Amiga guilt and time distortion.

[Franko]

Various symptoms may manifest themselves, such as feeling a need to post in as many conversations as possible with any of the following:

How much commodore sucked

They didn't, they brought us the Amiga, it was down to little sh!tes like Mehdi Ali that brought about the downfall of Commodore & the Amiga not all the other folk at CBM who worked to bring us the Amiga...

How much PPC sucked

It didn't, it just arrived too late (after Commodore had folded) and was still too new and expensive to be a mass Amiga market hit...

How terrible the amiga was compared to the PC

Bollox...

How much every amiga model past the 500/1000/2000 was awful and terrible

More Bollox...

How much better Turrican 2 was on the C64

Possibly...

That x86 solves everything

Biggest load of Bollox ever...

How terrible AGA was

AGA was and still is, the best thing since sliced bread, end of story...

That the X1000 is super expensive, in case you hadn't heard

Maybe, but consider how much you spend on PCs/ Macs/ Consoles etc... then for a new small market product it aint that bad and if your too miserable to part with the cash then stop ruddy complaining about it...

[Hammer]

I'd like to discuss a phenomenom that I've observed in the past year or so.

Amiga guilt, and by relation, time distortion.


The subject is plagued by feelings of guilt about having used an amiga. This may come from insecurities of having made a "wrong choice" and a burning need to correct others misconceptions.


Various symptoms may manifest themselves, such as feeling a need to post in as many conversations as possible with any of the following:

How much commodore sucked

How much PPC sucked

How terrible the amiga was compared to the PC

How much every amiga model past the 500/1000/2000 was awful and terrible

How much better Turrican 2 was on the C64

That x86 solves everything

How terrible AGA was

That the X1000 is super expensive, in case you hadn't heard

In doing so, they hope they can somehow dispel the illusion other users had of having an interesting discussion about amiga's, by reminding them of things every person on the planet is already aware of.

This is often accompanied by Time Distortion. In this particular illness, the subject mentally transposes the PC market of today to the 80's and early 90's, imagining a world where PC's are reasonably priced and can run for hours without crashing, compared to an unexpanded 512 kb amiga 500.
All thoughts of 2000 dollar PC's running windows 3.1 while vomiting out PC speaker bleeps are banished, and the world is made of microsoft flowers and intel bunnies dancing in the meadows.

The cure for both illnesses is to go have a wank, and is thus easily accomplished. If you still suffer from either afterwards, you obviously didn't wank it enough.

1993 DOOM's release accelerated gaming PC's rise.

I still have my PC Format and Amiga Format mags e.g. I have 386DX33+SVGA box and Amiga 3000/030/25Mhz between 1992-to-1993. Sometime late in 1996, I switch to Pentium Classic 150Mhz (overclocked to 166Mhz) and sold my Amiga 3000.

[Amiga_Nut]

Hmm. So having the game run shit on your £1000+ 386 is a good thing?
So the fact that it was badly written for the 386 is good thing?
And we all have the money to then buy a new computer every 18 months?
Ever wonder why gamers have switched from the PC upgradathon to an Amiga like console lifespan of 5+ years?
The switch over to most games being VGA did not occur in the UK at least,  as early as you say it did.
Also, the game will not suddenly improve. EGA and VGA were often different boxes for disk versions.


Your exactly illustrating what's being talked about here.

I think you are illustrating a lack of understanding.

His points were 100% spot on.

PC users once they did have VGA as standard on ALL games (which he took great steps to point out) and let's face it 286s came with VGA so hardly anything unusual to own a VGA 386 at the time of A500Plus or before.

The second point was ZERO CODING was required to get an immediate improvement on those said VGA games just by buying a new machine, ie unlike us they didn't have to wait for 256 colour versions to be specifically produced.

And finally 256 colours IS enough until you get into the era of PS2/Xbox with photo-realistic fully 3D rendered worlds (Something the Amiga even to this day can not match so it's not important).

So actually all those things DID come together and conspired against the Amiga. It's just the way it goes, custom chips like unusual console components are fine at the start of the product lifecycle when you are opening a can of woop-ass on PCs but at the end of the lifecycle and beyond when you produce new custom chipsets you need the software houses to reprogram their game engines and graphics to actually use the new improved custom chips. PCs with VGA never had this problem, faster processor = faster shootemup, beatemup, scaled 2d graphics driving games as well as 3D games (with or without texture mapping).

You are the classic reason why this place is going downhill fast, too eager to post your ill-conceived response.

[Damion]

VGA mass adoption was the key. EGA Cinemaware games will forever be inferior to Amiga versions even on an running on Intel i7 920 PC today. After VGA though it was game over.

That about nails it. Word processing? You really want to do that in hi-res laced on a 1084?

I remember when I got Dune 2 for my A500. I went to a friend's house to check out the PC version, and left pretty ruffled. All the games had better sound, more colors, higher resolutions...

Then the mid/late 90's, after C= tanked... Competing "standards" (each with their own bug-ridden patina), vaporware, over-priced, unfinished, flaky products like the Delfina and CS-PPC, pre-order scams... You had to be a real gambler back then to "keep it real". :-/

I enjoy computers in general and always have, so there's no hit to my "true-amigan" status to acknowledge reality. I still use Amigas on and off in life simply because I find it relaxing and enjoy the learning curve. The PC did some things better, so what?

[Hammer]

The point PC was viable future winner for UK computer gamers was mass adoption by software houses of VGA graphics as standard. Why?

386 VGA/SBLASTER owner buys SF2....pretty slow and unplayable. 18 months later sells it and gets 486DX66 +GRAVIS etc....suddenly old unplayable game is arcade quality. Had 256 colours but is faster and sounds better automatically.

A500 owner buyss SF2...32 colour slow rubbish....3 years later he gets a 4000/030 and loads SF2....STILL rubbish (same speed, 32 colours, SFX/music). Has to pray a good AGA version is released and buy a 2nd copy if it is ever made! No reward for his £999 investment!

And that my friends is the problem, in 1990 most arcade games on PC had 256 colour graphics like Super Nintendo and their old PC games bought before upgrading to better PC automatically improved without the need for a single line of game code to improve. VGA mass adoption was the key. EGA Cinemaware games will forever be inferior to Amiga versions even on an running on Intel i7 920 PC today. After VGA though it was game over. 256 colours was enough even for 3D games like Doom or Screamer Rally  comparedto PS1 RidgeRacer/Doom.

Big problem for AGA AND Atari Falcon potential purchasers no?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTvr_Q3bkTY
AMD AM386SX processor @25MHz + Street Fighter 2 Gameplay. SF2 was playable on AMD 386SX @25Mhz. PC version SF2 was moving 256 color graphics.

To run it smooth, one would need 386DX33(with proper 32bit FSB) with fast SVGA.
PS; IBM PS2/ Model 55SX(386SX 16Mhz)'s VGA was slow.

[Amiga_Nut]

You're undermining your own point. Yes, OCS/ECS Amiga games don't suddenly get better when you play them on an AGA machine. But EGA games don't get better on a VGA box, either. The only real difference is that AGA came too late in the game and didn't offer enough improvement, not that VGA was some kind of instant market-conqueror.

lol some people really don't read too well or remember how abundant VGA was, even 286 Amstrad machines had VGA AS STANDARD....vs Amiga A500/2000 era in late 80s.

The problem was not that people had to upgrade to VGA from EGA because by the time the home PC was even remotely acceptable since the Amstrad PC1640 CGA/EGA days, but games were not always produced with a VGA option. Like the guy said this happened around 1990/91 (have a look on sites like HOTU) and AFTER this happened and everyone already had VGA games that may have been unplayable on your 386SX-16 VGA suddenly became arcade quality on your 486DX33, so that was the turning point and a spot on observation.

The point is PC owners automatically usually got better games with each faster machine purchased, therefore the quality of their back catalogue of games often improved over time based on improving PC specs, and most importantly nobody had to wait for some hacksaw coding job of an update like most of the AGA 'enhanced' drivel we got in 93/94 from the usual culprits to be honest.

SF2 is a classic example, add to that the fact that ALL PC arcade games were hard disk installable and maybe 2% of Amiga action/arcade games and you have yet another nail in the coffin (this time thanks to ignorant and blinkered software houses producing 4 disk games etc).

AGA in A4000 release and A1200 first Xmas was pretty much still able to hold it's own against VGA on an ISA BUS @ 8mhz. Like Digiman says it was only viable for 2-3 years not like when we had EHB and HAM6 in 1986 vs PC CGA 4 colour puke that they could just keep using for 7 or 8 years. Nothing wrong with AGA really except 16bit sound was missing in.

Man I wish people who actually know about 80s and 90s PC technology would comment on other people's knowledgeable posts rather than all this thread pollution.

As for Win95, personally it's OK, but to be quite frank it did more harm to Apple and their  single tasking Mac OS than Amiga. Overnight, the premium you paid for an Apple Mac suddenly looked a bit....well useless

[Franko]

Every time someone mentions about how wonderful VGA was, I have to laugh and think "after all these years the poor sod still doesn't get it"...

These folk either have forgotten or didn't know in the first place why the Amiga used the video standards it did for a very simple reason, It was the aim of the Amiga to use video modes that would run on the TV in the corner of your living room or any other TV in your house, plain and simple...

No need to go out and buy a monitor cos you couldn't run VGA modes on your TV, just hook your Amiga up to any TV in your home and you were up and running...

Seems some folk either missed that point or deliberately ignore it...

[Khephren]

You are the classic reason why this place is going downhill fast, too eager to post your ill-conceived response.

hmm, iv'e been on here since the 90's, so i can't be making it go downhill that fast.
my post history shows me helping people out, welcoming new starters, and giving away hardware.  i'll go through yours and get back to you. I expect it will have giant waffling paragraphs of shite. just like the ones you just posted.

[nicholas]

hmm, iv'e been on here since the 90's, so i can't be making it go downhill that fast.
my post history shows me helping people out, welcoming new starters, and giving away hardware.  i'll go through yours and get back to you. I expect it will have giant waffling paragraphs of shite. just like the ones you just posted.

+1

Too many new users who haven't even touched an Amiga since the 90's, let alone contributed anything useful to the community are the reason this place is going downhill recently.

[tasmanian guy]

For me personally I hated to see the slow death of Amiga.  When Commodore folded, I was still holding out hope.
 
I remember seeing some of the 386 VGA flight sim games and comparing them to the Amiga versions.  The multicoloured sky and how the ground changed colour into the distance, just made the game so realistic!
 
Games like TFX, A10 Tank Killer, F15 Strike Eagle 2, F117A Stealth Fighter, Jef Fighter 2 (which was done by the same guy that did F18 Interceptor).
 
Having said that I missed the creativity software of the Amiga.  I missed Vista (scenery generator), Deluxe Paint, Amos, Octamed, etc.
 
It was C64 and then the Amiga that really got me interested in computers and has lead to my career path.  It is a shame that the Amiga did not succeed in the commercial world, but there is still a place in the world for the Amiga, even if it is here at Amiga.org just remembering the glory years of the Amiga!

[Franko]

+1

Too many new users who haven't even touched an Amiga since the 90's, let alone contributed anything useful to the community are the reason this place is going downhill recently.

-1

Gotta disagree with that point of view... a lot of "new users" or folk who are finding the Amiga once again post quite a lot of interesting questions looking for help setting up their Amigas, which when I can, am only too glad to help out with...

It's mostly "old members" who post the "downhill" stuff about PCs, iPhones etc... and use the place as some sort of social club that detract from the real Amiga questions & topics new users have...

[Khephren]

-1

Gotta disagree with that point of view... a lot of "new users" or folk who are finding the Amiga once again post quite a lot of interesting questions looking for help setting up their Amigas, which when I can, am only too glad to help out with...

It's mostly "old members" who post the "downhill" stuff about PCs, iPhones etc... and use the place as some sort of social club that detract from the real Amiga questions & topics new users have...

Well, I stay here because there is always a good influx of interesting new people, but that's added to the older crowd, there's good and bad amongst both. I'll judge on what people say, not how long they have been on here.

I actually enjoy the odd 'back in the day' discussion. Until someone personally insults my contribution to the site that is

[commodorejohn]

PC users once they did have VGA as standard on ALL games (which he took great steps to point out) and let's face it 286s came with VGA so hardly anything unusual to own a VGA 386 at the time of A500Plus or before.

The second point was ZERO CODING was required to get an immediate improvement on those said VGA games just by buying a new machine, ie unlike us they didn't have to wait for 256 colour versions to be specifically produced.

But it's a false comparison. He compared games choked by CPU weakness to games choked by chipset weakness. That's apples and oranges. If you want to compare chipset upgrades, look at the difference between lush VGA stuff and the "barely improved Tandy" stuff that dominated the EGA market. Castlevania for DOS is always going to look wonky, even if you put it on a VGA box, just like OCS Street Fighter is always going to look wonky, even on an AGA machine. CPU horsepower has nothing to do with either.

Now, it is true that VGA mass adoption was quicker and more complete than the adoption of AGA, and it's probably also true that that quick and easy overtaking of the Amiga graphics-wise was a significant contributor to its demise. I'm just saying that the initial comparison was false, is all.

[haywirepc]

I didn't want to switch to a pc but I was forced to. I was a musician and I needed 16 bit sound, and more channels.

A 100mhz pentium running with an sb16 let me do 32 channels. This was too attractive at the price to stay amiga. Besides this, yes vga games
like wing commander, x wing and others sealed the deal for me.
 
I could have bought an amiga 3000 at the time instead. I could not justify
the expense difference in comparing the capabilities, speed, hard drive space,ram and so on.
 
This amiga trend seems to continue today, in that people hocking amiga hardware and software want you to pay too high a price for too little power and capability.
 
My phone's browser is better than os4's, and my phone also has more computing power than most os4 systems.
 
I love amiga but I have needs that these pricey amiga systems can't fill.
 
Until then, I love playing with my emulated os 3.x amiga on my linux box,
I also love aros, and hope to see it improve so much that it can be your every day computer, needs smp, better browsing, and more native apps.
 
Steven

[Cool_amigaN]

As for gaming, Amiga was left behind (faster than the technological graphics' gap implied) simply because it lacked HDs and CDs. Period. Games were beginning to require more space; included digital audio, Full Motion Videos, more detailed graphics (bigger textures), installation on HD for faster loading times. The combo of 1200 was simply suicidal; no CD nor HD presented, when by 1993 Psygnosis was selling PC Games' conversions in CDs already. One can think that Commodore never really looked at the PC competition offer and didn't even made a brief chat with companies actually developing for Amiga for what they should include/develop/upgrade in future Amigas.

[touringsedan]

For me growing up C64/Amiga, PC's were the devil and with the death of Commodore (*sigh*) and everyone playing Warcraft, Rise of the Triads, etc. in lan parties with IPX/SPX networks the PC was too tempting to avoid. Soon many exciting things would evolve RAPIDLY on the PC, games got better, productivity got better, faster and faster.
Remember when Windows 95 was released and there were huge lines wrapping around stores to get if first? Of course Apple has created that culture in their products now.
If Commodore had survived with REAL leadership it would be a sight to see and what could have evolved over 17+ years!

I wouldn't be surprised if the modern amiga was just like the modern Apple system, or basically another Intel based computer.