X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production

[Iggy]

What you have described is the typical,everyday modern PC,except its specs are way slower and has a xmos chip tacked on thats of no practical use currently.. OH! and costs what,nearly 4X as much..LOL

No, what AmigaNG was describing is the fastest PPC based system designed to run AmigaOS4. At almost twice the speed of the SAM460 with two X16 PCIe slots. Personally I'd relegate the XMOS component to a hobbyist curiousity, but the rest  of the system is a solid improvement over current AOS4 hardware and advances NG systems to a new level of performance.

[mechy]

Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!

The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.

Mech

I'd like to address the pessimism that has persistently haunted this thread. The X1000 will be built. The components have already been purchased so it would be foolish not to finish the project.
Also, you all keep acting like A-eon is Trevor Dickinson's project alone. He has two partner (one an old friend of his the other Ben Hermans of Hyperion).
There will only be a limited number of X1000s. PA6T processor are now a rare commodity. So future models will probably be based on other PPCs (one possibility being the P5 processors from Freescale).

You all pontificate on missed target dates and BS about popcorn, but you fail to understand that these guys are serious. They wouldn't have invested their money in the components, and the design, if they weren't.
Don't like the system? Aren't going to buy one? Fine. There won't be that many produced and I'm sure they'll have no problem selling every one.

[jorkany]

Totally agree with you in all respects! What seat will you be campaigning for?

Well, on the beaches here there's a limit to bikini sizes and how much they can cover. Not so much an office, but I'm pretty sure there must be an elected official who does the measurements...

[Iggy]

Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!

The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.

Mech

Not that I've got anything against the PegII, but I'll take my Powermac over one.
Plus the X1000 operates at 2Ghz. That's about twice rthe speed of most common Pegasos G4s.
Then there's the fact that this is the first dual core PPC used in an AOS system and the fact that the board uses PCIe expansion slots.
Considerably more than a Peg II IMO.

[Kronos]

@iggy


A 68k based "AT" might have had some impact in specialized fields, but overally it would've been a complete failure (not compatible with any SW, slower than a 80286 without offering any real benefits).

Sure in the end the intregrated GFX and sound helped the demise of the Amiga but in 1985-90 it was exactly what set it apart from the competion.

Comparing the X1000 to the Peg2 on bare specs is more than a bit unfair when you ignore the fact that there are 6 years (and counting) between the release-dates. Back than a G4 at 1GHz was closer to mainstream specs than that P6T is today. Add the pricing to the equation and it should become crystal clear that the Peg2 was a much more sensible offer back than the the X1000 will be in 2011(?).

Dual-Core under OS4 is just as interesting as dual-core on my ARESOne under AROS (read it's pointless) except that the later will eat the former for lunch if we get down to raw performance.

The number of P6Ts might be limited but so is the number of people prepared to spend 2000Euro (or more) for an obscure piece of HW based on a CPU moothballed 5 years ago.

[Iggy]

Mothballed? No the PA6T was discontinued before it had a chance to find much of a market.
And while I understand your bias (as an ARESOne owner) AROS still hasn't reached a point in its development where I feel comfortable using it.
If I had the hardware you have I'd be running Ubuntu and using UAE to run Amiga software.
I intend to keep using PPC hardware till the MorphOS team migrates elsewhere.
And I like and am impressed with what A-eon is creating.
Comparisons to X86 systems are pointless. Only comparisons to other AOS systems really matter, and in that regard this system is quite nice.

[persia]

And in some ways the PA6T lives on in spirit in their A5 chip that powers the iPad 2 and (likely) the iPhone 5.

[amigadave]

Obviously we can only know what aeon lets us know,and i have read their site.thats how i came to the conclusion this is nothing special.the obscure xorro bus is useless unless there are drivers to drive some unknown hardware plugged in...which doesn't exhist.

you can call it your new blender if you like.it doesn't make it amiga.But im sure you'll get yer boing stickers and such out to plaster all over the generic pc tower its in.the A1000 was something that had not been seen or thought of,it was custom built from scratch.the 3 main custom chips were built from scratch.

The original amiga 1000 had some custom chips you may of heard of,denise,agnus,paula etc.. ever heard of these?. so no its not valid.the x1000 is off the shelf parts.it bring nothing new to the field currently other than a dual core processor and some xmos stuff tacked on.

so that leaves me wondering if you've ever touched a real amiga let alone know what it is. lol

mech

I don't totally disagree with everything you say, but you don't give the X1000 any credit for the differences it will have.  No, it is not comparable to the A1000 when it was first released, but I doubt any system in the future will ever match what the A1000 accomplished.  I also agree that the X1000 has been over hyped by some people.  I don't buy into all the claims that have been made, but I do admit that the X1000 will be unique in the world of personal computers with the features they are including on the Nemo motherboard.  Yes, you are right that the XMOS chip and Xorro slots have no implementation (yet), but that is part of the excitement and difference this board brings to hobby computing, the chance to invent something new, not thought of before, or at least not created before on any hobby computer.  It is a gimmick and might never bear any fruit, but there is a chance that someone might get creative and lucky and come up with something just as interesting and groundbreaking as the NewTek Video Toaster was, when it was first released.  No one can tell what will be created in the future with this unique motherboard design and odd, technically crippled OS from the past.  I don't have any hopes that the X1000 is going to be a commercial success, or that it will bring the Amiga out of obscurity, back into the main stream of computing, but I am curious to see what happens over the next 2 to 3 years with it and hope for the best for Trevor.  If I had unlimited funds, I would even buy an X1000 for myself, just because it will be the fastest and best way to run AmigaOS4.x and due to the scarcity of the PA6T, will likely be a very limited edition product in the long and twisted history of the Amiga.

I am a MorphOS2.x user and fan, but that does not stop me from admiring what Trevor set out to do (I feel sorry for him because of the difficulties and skeptics he has to deal with to complete this project, plus I don't trust his partner, Mr. Hermanns, and I don't think he was told the truth at the beginning of the project, before he started spending thousands of dollars on it).

Stock up on the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show, because the X1000 is going to be full of surprises (and probably disappointments) along it's long journey from inception to final product.

[Kronos]

Mothballed? No the PA6T was discontinued before it had a chance to find much of a market.

Dunno bout you, but I think you just perfectly described what is meant by the term "mothballed".

And while I understand your bias (as an ARESOne owner)

*lol* .........

[the_leander]

Mothballed? No the PA6T was discontinued before it had a chance to find much of a market.

So yeah, mothballed:

—Idiom
4.
in mothballs, a.
in disuse or in storage, especially with reference to standby equipment.
b.
(of ideas) dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation.

Either way, the fact that they're using a discontinued chip rather than one currently in production kinda makes a joke re claims of this taking the Amiga forward in any way, it's the computing equivalent of neanderthal man or betamax.

Sure, a G4 of some description might not have had the appeal of some new supah seekrit uber chip, but it'd have got the job done, not to mention offered a fairly reasonable price/performance margin. But that's a whole other discusion.

Don't get me wrong, in terms of the ultimate in rare equipment bragging rights the X1000 will certainly go way up the ranks. But I can't help but wonder where that will leave the community as a whole. The Sam 460 seems to have been completely ignored in this and that machine, despite it's inherent limitations at least offered a semi sane price tag.

[Iggy]

So yeah, mothballed:

—Idiom
4.
in mothballs, a.
in disuse or in storage, especially with reference to standby equipment.
b.
(of ideas) dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation.

Apple purchased PA-Semi in order to use their design expertise. They had no use for a PPC processor (even one that probably had been designed with Apple in mind). After all, Apple has switched to X86 processors.

Mothballed, infers stored for future use. The PA6T was discontinued with a limited supply set aside for existing customers.

The decision to discontinue production has nothing to due with the PA6T's value, rather its is due to the fact that Apple has no desire to manufacture processors for other companies - period.

Except for IBMs G5 level processors, and their Power7 series, the PA6T still remains one of the most powerful PPC processors made.

As to "dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation", apparently it is about to be used for one final product. And I like it (and would buy one if I could).

[the_leander]

Apple purchased PA-Semi in order to use their design expertise. They had no use for a PPC processor (even one that probably had been designed with Apple in mind). After all, Apple has switched to X86 processors.

We're all well aware of the PA-Semi purchase, thanks.

Mothballed, infers stored for future use. The PA6T was discontinued with a limited supply set aside for existing customers.

Again, not helping your case here, no matter how you try to define the term.

As to "dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation", apparently it is about to be used for one final product. And I like it (and would buy one if I could).

It has been dismissed by the people responsible for it's production. That a handful have been bought up from some warehouse some place and put to use in something Apple have no interest in is irrelevant. Even if you personally find it interesting.

[Daedalus]

Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!

And I think pretty much everyone here is well aware of the facts. I doubt anyone here's gonna be fooled into thinking this is a quad-core / SLI / DDR3 beater, and shell out for it on that basis, and most likely is well aware of how much cheaper a PC of that standard would be. So why go on and on about it? Do you really feel the need to say it again, just in case someone down the back there didn't hear you?

The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.

In this day and age it's much more difficult to be as revolutionary as the A1000 was. Complete revolution is even beyond development giants like Apple and IBM, and at this stage it's more evolution. And in those terms it's a huge step in OS 4 terms. What's wrong with using standard connectors like PCI-e? Did everyone not go nuts trying to bodge PCI slots onto their Amigas a few years back, just to be able to use standard cards? Look, it's been developed specifically for OS4 because there was no other way OS4 was going to progress otherwise. It's bloody expensive, but we're well aware of it. I won't be buying one at that price unless I inherit a heap of cash or win the lottery. I know it's overpriced and underpowered. But I don't go on and on about it as if anyone who was interested in it was mental, or as if I couldn't possibly believe how *anyone* would be interested just because I'm not buying one. I think it's a fantastic bit of work from a small team for a small market.

[klx300r]

What you have described is the typical,everyday modern PC,except its specs are way slower and has a xmos chip tacked on thats of no practical use currently.. OH! and costs what,nearly 4X as much..LOL

ok fine, now that you've stated your opinion many times can you please stop trolling in this thread:smack:

[the_leander]

If you feel he's trolling, report it.

[Boudicca]

I'm struggling to see why anyone is "Dissin" the X1000, compare against this, compare against that, as much as anyone likes, but whatever a PC super spec'ed or not, it is worth $1 at a car boot or ebay in less than 10 years time. The X1000 even if it is used will be worth 5 or more times the purchase price in the same period.

Anyone flogging any Amiga compatible device for peanuts at the moment, must get a grip and put it back in the cupboard its only going to appreciate not depreciate. Amiga has already been to the $1 mark and has been climbing ever since.

I really cannot see how its an equal comparison. One is a commodity the other is a speciality, commodities never have any value beyond their purchase price.

The Amiga X1000 is infinitely more collectable unlike a CUSA based pc which is worth only the case.