SAM 460 poor performance, high price

[redrumloa]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it false.

I don't understand why people would do that either but, over the years, I do recall see several posts of people saying something along the lines of, "I'm tired of all this bickering.  The Amiga Community is not what it used to be and I no longer find this fun.  I'm leaving."

Just my opinion, but it would seem like an excuse to leave a hobby they weren't enjoying any longer.

Ideally everyone would get along and disagreements would be minimal, but that never happens in any hobby group or discussion forum.

[runequester]

You've forgot about one small fact. Some second hand Mac hardware runs MorphOS. PC hardware does not. Copmaring $80 I've spent on my Power Mac with PC hardware prices is pointless then.

well, said PC could run AROS, as well as a few other options.
Right now on craigslist there's a 2.66 P4, for 50 bucks, with 1 gig of RAM.

AROS would fly on that, and it could easily run linux side by side.

[krashan]

AROS is not MorphOS. Just try both and see the difference yourself.

[Karlos]

This thread has become yet another demonstration of this illustrative guide...

[takemehomegrandma]

Now I know that buying AmigaOS products (software and hardware) is helping the Amiga development (software and hardware)

Well then, I'll keep an eye on what Commodore makes of their Workbench 5 thing. AFAIK, Commodore is the only one who will release a real Amiga (TM) product (unlike "amigaone" or whatever). If it becomes something suitable for HTPC, I'll definitely consider an Amiga 1000 from them to put in my living room. Commodore seems to be a paying customer to the Amiga IP owner, an honorable behavior, unlike the pack  behind "AmigaOS/AmigaOne" who more or less robbed Amiga through a dirty and calculated scheme spanning over several years. I don't really care if Commodore is basing Workbench 5 on Linux. In fact, that makes sense in a way, seen from their point of view.

For my *real* Amiga needs, I'll continue to use MorphOS. That one is the leanest, fastest and most elegant Amiga option ever made, it's probably very similar to what Amiga had been today, hadn't Commodore gone bankrupt. It's Amiga Done Right! It has the highest performance, the best and most advanced features, the best Amiga standards integrated, the best Amiga compatibility, etc. It's the cleanest and purest Amiga NG implementation; the developers carefully follow the Amiga spirit and API literally, not figuratively, unlike "the others" who breaks Amiga compatibility and introducing alien API's and applications in an ad-hoc manner as they go by, seemingly striving towards creating a new Linux distro of it (but naturally without USB2 support, etc, since being incomplete and inferior is their signature). And you aren't forced to purchase a €1,000 dongle for it (meaning the only supported HW if you didn't get that), costing 10x-30x the money while offering by far inferior performance.

Buying "amigaos/amigaone" products only helps prolonging this irrational madness; that products "must" be ridiculously expensive, that Amiga compatibility doesn't matter, that performance isn't important, that the left-over Amiga standards (after MorphOS picked the best) are the best way to go, that being forever beta is perfectly OK. And even worse, it will only bring more of the dirty legal crap games played by their central figure Ben Hermans. All in all, the day he and his mediocre Linux Game Porting company (because that's what Hyperion is, a mediocre Linux Game Porting company) entered the Amiga scene and sent the Frieden brothers on a university crash course in OS development was indeed a very sad one. Their persistent online FUD games, community splitting efforts and apartheid websites is what brought the platform to its sad state. They use their bogus trade marks to feed weak-minded and blind brand-name followers with vastly over-priced yet inferior products of sub-standard quality and performance. And there is actually a crowd (albeit small and diminishing) cheering this, like this "drHirudo" fellow above is an example of. I however wouldn't for my life put any money whatsoever in that direction. I would feel dirty if I did.

[cha05e90]

That one is the leanest, fastest and most elegant Amiga option ever made, it's probably very similar to what Amiga had been today, hadn't Commodore gone bankrupt.ng by far inferior performance.

Only one comment to this sentence: No! While I really like my MorphOS 2.7 on Pegasos II - *if* Commodore would not have gone bunk and survived in it's global form, AmigaOS would/could have been far, far, far in front of both AmigaOS (current) and MorphOS.

It's a difference between a tiny handful of semi-hobby coders like we have today in all variants (AROS, MorphOS, AmigaOS) struggling for more or less a decade now or having the backup of an R&D departement of a global player (which Commodore was!). So, whatever would have come out from this theory, you can be sure it would not have looked like MorphOS. And not like current AmigaOS or AROS in this respect.

[Kronos]

Actually it would have been WindowsNT (yes serious).

OS-development under C= has allways been seriously underfunded and such were the results.

When C= bought Amiga most of the basics of the OS had allready been done and C= only made sure the biggest holes were filled in the cheapest/fastes way possible (the dreaded Tripos-DOS comes to mind).

1.1 was just a quickfix to allow for PAL-Amigas, 1.2 had some serious bugs removed, and 1.3 offered little beyond autobootsupport a basic Shell and support for more than 512k chipmen.

2.x was the 1st real update and that happened 5 years after C= bought Amiga.

Or in other words, if C= had started on the same basis as MorphOS did 10 years ago they wouldn't have gotten much further ...

[Khephren]

I think commodore would have been slightly ahead of the current players, but not by much.
As Kronos said, they were pretty lazy on OS updates, no RTG implementation, no 24bit printing etc.
Although by the time of their demise, I think they had just come to the realisation that it was the Amiga or nothing for them, but to late. Had they survived, perhaps they would have put more effort in.

[jj]

This thread has become yet another demonstration of this illustrative guide...

not seen that before, pretty spot on

[DAX]

@cha05e90
Indeed, something most don't seem to get here is how even the most mature Amiga like OS is way behind the likes of Windows7 or SnowLeopard.
And since all of us have a second machine running one of those, going back to any Amiga flavor is done out of feel and pure love for that feel, certainly not because we realized any of the flavors delivers features and performance on par with our i7 modern gear.
Some like to support AmigaOS anticipating the day both OS and HW will somehow catch-up with modernity. Others see more potential in excellent MorphOS, yet some love to fuel the "war of the Poor" as I like to call it, with proclamations of omnipotence (in the Amiga realm) heavily disregarding the reality we live in (as in "end of January 2011, the year of SandyBridge").

So for these guys let me say it straight: if some have chosen a different flavor than yours, it's NOT because of features/price and performance (all in favor of WinTel) but because they prefer a different paradigm.
In my case I want AmigaOS on custom HW made for it, others are welcome in preferring something else.
So, keep supporting your favorite flavor, by doing this you'll make sure it will progress in the right direction, just please, stop the war of the poor, as  if it were for features, price and performance there would be no-one here  left to speak to, trust me on this one.

And yes, the visual guide Karlos linked (aptly named "The Troll Matrix"), is quite Spot on.

[jorkany]

@cha05e90
Indeed, something most don't seem to get here is how even the most mature Amiga like OS is way behind the likes of Windows7 or SnowLeopard.

Good post, DAX.

Only thing I'd like to point out is that the "Amiga tradition" now seems to be "We are better because we are weirdly different". But when the real Amiga was on it's game the tradition was: "We are better because we smoke their asses".

[DAX]

@jorkany
I wouldn't say Amiga was only good because it smoked anything out there, sometime a good combination of factors   might end up delivering a better (or rather "preferred") experience.

As a matter of fact the original Amiga never smoked other computers in terms of pure CPU power (heck on that regard even the AtariST was slightly superior) only did great at handling raster graphics, BUT more or less simultaneously with the A500 release, Sharp delivered the X68000 in Japan which as far as raster graphics went, could say a thing or two let me tell you (res up to 1024x1024, 31Khz ScreenModes, up to 65000colors and much more) lucky Commodore as they never released it outside Japan.

What I find truly unique is the Multitasking OS and the great software it inspired.

But alas those days are gone, and although we can no longer claim to be at the forefront, we can still operate a new computer the way we prefer and love, and contrary to our Japanese friends (X68000 users) we can still look forward to several "happenings" (460EX+X1000+AOS4.X, MOS and new supported HW, AROS, Natami, etc.) which is something special in its own right...

[Iggy]

@jorkany
I wouldn't say Amiga was only good because it smoked anything out there, sometime a good combination of factors   might end up delivering a better (or rather "preferred") experience.

As a matter of fact the original Amiga never smoked other computers in terms of pure CPU power (heck on that regard even the AtariST was slightly superior) only did great at handling raster graphics, BUT more or less simultaneously with the A500 release, Sharp delivered the X68000 in Japan which as far as raster graphics went, could say a thing or two let me tell you (res up to 1024x1024, 31Khz ScreenModes, up to 65000colors and much more) lucky Commodore as they never released it outside Japan.

What I find truly unique is the Multitasking OS and the great software it inspired.

But alas those days are gone, and although we can no longer claim to be at the forefront, we can still operate a new computer the way we prefer and love, and contrary to our Japanese friends (X68000 users) we can still look forward to several "happenings" (460EX+X1000+AOS4.X, MOS and new supported HW, AROS, Natami, etc.) which is something special in its own right...

Absolutely! We have a lot going on, and some great suff to look forward to for a system so many of our own posters keep referring to as 'dead'.

[number6]

This thread has become yet another demonstration of this illustrative guide...

I suggest expanding it to a 5x5 grid.
Trust me...you'll need it.

#6

[Khephren]

@jorkany
I wouldn't say Amiga was only good because it smoked anything out there, sometime a good combination of factors   might end up delivering a better (or rather "preferred") experience.

As a matter of fact the original Amiga never smoked other computers in terms of pure CPU power (heck on that regard even the AtariST was slightly superior) only did great at handling raster graphics, BUT more or less simultaneously with the A500 release, Sharp delivered the X68000 in Japan which as far as raster graphics went, could say a thing or two let me tell you (res up to 1024x1024, 31Khz ScreenModes, up to 65000colors and much more) lucky Commodore as they never released it outside Japan.

What I find truly unique is the Multitasking OS and the great software it inspired.something special in its own right...

Well, tha Amiga used the CPU as a conductor, not the just as the orchestra, so it did not need quite as much grunt as CPU reliant machines. And wasn't just raster graphics that benefited from the custom chips.

I've always been interested in the x68000, but I don't expect I could have picked one up for £400 like I did with the A500, does not matter how powerfull a machine is, if I can't afford it!

[dammy]

This thread has become yet another demonstration of this illustrative guide...

Guess by the end of the year, that chart will see v2.0 revision?  New players are coming in, they need to be included.