soundcards with different chipsets on them, so are all the chipsets on the SOLO cards supported, or only specific ones?

Well, up to you.  As I said it's not my job to sell it to you  I'm here for free technical support for registered users, really.

You've helped me with some decisions, unfortunately they have not persuaded me to take the plunge, but the information has been helpful, and may well be beneficial to others who do decide to buy Classic OS4.1.

Many thanks for your efforts, I only wish there was more of a public relationship performance from Hyperion than currently exists.

Well Hyperion is supporting proper DMA, which is something the Mediator lacks.  Elbox is free to develop OS4.1 drivers as well, as I've said.  In fact they did include a the FastATA driver with AmigaOS4.1 Classic.  Their resources are probably very limited as well, which is why you don't see more drivers from them.

I think Elbox know that true DMA is not possible from the Mediator, or they have not figured out a way to implement it, but I think it's basically nigh on impossible to achieve, which Hyperion know. The issue for me, that's upsetting, is who is the lack of DMA hurting .... the Amiga user who has a Mediator that would buy Classic OS4.1 if all the cards were allowed to work under OS4.1, as they do under OS3.9, but without this concession by Hyperion it is not going to happen. I don't think there is anything Elbox can do to implement something that is impossible to implement, without some concession by Hyperion.

I think the Boing ball is squarely in Hyperion's court, and they are keeping their hands tightly on their own Boing Ball.

If you look at the 4.0 compatibility list on Acube's site then add Radeon 9200 or 9250, the SATA PCI cards based on the Silicon Image 3112, 3114, and 3512, and the ESS Solo-1 based on the 1969 chipset, you basically have it.

And there you have it ... the websites that should be updating their websites with up-to-date information about Classic OS4.1 and have failed to update the compability list, and supported hardware list

Pricing and distribution are not decided from me.  But AmigaOS 4.1 is not just a .1 update.  It's far more than that.  It's all of 4.1's new features, plus 4.1 Update 1, Update 2, and all of the fixes we've made and specific things for the Classic, like the Radeon support, the Solo-1 support, the SATA support, memory paging support, the Warp3D Permedia2 driver, and further things planned specifically for Classic in Update 3, it's not even comparable to 4.0 Classic at all.

Yes but all those updates were designed for the ACube PPC hardware, and they have just had to be converted to Classic PPC cards, which really shouldn't have been that difficult, and I for one, feel that the cost is being driven by greed, not real hard work - that's the way it feels to me, rightly or wrongly.

Also, as I got such a bad experience from OS4.0, and I'm sure others had the same feeling, I think that Hyperion should be making it up to us all who paid for OS4.0, and got such a bad experience to somehow put it right by offering an update price, not a full version price bump.

We invested in an OS that didn't do what it set out to achieve, which is partly the reason for this release, which in many ways justifies my reasoning.

As I stated before, they assisted us to help with PCI configuration of the Mediator and they supplied the FastATA driver.  Certainly if they wanted to (or could) provide more they could/can.

As I've already said, I get the distinct impression that Elbox know there's no way to implement what Hyperion want in the way of TRUE DMA for the Mediator, and don't want to confess this to their customers who'd be disappointed to find out that's the case, and Hyperion are not about to say that either. So they're both tight lipped about the subject, so no way forward is being found, as there is no concession by Hyperion on a way to implement any form or an alternative form of DMA for the Mediator that can be used in Classic OS4.1.

Thank you, and thanks for asking the questions.  I'm just trying to defend the product, obviously, since I know it so well and worked on it so long, but ultimately it is up to you if you buy it or not.

I understand your position, but a variation on the DMA hack that is agreeable to all would be a better solution, rather than the lack of any DMA. Someone needs a kick up the backside, and it isn't you or me.

[HammerD]

I read your comments that the SOLO has to have the ESS 1969 chipset, but I just looked at a SOLO card on ebay, and it shows the chipset as ES1938S, so is this chipset also supported, as there is no information about only certain chipsets being viable under Classic OS4.1, just the fact that you have to have an ESS SOLO soundcard.

Please clarify the specifics of the chipset, as this seems to be a possible stumbling block.

I just asked the developer and he said the ESS 1938, 1946 and 1969 *should* work.  If not we probably just have to add the Device / vendor ID.  Which we can do.

The only card tested currently is the one with the 1969 chipset.  I don't have any of the other cards nor does anyone else on the beta/developer team.  But since those chips are in the same family it should work providing we have the device / vendor ID's.  So if you have such a card and it's recognized on the PCI bus, but not working with AHI use the Ranger utility to get the vendor / device ID and I'll pass the info to the developer and we'll update it.

[amigakit]

We now have 128MB SIMMs in stock for Blizzard PPC - ideal for using AmigaOS 4.1 Classic

[Franko]

We now have 128MB SIMMs in stock for Blizzard PPC - ideal for using AmigaOS 4.1 Classic

Just had quick look at them pity they're double sided, I use these already in my BPPC and plain Blizzard060 and they work fine, but I've been looking for ages for a single sided 128MB SIMM for my plain Blizzard060 as the double side ones are so thick that the only way I can keep them in place is by using a cable type shown in the picture below...

I was just wondering do you have or do you ever get in single sided 128MB SIMMS for these boards as I'd love to replace my 060 one with a SIMM that actually fits...

[amigakit]

128MB Single sided are very rare- I have one in my A1200 at home but we have been unable to source them new recently.

The new 128MB SIMMs we have in stock measure: 108 mm x 29 mm x 8 mm

They are 50ns memory at the moment as well

[Karlos]

128MB Single sided are very rare- I have one in my A1200 at home but we have been unable to source them new recently.

The new 128MB SIMMs we have in stock measure: 108 mm x 29 mm x 8 mm

They are 50ns memory at the moment as well

I already have a pair of 128MB SIMMs already in my BlizzardPPC, but I think they are 60ns. Do you have any bustest / ragemem results for the 50ns parts?

[amigakit]

Sure,  I can run this test today:  what settings do you want me to apply in the BlizzardPPC memory config?

[Karlos]

Sure,  I can run this test today:  what settings do you want me to apply in the BlizzardPPC memory config?

I would suggest that if it works reliably with all the waitstates disabled, then try that. Otherwise I'd suggest testing it set to 60ns mode and in either case, compare it against some other 60ns rated memory.

There's really no rush for this, I was just curious.