Amiga workbench

[PanterHZ]

I was just thinking to myself how silly it is that  people who create patched Workbench installs or even Emergency Install  disks cannot actually include the Workbench files and you have to run a  program to copy files from your own Workbench disks.

I seem to remember that one of the patched Workbench packages actually  did include all WB files at one point, but that the author had to remove  them after being told to do so.
But it is my impression that it's OK to include some WB files as long as  the main system files are not included, and this is the reason why  ClassicWB only requires the Workbench disk for example.

When creating my program Amiga911 Maker, I just simply decided to follow  the trend and do what others have done in the past regarding the  Workbench files. One might say that I went a step further since the  Extras & Install disks might be required for making a boot disk as  well, but this was my attempt to make the Amiga911 Maker distribution  somewhat Aminet friendly. But since the current version of my program  still includes some WB files (icons, keymaps, PAL & NTSC drivers and  the topaz font), it still meant that it couldn't be hosted on Aminet  (who are VERY strict when it comes to WB files in the uploads).

That being said, my program will look for Workbench3.0: or  Workbench3.1:, and if neither of them exists, the user will be  instructed to insert one of them. The thing is that this doesn't  necessarily have to be a Workbench floppy in DF0:, it can  actually be any drive with a volume bearing that name, and it can also  be an assign. As a matter of fact, in the process of creating A911  Maker, I had to do a lot of test copying from my WB disks to ensure  everything was working like it should. But to make things easier, I  simply copied all disks to my harddisk (by using drag & drop), and  created a small script with the following lines that I use for copy  testing:

Assign Workbench3.1: Work:WB3.1/Workbench3.1
Assign Extras3.1: Work:WB3.1/Extras3.1
Assign Install3.1: Work:WB3.1/Install3.1


For those who are using my program, there is even an easier way to do things that might work. Assuming your boot partition is called Workbench, just open a Shell and enter the following:

Assign Workbench3.1: Workbench:
 Assign Extras3.1: Workbench:
 Assign Install3.1: Workbench:

This way, you shouldn't have to insert any WB disks at all

(OK, I'll admit it, this last bit is probably a bit off-topic).

[Gulliver]

Another thing to notice:

Historically speaking, whenever you bought a real Amiga, it ALWAYS came with a set of AmigaOS floppies, maybe not the latest ones corresponding to that specific kickstart though. The point is, that Amigas were always sold with its OS, so if you have a real Amiga, you are always entitled to legally obtain its corresponding AmigaOS disk set without paying any royalties whatsoever for that specific machine. Unless, of course, you wanted the copying service, and nicely labeled floppies, from withing CBM/Escom and then you had to pay for that, but that its obvious.

Furthermore, if you see it from another perspective, whenever you acquired legit Amiga kickstart roms and or complete systems you always had the core/kernel of the AmigaOS built inside those roms. So in the end, this way, you were/are always entitled to freely and legally obtain its corresponding distribution media.

[TheGoose]

That's one of the reasons I don't get what the copyright mafia on this site rattle their gums about, they seem to conveniently forget about things like the old AF Coverdisk CDs where the stuff was released free into the wild many moons ago..

Methinks they just like a good moan even more than me...

They're stupid and obsequious.

Nobody's gonna give a rats ass. Really, it's 2011. People actually fear being personally prosecuted by "companies" cough? ; that would themselves, have trouble explaining what they own.

Amiga/WB is a big CF and I don't mean compact flash.

[PanterHZ]

Workbench was/is in kickstart. The only thing that's absolutely needed to start Workbench from a floppy is C:loadwb + a very basic startup sequence to call it.

And then you will have a Workbench that will allow you to open folders and click on icons + you can copy files by using drag & drop. And that's basically it really. When ever you try to run third-party software, you will most likely get complaints about missing libraries and stuff. For using the Shell, just type resident to get a list over the few internal commands that are at your disposal.

To get back on topic, yes, you can load Workbench straight off a floppy, using nothing but an AmigaDOS prompt as long as you're using 3.1 (can't remember how it was in the old days, but that's irrelevant) or higher. The problem is that you will lack quite a few basic utilities, but I assume that can be solved with third-party software.

It would be interesting to see how far one can get using nothing but open-source and freeware/PD. I might actually give it a try, just for the challenge.

I don't think there exists a freeware alternative to the LoadWB command, so that rules out Workbench. But there is a free command line alternative called ZShell which has the most basic CLI commands built in, it isn't 100% AmigaDOS compatible though. I seem to remember that somebody already have created a boot disk that is based on ZShell.
Anyway, you can find it here: http://aminet.net/package/util/shell/ZShell

I'm pretty sure some magazines even included "Relokick" (I think that is what is was called) which means they were effectively giving away Kickstart 1.3 too.  

Not entirely true. Relokick will only patch those parts of the kickstart that causes problems with old games (this actually means that a hybrid kickstart is used). Relokick is useless without there being a real 2.0 (or higher) kickstart present, and it can't be used directly as a kickstart ROM in (win)uae for example. But you are right, Relokick was given away for free on various magazine cover disks, and this was with the blessings from Commodore.

[Darrin]

@PanterHZ

Interesting stuff.  Thanks.

Now, here's a question for CLOANTO if they're readying this thread.  Why not update their distributions and include the following and make everyone happy (and boost their sales):

#1:  An easy way to use Amiga Explorer to transfer a version of the WB3.x environment from the PC to a real Amiga via a serial cable.

#2:  An easy way to make a boot floppy from an ADF that will allow a real Amiga to install their WB3.x environment from their CD.

#3:  HDF images of their WB3.x environment which can be used on UAE and also happen to work on FPGA type "Amigas" such as the FPGA Arcade or a 68000 friendly version for the Minimig v1.1.

If we had something like that then nobody would need pirate disks and they could use Amiga Forever on real Amigas with ease.

Come on Cloanto, can you do it and if not, why not?

[Gulliver]

I don't think there exists a freeware alternative to the LoadWB command, so that rules out Workbench. But there is a free command line alternative called ZShell which has the most basic CLI commands built in, it isn't 100% AmigaDOS compatible though. I seem to remember that somebody already have created a boot disk that is based on ZShell.
Anyway, you can find it here: http://aminet.net/package/util/shell/ZShell
.

You are wrong
This is a freeware loadwb command, you even have the sourcecode of it and it works great. http://aminet.net/util/sys/MSys-1.2.lha

BTW, I already built sometime ago a kind of "FreeWBench" with free alternatives. If interested, I will search for it in my stack of backup floppies and upload it.

[Franko]

Not entirely true. Relokick will only patch those parts of the kickstart that causes problems with old games (this actually means that a hybrid kickstart is used). Relokick is useless without there being a real 2.0 (or higher) kickstart present, and it can't be used directly as a kickstart ROM in (win)uae for example. But you are right, Relokick was given away for free on various magazine cover disks, and this was with the blessings from Commodore.

Hmm... odd I use ReloKick1.3 quite often but not with the ROM image that came with it on the CUAmiga coverdisk CD but with a real 1.3 ROM image captured using GrabKick...

Perhaps your talking about ReloKick1.4 which came with a modified 1.3 ROM Image file... :confused:

[vidarh]

Come on Cloanto, can you do it and if not, why not?

My guess would be time/money. I don't know if you've read the interview in the latest Amiga Future, but they imply that their business development is in effect subsidizing their AmigaForever development, which wouldn't exactly surprise me.

[whabang]

I don't think there exists a freeware alternative to the LoadWB command, so that rules out Workbench.

Oh, I thought the LoadWB command was ROM'ed in the later versions. Ah well, my bad!

[Bamiga2002]

Oh, I thought the LoadWB command was ROM'ed in the later versions. Ah well, my bad!

Nice idea for a development move would be to ROM it

[freqmax]

Free = AROS

[kolla]

Pointless to have LoadWB in ROM, workbench.library itself has alse been moved out from ROM since it has grown and there are much more vital stuff that needs to be there. But go ahead, you can create your own ROMs now

[AmigaHeretic]

@PanterHZ

Interesting stuff.  Thanks.

Now, here's a question for CLOANTO if they're readying this thread.  Why not update their distributions and include the following and make everyone happy (and boost their sales):

#1:  An easy way to use Amiga Explorer to transfer a version of the WB3.x environment from the PC to a real Amiga via a serial cable.



Come on Cloanto, can you do it and if not, why not?

As you may have read in other threads by now, because they do not have a license.  The ROMs and Disks on Amiga Forever are only licensed to them for the emulator and not for hardware.

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

That means all this time, people saying stop being cheap ass pirates and just buy Amiga Forever if you lost your disks and need to get new ones have been actually telling you to break the law.

Using Amiga Forever to get disks for your real Amiga is ILLEGAL.

[Darrin]

My guess would be time/money. I don't know if you've read the interview in the latest Amiga Future, but they imply that their business development is in effect subsidizing their AmigaForever development, which wouldn't exactly surprise me.

I'll send them a CD with Bloodwych's ClassicWorkbench 68000 and Classic Workbench AGA already set up on HDF files and ready to run if they want.  All they need to do is include them on their next CD and write two configuration scripts called "Minimig v1.1" for an ECS Amiga with 3.5MB of RAM and a 68000 CPU, and "FPGA Aarcde" using a 68020.  That should take care of any legal issues.

[Darrin]

As you may have read in other threads by now, because they do not have a license.  The ROMs and Disks on Amiga Forever are only licensed to them for the emulator and not for hardware.

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

That means all this time, people saying stop being cheap ass pirates and just buy Amiga Forever if you lost your disks and need to get new ones have been actually telling you to break the law.

Using Amiga Forever to get disks for your real Amiga is ILLEGAL.

OK, but they can still have workable HDFs to be used by WinUAE configurations.  It wouldn't be their fault if they worked on real Amigas too.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but WinUAE actually emulates "real Amigas".  Cloanto's early stuff could be simply copied onto a hard drive and run.  Their WB3.x buggers things up because of the way they've configured it.

[TheGoose]

Pointless to have LoadWB in ROM, workbench.library itself has alse been moved out from ROM since it has grown and there are much more vital stuff that needs to be there. But go ahead, you can create your own ROMs now

Great, why hasn't someone put a youtube video on how to burn your own ePROMS, for Amigas?

Here's a starter script:

The easiest way to do this is....

You'll need:

Things to watch for are:

Let's get started, step 1: