AmigaOS 4.1 Classic Available To Buy

[magnetic]

Goose

Maybe if Hyperion hadnt spread lies about Ralph S. and Morphos guys about them being crooks and stealing code ( with no proof presented ever even when called out) you users with Phase5 gear would have drivers.

[Iggy]

Hey hey! I have never had any Hardware fail on me, well except for two of my Macs. But then it´s a MorphOS problem, isn´t it?

Of course not. That's an Ismart problem with his Apple produced hardware.
MorphOS can not be blamed (and my Mac's running smoothly while running on a third party CPU).

[Iggy]

Has anyone tried to mount a 604ev on a CSPPC (in place of the standard 604e)?
Apple used these (referred to as 'Mach5' processor) in some early Mac model. They had speeds up to 400Mhz with some users overclocking to 450Mhz.
Could be a good boost for OS4.1 classic.

[Nearly-Right]

@Nearly-Right

If I were a gambling man (which I'm not, but let's pretend otherwise), I would wager you wouldn't buy OS4.1 for classic if it came with hand-tested-by-Darren-himself-and-guaranteed-compatible expansions and personally installed by Carl Moppet all at no extra charge

I would seriously consider buying it if I could trust it did all 'it was supposed to do on the tin'.

Frankly, I don't know how Hyperion have the cheek to ask Classic OS4.0 users to dip again into their bank accounts, and ask for another £100 (approx) for a virtually repeat product, never mind what's been added, as that seems to be basically what was put in for the ACube boards, etc, so just had to be modified for Classic hardware, that they got wrong the first time around, and haven't been prepared to be fair and offer an upgrade price to those users who got a very poor, barely working product, which they ditched soon after it was released.

Don't point any blame at me, the release information is flawed, they say the SOLO soundcard works, that's after it's been 'thoroughly tested' and 'developed' for about 3 years and within a week or 2 of it's release the first Amiga guinea-pig puts a question forward about a SOLO card, that reveals the card's not working as it's got a different ESS chip in it than the testers have been using.

Talk about poor betatesting, and poor release information. It's a commercial product, and should have been tested with all the chipsets those cards were released with before such a statement was made. At this moment it is 'not fit for purpose', and until it is I won't be handing over my £100 (approx).

I'll need to see some buyer's reviews of the Classic OS4.1 and how easy it is to use/install, and the benefits, if any over OS3.9, as I consider that trying to install, and get Classic OS4.0 on my A1200 BPPC was punishment enough. So specifically I'd like to see information for an A1200 BPPC system, as I've only seen any Classic OS4.1 buyer's information being installed on A4000s, and not on a similar system to mine.

First you complain there is no decent information on supported expansions. Then a compiled list is provided. Then you complain it's not "official", which fair enough, it isn't, but the guy providing it has been testing 4.1 classic since day zero, so it is as good as you would get from any of the developers.

As I don't have access to the betatesters list how am I supposed to know he's been testing the OS4.1 for Classic systems for those 3 years until you said so?

But as I've just said, the information released shows that the SOLO ESS soundcard, which was supposed to work under OS4.0, now is also shown to have problems under Classic OS4.1, as they didn't check more than one particular chipset of the SOLO cards that were released. They have only released this one (SOLO - as in ONLY) supported soundcard for use with Classic OS4.1 and they haven't done their homework/betatesting properly on just the one soundcard they are prepared to support - in 3 years of development!

Please, stop whining at me, and whine at the people who brought you yet another under-tested product that they want your money for. Let's be reasonable, if you bought such a product in the High Street you'd be back at the retailer demanding your money back in similar circumstances.

Then you complain that some of the available information is ambiguous and needs further clarification, which he goes off to try and find out about.

I left the chipset highlighted problem for a few days, for some reply to say it had been fixed/resolved, but I didn't get a reply, or see a reply to that problem in this thread, so a very good, and fair, reason to ask if it's been done, as this seems to be the only place that anyone is listening to questions, and replying to them, about the problems that are surfacing with installing and using Classic OS4.1.

No matter what the guy writes or how much he goes out of his way to answer your questions, your posts fall back onto everything being a disgrace, taking too long etc. and for all the overtures to applauding his effort, you just end up back at square one. I'm personally waiting for the Elbox intra-card DMA issue to resurface as soon as you get bored of making Darren run around answering your questions.

As you've already commented I've thanked Darren for his efforts, but releasing a commercial product after such a long development, with initial flaws like these, smacks of an undeveloped testing regime, or they'd have been better/fully aware of what will and won't work with the Classic OS4.1.

Let's be totally open and honest here. You got your fingers burnt with 4.0 classic

Yes that's true,

and there's no way you are going to buy 4.1 classic on principal.

That's not true.

I totally get it, it's not as if you are the only person that feels that way. However, for anybody else, 4.1 classic is available, supports more hardware than 4.0 classic did and a growing list of confirmed working expansions exists, officially sanctioned or not, the information is available and improving for anybody contemplating it.

If I am to seriously consider buying a product I like to be happy to part with my money, in the knowledge, and reasonably enough with confidence, it will do what I expect it to do, from what I have been told it will do, but so far Classic OS4.1 doesn't. It falls far short of those expectations, and until it meets them it will be a product I cannot trust, especially compared to OS3.9, which offers features I'd like to have in OS4.1 but as yet haven't appeared.

I am grateful for all the information that Darren has updated, and continues to release, but so far it is not enough to comvince me, and I suspect a good few others.

When the Classic OS4.1 was released there was no mention in the release information which SATA cards were supported, such as which cards/chipsets were compatible/tested. The information about the SOLO soundcards I've already commented on as that should have been tested properly, and wasn't it seems, and there is nothing less than a 'gulity as charged' acceptable in those circumstances.

You are pointing the finger at me for being critical of a repeat Classic OS4.x that again is flawed, when every effort should have been made by everyone involved in its testing to get it right this time, or don't you think Hyperion and the betatester team owe that to any intended purchaser(s)?

All this is measured against the fact that Hyperion want us to pay more than you'd pay for a Windows OS, which offers so many more features, and does actually deliver 'what it says on the tin', I'm sorry to have to say.

[lsmart]

Of course not. That's an Ismart problem with his Apple produced hardware.
MorphOS can not be blamed.

It wasn´t about blamin MorphOS for Apples crap. But Macs fail often enough to give MorphOS users second thoughts about them. Refuting the argument that PPC Amigas were likely to fail before there was even more AmigaOS 4 software - which is of course a bogus claim by itself.

EDIT: Don´t get me wrong. Apple makes fine hardware that is superior to many PC makers. "Apple crap" refers to those Macs that aren´t produced well, which - in new products and in times of high demand - Apple has repeatedly sold despite of knowing better.
A friend of mine ordered 3 recent iMacs, before he got one that was bearable enogh to keep.

[itix]

It wasn´t about blamin MorphOS for Apples crap. But Macs fail often enough to give MorphOS users second thoughts about them. Refuting the argument that PPC Amigas were likely to fail before there was even more AmigaOS 4 software - which is of course a bogus claim by itself.

I had three different Amiga 1200 in eight years. Two of them failed for no apparent reason. Myabe just bad luck but then Commodore was not best known for QA.

[JurassicCamper]

@Nearly-Right

For whats its worth I personally felt OS4.0 for classic should have had some more updates. Some beta testers were running hybrid 4.0 / 4.1 beta installs.

So in June 2009 I decided I would volenteer to update the distribution. This was before update one was released for the AmigaOne, SAM and PEG2. The very first ISO was created by myself in ~June 2009 and was a 4.0 hybrid with a few items taken from the AmigaOne 4.1 CD as a proof of concept nothing more.

In theory OS4.1 classic could have been released with an update1 baseline at roughly the same time as the other platforms, but it just wasn't mature enough and hadn't had enough of a testing cycle.

After ~2 years of working on this in our spare time and bugging developers to the point that they have probably taken us of their christmas card list it got to the point where it could be released with an update 2 baseline and utilitise the current driver base bar a few exceptions namely the drivers which use DMA.

Its not been abbandoned. The distribution iso is activly maintained now by myself, and is on par with the other platforms.
We ares still working hard raising bugs accross all the platforms and bugging the developers (excuse the pun). The classic will benefit from the developments being made to the A1, SAM, PEG2 and potentially future platforms.

Dont ask me about time scales / release dates thats for management to decided and comment on but update 3 will be on the classic.

If you have any A1200 specific questions about OS4.1 Classic, I'll do my best to answer them.

[Nearly-Right]

@Nearly-Right

For whats its worth I personally felt OS4.0 for classic should have had some more updates. Some beta testers were running hybrid 4.0 / 4.1 beta installs.

Thanks for that, nice to hear it as a developer's opinion, and I'm sure a lot of other people who bought Classic OS4.0 think the same, and maybe that's the main reason many owners of PPC boards are reluctant to purchase Classic OS4.1, as that is certainly one of mine. The upgrade option should be pursued, and Hyperion should relent on that front, as it is only fair. I wouldn't mind paying 50-60% of the current asking price, but full price is a bit extreme, IMHO.

So in June 2009 I decided I would volenteer to update the distribution. This was before update one was released for the AmigaOne, SAM and PEG2. The very first ISO was created by myself in ~June 2009 and was a 4.0 hybrid with a few items taken from the AmigaOne 4.1 CD as a proof of concept nothing more.

In theory OS4.1 classic could have been released with an update1 baseline at roughly the same time as the other platforms, but it just wasn't mature enough and hadn't had enough of a testing cycle.

After ~2 years of working on this in our spare time and bugging developers to the point that they have probably taken us of their christmas card list it got to the point where it could be released with an update 2 baseline and utilitise the current driver base bar a few exceptions namely the drivers which use DMA.

I see, but as you were offering to update the OS4.0 software, almost for free, it seems, Hyperion should have been far more accomodating, and helpful, and not in the least reluctant for your help, IMHO.

Its not been abbandoned. The distribution iso is activly maintained now by myself, and is on par with the other platforms.
We ares still working hard raising bugs accross all the platforms and bugging the developers (excuse the pun). The classic will benefit from the developments being made to the A1, SAM, PEG2 and potentially future platforms.

That is very reassuring, but is it likely that more hardware is going to be supported directly in the Mediator?

Particularly the USB side of things, as that is a major drawback if you don't have a Subway in an A1200, or another type of USB card in any of the big-box Amigas, as there is no USB2 possible for the Classic A1200 without owning the Spider card at this time, and the other main OS's have USB3 at the very least thesedays.

Is there no-one who can/will write the USB sub-system that will allow the Sirion stack to utilise a generic/specific chipset from a readily available PCI USB card in the computing marketplace to function for Classic OS4.1?

Dont ask me about time scales / release dates thats for management to decided and comment on but update 3 will be on the classic.

If you have any A1200 specific questions about OS4.1 Classic, I'll do my best to answer them.

Again, that's good news, but do you have the A1200 BPPC running OS4.1?

Have you done a clean install of it yourself onto a HDD to give some information as to the ease of the install, problems to watch out for, any hardware from the 68k/OS3.x side of things that will affect the functionality of it, or just lock-up the hardware, and won't work until it's removed, such as the Subway driver has to use the Sirion driver I believe, but any other hardware that causes known conflicts?

What 68k OS3.x programs are you aware of that will definitely run on Classic OS4.1?

Will there be Mediator PCI SCSI support under Classic OS4.1, as I use my SCSI scanner a lot, and I don't want to be having a dual boot system, with all the problems that it may cause. I am told the Squirrel SCSI can be used with Classic OS4.1, and as the Blizzard SCSI is not available under Classic OS4.1 this is a real drawback for me. Any hope you can give, such as any contact you have had, or contact you might consider to get Darren Stevens persuaded/helped to get his Mediator SCSI driver adapted to Classic OS4.1 would be a start? It's not a bootable SCSI system as yet, well not under OS3.x it isn't.

Thanks for your reply, it's been better to understand some of the background to why Classic OS4.1 has seen the light of day, and I for one am PROUD of you for going to all the trouble for all of the remaining Amiga devotees.

I have been thought of, in this thread, as being one of those people who is just slamming the development for the sake of it, but I am not. I want Classic OS4.1 to be viable for me, and for others. I know it's been done basically on a shoestring but please support the more serious side of Amiga computing, and not just the gaming side of things. I saw the Quake demo, but I'd much rather see the PageStream, ImageFX, and Scanquix side of things than games, but maybe that's just me.

[JurassicCamper]

Thanks for that, nice to hear it as a developer's opinion, and I'm sure a lot of other people who bought Classic OS4.0 think the same, and maybe that's the main reason many owners of PPC boards are reluctant to purchase Classic OS4.1, as that is certainly one of mine. The upgrade option should be pursued, and Hyperion should relent on that front, as it is only fair. I wouldn't mind paying 50-60% of the current asking price, but full price is a bit extreme, IMHO.

Firstly I'm not one of the developers but just one of the OS4 Beta testers like Darren and Karlos, since around late 2003.
As for an upgrade option thats down to Hyperion and Amigakit. Your question would be best put to Amigakit.

That is very reassuring, but is it likely that more hardware is going to be supported directly in the Mediator?

There are lots of things as an Amiga user I'd like to see supported in the Mediator.
But thats down to the development team.
I would suggest emailing Elbox to see if are willing to update some of their drivers. The AmigaOS4.1 SDK is also available for free download.

Particularly the USB side of things, as that is a major drawback if you don't have a Subway in an A1200, or another type of USB card in any of the big-box Amigas, as there is no USB2 possible for the Classic A1200 without owning the Spider card at this time, and the other main OS's have USB3 at the very least thesedays.

At this time on the A1200 USB is limited to:-

Desktop PPC A1200 (No Expansion Bus) - Subway on Clockport / Poseidon 4.4
Tower PPC A1200 (No Expansion Bus) - Subway on Clockport / Poseidon 4.4
Tower PPC A1200 Mediator - Subway on Clockport / Poseidon 4.4
Tower PPC A1200 Zorro2 - Subway on Clockport or XSURF-3CC Clockport / Poseidon 4.4
Tower PPC A1200 Zorro2 - Deneb in Zorro2 slot / Poseidon 4.4

A native Deneb driver was mentioned in the press release but this would only be benifical to PPC Amigas with Zorro slots.

Is there no-one who can/will write the USB sub-system that will allow the Sirion stack to utilise a generic/specific chipset from a readily available PCI USB card in the computing marketplace to function for Classic OS4.1?

It would require implementing Elbox's DMA Hack into the kernel as PCI EHCI cards require DMA and don't work in PIO mode AFAIK

Again, that's good news, but do you have the A1200 BPPC running OS4.1?

Yes in various config I also move my ppc to the Z2 machine when needed. See Sig :-)

Have you done a clean install of it yourself onto a HDD

Hundreds and Hundreds. I had the job of creating the installer and putting the iso together.
It was made on an A1200, no PC's were harmed during the creation of this product ;-)

to give some information as to the ease of the install, problems to watch out for, any hardware from the 68k/OS3.x side of things that will affect the functionality of it, or just lock-up the hardware, and won't work until it's removed, such as the Subway driver has to use the Sirion driver I believe, but any other hardware that causes known conflicts?

The install is a breeze.

Firstly the bootfloppy load residents a new 68K scsi.device and then mounts CDfilesystem and then boots the OS4.1 kickstart modules off the CD.
The Amiga then soft reset and is running on the PPC as with OS4.0.

If you have replaced your floppy drive with a HxC2000 floppy emulator don't worry because there is an adf of the boot floppy on the CD to use with those SDCard based emulators.

If you have removed your floppy you can boot into 3.x and start the install from there.

A lot of work has gone into the installer as it support AGA, Zorro and PCI solutions.

If your running on a mediator with a pci voodoo / Radeon the installer will open on 1024x768.

Zorro2 installer opens on a 800x600 screen for legacy z2 cards.

AGA opens on a PAL or NTSC screen depending on your base 1200.

BVision / Cvision is a special case too.
CVision / Bvision in PPC cards flashed with the GREX firmware are not autodetectable so the installer will use its fall back AGA mode.
 
Obviously AGA installer is used if there is no graphics card.

AGA also has a special theme akin to 3.1 look which vastly frees up chip RAM. This can be used on 2MB Zorro cards as well to free up some of their video RAM and is simply accessed by clicking on a icon in the amidock. You can then save this setting as default if you wish.

Anyway back to the Installer

Your a presented with a menu system that allows you to select your locale, prep your HD, install the OS or boot to WB using the CD as a LIVECD.

Once installed reboot and remove the CD and your presented with the post install that sets up some softlinks and creates the font cache for applications like timberwolf.
Also you can then change your screenmode, locale, ahi prefs etc before exiting into WB for the first time.

As for removing hardware. You can keep the subway in you don't need to disable anything as only the highway is supported by sirion on classics.
You can keep your squirelscsi in that doesn't interfere with the install.
You can keep your IDEFix-Express in that doesn't interfere either.
MK3 powerflyer is supported by a new driver supplied by Elbox
As for Z2 I have a Multiface3, DENEB, XSURF3CC, CV643D squirrel scsi and none of that  needs to be removed on that for the install.

Weve put together a large FAQ that covers all the things that came up during testing its included with CD. There is also a 28 Page Manual covering the install procedure and the FAQ is 16 Pages.
A lot of which is on the hyperion blog at hyperion-etertainment.biz

What 68k OS3.x programs are you aware of that will definitely run on Classic OS4.1?

The ones I still use off the top of my head:-

FinalWriter 5 / 97
MakeCD 3.2
TVPaint
PPaint 8
Photogenics 4.4
IBrowse 2.4
Term 4.8
Ftpd
TurboCalc
CodeAudio


But have migrated to OS4.X equivalents for most other things like pic viewers, mp3 players

Will there be Mediator PCI SCSI support under Classic OS4.1, as I use my SCSI scanner a lot, and I don't want to be having a dual boot system, with all the problems that it may cause.

Dual boot is easy you just need two partitions under the first 4GB on your harddrive
For example DH0 and DH1

OS 4.1 on DH0 and OS3.X on DH1, make them both bootable one with a higher boot priority than the other. Your Amiga will boot from the partition with the highest boot priority. Just swap the priorities around in hdtoolbox or mediatoolbox and save then reboot.
Just make sure that the 68K l:fastfilesystem and l:smartfilesystem are in the RDB on your HD. The ones from l: not the ppc ones from kickstart

I am told the Squirrel SCSI can be used with Classic OS4.1, and as the Blizzard SCSI is not
available under Classic OS4.1 this is a real drawback for me. Any hope you can give, such as any contact you have had, or contact you might consider to get Darren Stevens persuaded/helped to get his Mediator SCSI driver adapted to Classic OS4.1 would be a start? It's not a bootable SCSI system as yet, well not under OS3.x it isn't.

I have mounted a CDROM with the squirrel, but have not SCSI HD to test a HD.
I have also added the device to the kicklayout as a default kickstartmodule and the system booted ok.
With regards to the BlizzPPC.device I read that Karlos might pick this up after he's finished updating warp3D.

As for the SCSI in the mediator Amiga OS4.1 has an LSI scsi driver already but again it would require implementing Elbox's DMA hack as its DMA based.

Thanks for your reply, it's been better to understand some of the background to why Classic OS4.1 has seen the light of day, and I for one am PROUD of you for going to all the trouble for all of the remaining Amiga devotees.

No Problem. Its a team effort.

I have been thought of, in this thread, as being one of those people who is just slamming the development for the sake of it, but I am not. I want Classic OS4.1 to be viable for me, and for others. I know it's been done basically on a shoestring but please support the more serious side of Amiga computing, and not just the gaming side of things. I saw the Quake demo, but I'd much rather see the PageStream, ImageFX, and Scanquix side of things than games, but maybe that's just me.

[/Quote]

I'll get back to you on Pagestream I have V3 and V2 ImageFX. I'll also try my Epson SCSI scanner with the squirrel scsi and report back. Give me a few day. V busy at the mo.

Few 68K apps shown running here:-

http://www.amibay.com/showpost.php?p=171132&postcount=149

[Nearly-Right]

Firstly I'm not one of the developers but just one of the OS4 Beta testers like Darren and Karlos

OK, understood, but you'd obviously got the interest, that Hyperion lost after they released Classic OS4.0, and still have, which is good for us all, so big thanks to you, and the others who pursued the idea like you.

There are lots of things as an Amiga user I'd like to see supported in the Mediator. But thats down to the development team.

Is the DMA 'hack' driver possible to re-write so that it would be Classic OS4.1 legal?

I've sent messages to Elbox about the DMA pronlem with the Mediator, but had no response, but then, I know that they are on the betatesters list so surely they can be approached directly by yourselves to get them to implement it, if it is possible to do so, as it's a feature definitely worth having. I believe the code is in ASM at the moment, but I would have hoped they still know how it works, and change the code to system legal code to re-implement it, if it's possible to do so.

At this time on the A1200 USB is limited to:-

Desktop PPC A1200 (No Expansion Bus) - Subway on Clockport / Poseidon 4.4
Tower PPC A1200 Zorro2 - Deneb in Zorro2 slot / Poseidon 4.4

A native Deneb driver was mentioned in the press release but this would only be benifical to PPC Amigas with Zorro slots.

The Subway card would cause me to remove my HyperCOM parallel/serial card that I use extensively, unless a 4 way clockport add-on card is supported under Classic OS4.1, so I need to know if a 4-way clockport card has been successfully betatested during development?

I take it we are basically talking about the Micronik A1200 Zorro board for using a DENEB card in an A1200, is that correct? If so, that board does not support PCI slots so you'd lose out on PCI hardware, in particular the GFX card enhancement which I consider is a major feature of Classic OS4.1, wouldn't you agree? If so, that Zorro option, for me, would have to be avoided to allow the access for the more important PCI slots in the Mediator.

I have a Mediator TX, so do you have that model, 6 PCI slots?

It would require implementing Elbox's DMA Hack into the kernel as PCI EHCI cards require DMA and don't work in PIO mode AFAIK.

I think you are correct there, from the little I know, and have been told. The DMA 'hack' would be really beneficial as it would allow lots of other cards to be added back to the Mediator slots in due course, but as far as I know Hyperion are dead against it, unless you and the other betatesters feel it should be supported, I know I do already, but if you can also convince Hyperion of its worthiness.

Yes in various config I also move my ppc to the Z2 machine when needed. See Sig :-)

Seen it, and glad you have a few assorted setups. I offered my services for the betatesting, but was not 'honoured' with being able to help out.

Hundreds and Hundreds. I had the job of creating the installer and putting the iso together.
It was made on an A1200

I didn't know that, I got the distinct feeling that it was created on an A4000, as the A4000 seems to be more enhanced for Classic OS4.1, but that's a pleasant surprise.

The install is a breeze.

Firstly the bootfloppy load residents a new 68K scsi.device and then mounts CDfilesystem and then boots the OS4.1 kickstart modules off the CD.
The Amiga then soft reset and is running on the PPC as with OS4.0.

So is the FastATA device automatically found and used as a native scsi/ide device?

If you have replaced your floppy drive with a HxC2000 floppy emulator don't worry because there is an adf of the boot floppy on the CD to use with those SDCard based emulators.

I've not, but wasn't aware that feature existed, so thanks for that nugget.

If you have removed your floppy you can boot into 3.x and start the install from there.

A lot of work has gone into the installer as it support AGA, Zorro and PCI solutions.

If your running on a mediator with a pci voodoo / Radeon the installer will open on 1024x768.

Zorro2 installer opens on a 800x600 screen for legacy z2 cards.

AGA opens on a PAL or NTSC screen depending on your base 1200.

I wasn't aware of all that. Is all this mentioned in the OS4.1 Installation booklet?

What other info is in the booklet?

Classic OS4.0 Quick Installation guide did not give enough info to people coming into OS4.0 'cold' like I was, as kicklayouts, etc are all new, and I for one would like to know what goes where, and what affects what.

The OS4.0 Quick Installation booklet didn't give any details about the different colour error screens, nor has it since to my satisfaction, so are you in a position to give some insight into that part of the OS?

Is the 'S' directory still used, and are the kicklayout files in there, and are they editable, and what precautions are there if you mess up editing it, and can you start Classic OS4.1 with just a shell prompt, or is it far too complex to do that?

My OS4.0 got so messed up, that I never got back into it or the OS itself loaded after one successful boot into an AGA bootscreen, and then I changed it for Picasso RTG and then I just got constant reboot/error screen, and so gave up, it was all messed up, so even after 4 years of waiting for this upgrade I am still a novice with Classic OS4.x, as maybe many people who bought OS4.0 are.

BVision / Cvision is a special case too.
CVision / Bvision in PPC cards flashed with the GREX firmware are not autodetectable so the installer will use its fall back AGA mode.
 
Obviously AGA installer is used if there is no graphics card.

As for removing hardware. You can keep the subway in you don't need to disable anything as only the highway is supported by sirion on classics.
You can keep your squirelscsi in that doesn't interfere with the install.
You can keep your IDEFix-Express in that doesn't interfere either.
MK3 powerflyer is supported by a new driver supplied by Elbox

That all sounds fairly straightforward, and some it defintiely applies to my hardware.

As for Z2 I have a Multiface3, DENEB, XSURF3CC, CV643D squirrel scsi and none of that  needs to be removed on that for the install.

I see no Radeon in your system there, but is the Radeon GFX card memory still able to be added to the system RAM from the Mediator PCI library under Classic OS4.1?

Weve put together a large FAQ that covers all the things that came up during testing its included with CD. There is also a 28 Page Manual covering the install procedure and the FAQ is 16 Pages.

Are all my above questions included in that FAQ or in the Installation booklet, such as the Squirrel SCSI, tested software list, and any known incompatibilites, etc.?

I understood that the FAQ was going to be uploaded to the Hyperion Blog pages before Classic OS4.1 was released, to provide people interested in buying it to make an informed decision about upgrading, but I haven't seen anything of that nature uploaded there. Will it be uploaded there soon?

A lot of which is on the hyperion blog at hyperion-etertainment.biz

The ones I still use off the top of my head:-

FinalWriter 5 / 97
MakeCD 3.2
TVPaint
PPaint 8
Photogenics 4.4
IBrowse 2.4
Term 4.8
Ftpd
TurboCalc
CodeAudio

OK, I've asked about a few more, so I'll wait a few days for your report on whether they are compatible or not, hopefully they will be.

But have migrated to OS4.X equivalents for most other things like pic viewers, mp3 players

Only natural you would, so you can test them, and also if you're happy with Classic OS4.1. Would you say you were happy with it as it is?

What else would you like to see included, particularly that would benefit the Mediator for Classic OS4.1?

Dual boot is easy you just need two partitions under the first 4GB on your harddrive
For example DH0 and DH1

OS 4.1 on DH0 and OS3.X on DH1, make them both bootable one with a higher boot priority than the other. Your Amiga will boot from the partition with the highest boot priority. Just swap the priorities around in hdtoolbox or mediatoolbox and save then reboot.
Just make sure that the 68K l:fastfilesystem and l:smartfilesystem are in the RDB on your HD. The ones from l: not the ppc ones from kickstart

How do you put them in your RDB? Are you talking about during initialisation and formatting the drive with fastfilesystem or smartfilesystem, or some other method of putting the files in the RDB?

I have mounted a CDROM with the squirrel, but have not SCSI HD to test a HD.
I have also added the device to the kicklayout as a default kickstartmodule and the system booted ok.

I'd still like a small tutorial on the kickstart and kicklayout modules and other system boot files, and how they affect the system booting, either here in this thread or in the FAQ that should be available on the Hyperion Blog, or upload it here if that's OK.

[Nearly-Right]

With regards to the BlizzPPC.device I read that Karlos might pick this up after he's finished updating warp3D.

As for the SCSI in the mediator Amiga OS4.1 has an LSI scsi driver already but again it would require implementing Elbox's DMA hack as its DMA based.

Well that's a possible deal breaker unless the DMA 'hack' can be resolved. I need SCSI access to my scanner, and some HDD files, and SCSI DVD drives, so I think you and the team should pester Elbox more directly than I am able to do. It is obviously needed, but will they do it, or can they do it, or will they allow someone else to do it, or does the Classic OS4.1 need modifying to allow it to function? I really hope this problem can be resolved, as the Mediator offers so much more potentiial for the Classic systems if PCI hardware & drivers can be made functional under Classic OS4.1.

No Problem. Its a team effort.

You say that, and as I trust Darren, I also believe you mean it, which can't be said for all at Hyperion in my experience, I am really sorry to have to say.

I'll get back to you on Pagestream I have V3 and V2 ImageFX. I'll also try my Epson SCSI scanner with the squirrel scsi and report back. Give me a few day. V busy at the mo.

Many thanks for your efforts, and I'm feeling a lot more optimistic thanks to you and Darren so far. I haven't had much input from others, but I know Karl(OS) is also busy, so thanks for all you're doing as well Karl.

Few 68K apps shown running here:-

http://www.amibay.com/showpost.php?p=171132&postcount=149

Had a look at them, and was that Photogenics also running somewhere in there?

[JurassicCamper]

@Nearly-Right

OK small update based on some quick tests for you

I can scan on my EPSON GT7000 scsi scanner using a Hisoft PCMCIA squirrel.

Betascan

You need to add squirrelscsi.device, betascan and the epson scanner driver to JIT Blacklist in compatibility prefs. The Betascan espon scanner driver will DSI on first use, as its buggy, but you can choose to ignore the DSI error in Grim Reaper and you can start scanning.

Scanquix

The config Scanner application crashes under OS4.1 but the scanner program works as long as you add GTLayout libs to the blacklist in compatability prefs.
I Imagine if you can set it up under 3.x there is no need to run the config utility under 4.1 as the config file will be valid.

FXScan (68K/WarpOS)

Works but you get the DSI if you choose the use the Betascan drivers. Again Ignore the DSI and away you go.
I managed to make a photocopy to a HP LaserJet 1100

ImageFX2

Sucessfully opened on a AGA screen I swapped it ro CV643D 1024x768 screen and then quit OK

[Nearly-Right]

@Nearly-Right

OK small update based on some quick tests for you

I can scan on my EPSON GT7000 scsi scanner using a Hisoft PCMCIA squirrel.

OK, I have the very same scanner, and a Squirrel SCSI, so that's good, for a start

Betascan

Never really liked Betascan, as I always preferred Scanquix. I know the person who has the source files to Scanquix, and he is still a betatester for OS4.x, as far as I know.

Would access to the source help to track down why it's generating the errors, and then fix the program or the library?

I hope it wouldn't be much of a problem fixing it.

You need to add squirrelscsi.device, betascan and the epson scanner driver to JIT Blacklist in compatibility prefs. The Betascan espon scanner driver will DSI on first use, as its buggy, but you can choose to ignore the DSI error in Grim Reaper and you can start scanning.

OK, so please explain the acronym 'DSI', don't forget you've been using Classic OS4.x for sometime, wheras my Classic OS4.0 got itself banjaxed and I'm trying to come to terms with the new terms for Classic OS4.x as I go along

Scanquix

Always been good for me on OS3.x, but please go on

The config Scanner application crashes under OS4.1 but the scanner program works as long as you add GTLayout libs to the blacklist in compatability prefs.

OK, I think that's understandable, so it maybe just the GTLayout library that's where the trouble is for Classic OS4.1?

I Imagine if you can set it up under 3.x there is no need to run the config utility under 4.1 as the config file will be valid.

But if you need to change the settings again then you're going to have to use OS3.9 to be able to modify the prefs file, unless it's a simple matter of changing the logical layout of a text file or tooltype, but I'm not sure how it works, but that may be possible. So I'll have a look at the Scanquix prefs under OS3.x and see if it is.

I'd much prefer to be able to modify any of the settings of Scanquix under OS4.1 if I needed to, so getting the config/prefs sorted out to work under OS4.1 would definitely be a good thing, well for me at least.

FXScan (68K/WarpOS)

Works but you get the DSI if you choose the use the Betascan drivers. Again Ignore the DSI and away you go.
I managed to make a photocopy to a HP LaserJet 1100

I've got FXScan 3 and 4, but I prefer Scanquix for most of my scanning as the GUI, and keystrokes, etc. are just so much easier to use, in fact the whole program is better, unless you want to do OCR scanning, which you can't do with Scanquix anyway, as you'll know.

ImageFX2

Sucessfully opened on a AGA screen I swapped it ro CV643D 1024x768 screen and then quit OK

I've got ImageFX 2, and 3 and 4.5, and the versions in between each full version so that's good news, though I usually use IFX v4.0 most of the time.

One thing I am a little annoyed about with Classic OS4.1 is that there does not appear to have been any work done to support more modern printers under the OS, which really is a poor situation. Will Turboprint (any version) work under OS4.1?

Thanks for the interim update, and can't wait for more info from you on the subject, thanks.

I was looking on EAB and saw one new user for Classic OS4.1 have trouble starting his system with the Fast ATA card installed, and had to go to the trouble of fitting a 4xIDE interface to get his PPC system to boot-up. Is that situation a regular problem? I have a Fast ATA Mk3 in my machine, and the release info states that it runs as a native Classic OS4.1 driver, so why isn't it working in that person's machine, which it seems to work for them under OS3.9?

[Karlos]

OK, so please explain the acronym 'DSI'

Data Storage Interrupt. In short, an illegal access to a given address (basically an 80000003 guru).

Sometimes these are harmless read accesses (still to be indicative of serious bugs that need fixing) that can be ignored by clicking "ignore DSI errors" when the Grim Reaper pops up.

Bad applications may also generate ISI, when you get the same sort of illegal access made by an instruction fetch. This is usually non recoverable.

The biggest problem I had with the Permedia2 driver at the beginning was fixing DSI bugs that were occurring inside the W3D_LockHardware() call (accesses to NULL and other arbitrary places), since the Grim Reaper can't pop up when the display is locked and my serial port isn't reliable enough to run a debugger over. Mostly a three finger salute then pouring over a dump of the last set of messages to the debug system.

[Nearly-Right]

Data Storage Interrupt. In short, an illegal access to a given address (basically an 80000003 guru).

OK, I understand what DSI means, thanks Karl-OS

Sometimes these are harmless read accesses (still to be indicative of serious bugs that need fixing) that can be ignored by clicking "ignore DSI errors" when the Grim Reaper pops up.

Like the yellow bordered 'click left mouse to continue' warnings that often related to graphics library or other recoverable errors under 68k.

Bad applications may also generate ISI, when you get the same sort of illegal access made by an instruction fetch. This is usually non recoverable.

So what does the acronym 'ISI' stand for?

[JurassicCamper]

One thing I am a little annoyed about with Classic OS4.1 is that there does not appear to have been any work done to support more modern printers under the OS, which really is a poor situation. Will Turboprint (any version) work under OS4.1?

Turbo Print 7 works here. You will have to copy over your 3.x installation and duplicate the turboprint: assign. The 1st floppy disk has a version of unlzx that crashes.

I was looking on EAB and saw one new user for Classic OS4.1 have trouble starting his system with the Fast ATA card installed, and had to go to the trouble of fitting a 4xIDE interface to get his PPC system to boot-up. Is that situation a regular problem?

It depends on the FAST ATA Cards in use. My understanding is The MK1 FAST ATA is supported directly by scsi.device.
SCSI.Device is still 68K and needs to be to allow the CD to be booted from 3.x
Myself I don't have a Elbox IDE addaptor.
I have a DCE 4 Way Buffered IDE splitter and an IDEFIX Express, both work fine.
To be fair I only uses the native IDE now to boot the kickstart files off a CF card and my sys: partition, dvd +/-rw and other drives are all sata.
There is a article coming soon on how to go just SATA and use the onboard IDE for booting the kickstart only.

I have a Fast ATA Mk3 in my machine, and the release info states that it runs as a native Classic OS4.1 driver, so why isn't it working in that person's machine, which it seems to work for them under OS3.9?

It indeed does have a new driver and prefs program provided by Elbox.
Could be that its not a MK3.
Darren is updating his hd-zone soon with some more info about IDE controllers.