My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[redfox]

@redrumloa

Thanks for your report Red.  That Commodore 64x looks quite nice.

I'll take the wait and see what transpires route, rather than wade into the debate.

Thanks,
redfox

[Dandy]

I think what he means is that from a commercial point of view X1000 isn't viable.  

O.K. - but didn't Trevor Dickinson state from the very beginning that the A1 X1k is not targetted at the "common user", but at developers and geeks?

From my POV it doesn't make sense to blame him for something that he clearly stated from the beginning...

The fan base is there, but it's only at best a thousand or two and at worst in the hundreds.
There isn't enough profit there to keep a company going in the long run.

AFAIR, Trevor said if he sold 250 units or so he'd break even. So selling "a thousand or two" would mean quite a good profit for him, wouldn't you agree?
I don't know his plans regarding keeping his "company going in the long run".

He wasn't commenting on the computer but rather on the economics of making the computer.

Maybe this is due to him looking at it from a completely different perspective.

He wants to supply the masses (as far as I understood), while Trev just wants to supply the devs and geeks to lay a foundation for further development of the platform.

So they are aiming at completely different target groups, I'd say...

And if Barry realy is a prooven business man as it was repeatedly stated here, he should be aware of that.
But in this case I don't understand why he states things that can be interpreted by those interested in the A1 X1k as if the whole project is just vapourware/a hoax.
The only motivation for that that comes to my mind is that he's intentionally spreading F.U.D. in order to torpedo the A1 X1k project.
Correct me, if you think I'm wrong...

[brownb2]

@ brownb2

:lol:

(PS:You look a lot better now in your new avatar... :lol:)

Cheers - my smug sh*t eating grin on the previous photo started irritating me, but oddly this thread didn't!

[kolla]

The keyboard has to be custom designed for the retro case.

The layout it totally wrong - how utterely pointless!
There goes my last hope for CUSA to actually do something usefull

[Dandy]

...your nonsense...
...your who developed Amiga stupidity...
...your comments were so stupid and nitpicky...

First of all: Thank you for your kind words.
It's always refreshing to receive namecalling from someone running out of arguments...

...
OS4 on an amiga 4000 ppc runs on the ppc, amigas are 68k machines, commodore never released a ppc machine, so os4 runs on a non-commodore, non-amiga, component slapped onto the side of your cpu.

This doesn't remotedly answer my question, which was "Hmmmm - so you're saying my Amiga 4000 with 68060 cpu and PPC604e cpu isn't real?", IIRC.

I'm very well aware that OS 4.x runs on the PPC, once it was started by the 68k cpu and that commodore never released a ppc machine. I also know that the CyberstormPPC is a "non-commodore" product from Phase5 for Amigas 3k/4k. Or can you name annother computer brand that could use them?

My Amiga 4000 was manufactured by Commodore and expanded by me with an add-on by Phase5 for Amiga computers.

Are you trying to imply that my A4k isn't an Amiga any longer, because I expanded it with the CSPPC?

If so - and if I follow this logic - then my good old Ford Sierra XR4i wasn't any longer a Ford Sierra XR4i, just because I put better looking 3rd party rims and Recaro seats on it, as well as an Pioneer high end stereo equipment and an Bosch ultra sonic alarm system?

If I ran Windows on a bridgeboard in an Amiga 3000 does that mean that Amiga's run Windows?

As long as they are expanded with an bridgeboard, of course - yes.

I already did that back in 1989 on my A500 - initially with PCtask, later I expanded it with the Vortex ATonce286 classic. And the A500 still was an A500 - but an expanded one.

As for your who developed Amiga stupidity, no Amiga did not originate with Commodore, but 99 percent of the development,

According to my dictionary the "development" was 100% done by "Amiga Corporation", aka "Hi-Toro".
All subsequent "advancements" or "enhancements" have been done by Commodore until they went belly up in 1994.

including ALL of the actual computer models

Not sure what you mean with "actual computer models", as Commodore produced its last Amiga models back in 1994.
I would regard the SAM or the A1 X1k (if already was available) as "actual computer models".

and ALL of the OS releases[ -] except for 3.5,[ ]3.9, Aros, MOS, and OS4 [- ]were by Commodore.

(content in square brackets added by me for better readability)

I fully agree with you here.

I know the history of Amiga as well as you, but I'm not quite as pedantic.

I'm sorry if I came across as "pedantic" - maybe I have some semantic problems due to not being a native English speaker.

So it came that I had to use a dictionary sometimes and - as I stated above - my dictonary revealed that there is a difference in meanings between "development" and "advancement or enhancement".

I just tried to word myself as precise as possible to avoid being misunderstood.
If that qualifies me as being "pedantic" then be it...

The rest of your comments were so stupid and nitpicky I won't even comment on them.

Again:
Thank you for your kind words.
It's always refreshing to receive namecalling from someone running out of arguments...

EDIT:
Fixed quoting

[Dandy]

I guess that depends on whether Barry:

1) Doesn't give a crap about the existing Amiga community(s) and has his eye on selling to a much larger audience

or

2) Is so clued into the Amiga community and specifically the OS4 scene that he is even now conniving to steal away the dozen or so people who plan to buy an X1000.

Now, I don't have much of a business background but I do know how to make money, and I suspect Barry does too. Which is more profitable do you think, 1 or 2?

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective - please see my reply #375 to Persia.

[gertsy]

nothing wrong with novelty PC's, it's the way it's been gone about.
Amiga Inc lost the amigaOS4 court case, calling the new skinned linux OS5 is just underhand, and a clear attempt at obfuscation. They have no OS4 to be an upgrade from.
Same thing for the name of the machine, it's named to mislead, and to be confused with the new X1000 from A-eon.
There is room for this kit. It looks nice, if it's got a commodore and amiga logo, and looks a bit like workbench-that's cool.

they could have went about it in a less underhanded manner, and let it stand on it's own merits.

When did Amiga Inc lose the amigaOS4 court case?
Agree 100% on the OS5 bit. I think if we ignore that though it will go away.  If it hasn't already.

[gertsy]

I'm late to this party, mostly because I don't care enough about the religious wars to get involved again. But I have read through the thread now and I think only Kronos really raises any interesting questions.

Here's my tuppence worth... This guy, Barry, seems like a reasonable bloke with a bit of cash and bordom on his side. He doesn't know much about the retro commodore scene but thinks there might be a Market for some vintage styled equipment. He sees it as a fun little hobby to keep him busy and he clearly has motivation to make a product.
IMHO I think all the whingers here should just shut up and let him do something, you never know, he might make an intereting product... If he fails to deliver then, definitely give him crap for it...

As for the religious crap about "true Amiga", that got real old about 6 years ago. No current project has "direct lineage" with the old Commodore Amiga, and in fact all the current projects have shared code/ideas to the point that they are more closely relatedto each other than to the "One true Amiga"(tm)...

Take care!

Ohh no Bloodline is thinking the same as me.. Or am I thinking the same as him?  
Pretend OS5 or specialised, potentially "equally useful" OS4.1.
I guess the bright side you posted with no mention of that M word.

Reality check....
Would the real amiga OS please step out from behind 3.9 and do some HD video encoding for me........Okay then how about running some HD Streaming video?......Burn a blue ray video ?.....
There are crickets chirping on the open ground where once stood a stadium at which there was once a race.

[number6]

When did Amiga Inc lose the amigaOS4 court case?

They didn't.
He's referring to the settlement which gave Hyperion the right to continue to develop Amiga OS, including, but not limited TO 4.

#6

[jorkany]

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective - please see my reply #375 to Persia.

Okay, let's examine your post #375.

O.K. - but didn't Trevor Dickinson state from the very beginning that the A1 X1k is not targetted at the "common user", but at developers and geeks?...AFAIR, Trevor said if he sold 250 units or so he'd break even. So selling "a thousand or two" would mean quite a good profit for him, wouldn't you agree?

This doesn't differ from what I said in my post #367: the market for the X1000 is so minuscule that there isn't any profit to be had there. So no reason for Barry to try to steal away the dozen or so people who might buy an X1000.

Maybe this is due to him looking at it from a completely different perspective.

He wants to supply the masses (as far as I understood), while Trev just wants to supply the devs and geeks to lay a foundation for further development of the platform.

So they are aiming at completely different target groups, I'd say...

Once again, this is the same thing I said in post #367. Barry doesn't care about the X1000, or the potential loss of a dozen or so customers. Hell, he doesn't even seem to care about the Amiga community in general! He's more interested in the millions of people who aren't even an active part of the Amiga communities today who still remember the Commodore/Amiga name.

And if Barry realy is a prooven business man as it was repeatedly stated here, he should be aware of that.
But in this case I don't understand why he states things that can be interpreted by those interested in the A1 X1k as if the whole project is just vapourware/a hoax.

It's not Barry's place to try to protect the feelings of people interested in the X1000 project. According to Redrumola, all he said was he contacted A-eon/Hyperion about working with them, and decided that due to the unknown completion of the X1000 project that he would prefer to proceed without them. If that upsets people who thought the project was on schedule and rockin', that isn't Barry's fault.

The only motivation for that that comes to my mind is that he's intentionally spreading F.U.D. in order to torpedo the A1 X1k project.
Correct me, if you think I'm wrong...

Okay, you're wrong.

Think about what's doing more damage to the X1000 project - some unknown appearing and planning to sell rebadged PCs in custom enclosures as C64s and later Amigas; or the delays and missed announced release dates on behalf of A-eon? Or do you think everything is going smoothly with the X1000? It'll be cool when those betatesters start getting their boards, right?

[jorkany]

They didn't.
He's referring to the settlement which gave Hyperion the right to continue to develop Amiga OS, including, but not limited TO 4.

#6

Then people need to stop referring to it as a "loss" or a "win" and get with the reality.

[Dandy]

Okay, let's examine your post #375.
...
According to Redrumola, all he said was he contacted A-eon/Hyperion about working with them, and decided that due to the unknown completion of the X1000 project that he would prefer to proceed without them.
...

I was referring to this statement Red made on behalf of Barry:
... The X1000/OS4 project ... is not a viable option because there is no product near completion and doesn't look like it will be any time soon. ...

I read it that way, that the X1000/OS4 project isn't "near completion and doesn't look like it will be any time soon" - but I just noticed that he could also have meant it this way: It "doesn't look like it will be any time soon" "a viable option ".

In case it was meant the latter way, I initially misunderstood him.
The way I read it initially seemed to imply he found out something being in strong contradiction to what AEon stated publically so far regarding the state of the A1 X1k project.

Had he worded it this way ... The X1000/OS4 project ... is not a viable option and doesn't look like it will be any time soon because there is no product near completion. ...
I wouldn't have read it the other way initially.

I assumed that a prooven businessman choses his words carefully when talking about his business to avoid such misinterpretations - and so I suspected him to have it intentionally worded this way to create uncertainty and confusion - but that's possibly just me (because not being a native English speaker)...

[jorkany]

I was referring to this statement Red made on behalf of Barry:
... The X1000/OS4 project ... is not a viable option because there is no product near completion and doesn't look like it will be any time soon. ...

I read it that way, that the X1000/OS4 project isn't "near completion and doesn't look like it will be any time soon" - but I just noticed that he could also have meant it this way: It "doesn't look like it will be any time soon" "a viable option ".

In case it was meant the latter way, I initially misunderstood him.
The way I read it initially seemed to imply he found out something being in strong contradiction to what AEon stated publically so far regarding the state of the A1 X1k project.

Had he worded it this way ... The X1000/OS4 project ... is not a viable option and doesn't look like it will be any time soon because there is no product near completion. ...
I wouldn't have read it the other way initially.

I assumed that a prooven businessman choses his words carefully when talking about his business to avoid such misinterpretations - and so I suspected him to have it intentionally worded this way to create uncertainty and confusion - but that's possibly just me (because not being a native English speaker)...

I see where you're coming from now, but I think you're reading too much into it. We don't have Barry's verbatim statement, just Redrumola's recollection of it (which personally I don't doubt). Apparently Barry thought there was some viability to a collaboration or he wouldn't have contacted A-eon/Hyperion. It's not difficult to believe that CUSA's schedule and A-eon's schedule don't intersect.

Besides, what CUSA product would these people waiting on the X1000 jump ship to? The CUSA waiting line?

I guess time will tell if CUSA is really that desperate for customers, but if past history is any indication Barry doesn't care about the existing Amiga communities. Either he's full of crap all around, or he believes the market is bigger than just the few people in the community.

[bloodline]

@Dandy

I think this is a simple misunderstanding on your part. I want to in no way criticise your English skills (I struggle enough with German, though I don't give up my coloquitur often does), but as a native English speaker I found no hint of negativity towards the x1000 only that it wasn't suitable for the C=USA needs.

[takemehomegrandma]

When did Amiga Inc lose the amigaOS4 court case?

They didn't, some people are just confused (some people even believes Hyperion owns the OS and owns the Amiga trademarks, which they of course don't).

Here is the situation after the settlement:

Hyperion has built a house (OS4). They have built it by heavily relying on construction materials (Amiga OS 3.1) that are *loaned* (and then they added their own stuff to the construction as well).

Hyperion actually acknowledge in the settlement that the loaned bricks and planks (Amiga OS 3.1) used to build the OS4 house are indeed owned by Amiga Inc. And then Amiga Inc acknowledge in the settlement that the house is owned by Hyperion, *except* for the loaned bricks and planks they used to actually build the house, which *are still* owned by Amiga Inc!

Now, who owns the house?

And to connect to the quoted statement above, is there really *any* winners from way the court case ended?

[number6]

They didn't, some people are just confused (some people even believes Hyperion owns the OS and owns the Amiga trademarks, which they of course don't).

Here is the situation after the settlement:

Hyperion has built a house (OS4). They have built it by heavily relying on construction materials (Amiga OS 3.1) that are *loaned* (and then they added their own stuff to the construction as well).

Hyperion actually acknowledge in the settlement that the loaned bricks and planks (Amiga OS 3.1) used to build the OS4 house are indeed owned by Amiga Inc. And then Amiga Inc acknowledge in the settlement that the house is owned by Hyperion, *except* for the loaned bricks and planks they used to actually build the house, which *are still* owned by Amiga Inc!

Now, who owns the house?

And to connect to the quoted statement above, is there really *any* winners from way the court case ended?

We both know your question is rhetorical.
Of course not. The old adage is that a settlement is succesful if both sides extricate themselves with an equal amount of disappointment.

#6