A500/2000 accelerator cards: still unfeasible to create new ones?

[runequester]

I figured most people who use 500's use them mainly because they are the most compatible with old games.
 
If you use it for more advanced purposes, I imagine you'd better off with something else (built-in IDE or SCSI, more expansions available etc)

[Darrin]

I don't think it's a question how do we use our Amigas. You use what you have at your disposal. For instance, looking at the content of your signature I can only concur that A1200 is by far best model for overall usage - for you, ins pite of a fact you do own a lot of A500s (repsect . On other side, some other people might look at A500 doing a fraction of A1200 job as a challenge and thus consider A500 expansion as priority over other options.
Don't get me wrong, for a while it's pretty common to see a lot of think-tank volumes suggesting something like 'forget A500, get a A1200'; now, with a clear opportunity to make a change for A500 we're confronted with same suggestion.

Back in late '80s, I don't recollect the time Amiga users were driving HW development by such biased or perhaps limited standpoint.

Don't forget that with regards to a target audience, the A500 really is a games orientated machine.  If all you want to do is play games and use WHDload then the CPU card has to fight off the Minimig and FPGA Arcade (or even UAE).

A fairly basic Minimig already gives you an "A500+" with a turbo CPU, 4 "floppies", scan doubler, 1.5MB or 3.5MB of RAM and a nice big hard drive.

Jens can't aford to make this card too expensive or many people will either by a Minimig or pick up a second hand A1200 instead.

[Darrin]

I figured most people who use 500's use them mainly because they are the most compatible with old games.
 
If you use it for more advanced purposes, I imagine you'd better off with something else (built-in IDE or SCSI, more expansions available etc)

Exactly.

If you want a souped up ECS experience then you're going to use an A2000 or A3000.

[Lockon_15]

Well a cheap 68020 with Fast RAM will allow OS3.9 to be installed and to run WHDLoad.

My first CPU card for my A1200 was an overclocked 68020 (28MHz) with an extra 4MB of RAM and that thing satisfied me for years.

A530 with 030@40, 8Mb FAST.
OS3.9 with all eye-candy (considering ECS) still pretty slow. Add there Poseidon USB stack for Subway and you end up with even slower machine.
OS3.1 helps a lot, but is pain-in-the a$$ to achieve stability trying to reach OS3.9 look&feel.

For WHDLoad, 68010 with vintage 4MB Fast/HDD and 0,5MB Ranger will cover 99% games. Verified.

[Darrin]

A530 with 030@40, 8Mb FAST.
OS3.9 with all eye-candy (considering ECS) still pretty slow. Add there Poseidon USB stack for Subway and you end up with even slower machine.
OS3.1 helps a lot, but is pain-in-the a$$ to achieve stability trying to reach OS3.9 look&feel.

For WHDLoad, 68010 with vintage 4MB Fast/HDD and 0,5MB Ranger will cover 99% games. Verified.

68030 @ 40MHz slow with OS3.1?  My expectations must be low.  

[Lockon_15]

Don't forget that with regards to a target audience, the A500 really is a games orientated machine.  If all you want to do is play games and use WHDload then the CPU card has to fight off the Minimig and FPGA Arcade (or even UAE).

A fairly basic Minimig already gives you an "A500+" with a turbo CPU, 4 "floppies", scan doubler, 1.5MB or 3.5MB of RAM and a nice big hard drive.

Jens can't aford to make this card too expensive or many people will either by a Minimig or pick up a second hand A1200 instead.

That's a fair assumption.
But then A600 is also games orienated machine, sharing same pro's and con's like A500. Somehow I really fail to see what would justify success on A600 and stray A500 in same time. With respect to Minimig or A1200, I don't think there are many users waiting in line for Minimig or A1200 either. The fact is that bunch of A500s are sitting in the attic and closets surviving annoual clearouts just because they are missing some 15-16 years of new HW support.

Otherwise we can all trash our 'true HW' and join WinUAE beta testing thread at EAB (respect to TW).

[Lockon_15]

68030 @ 40MHz slow with OS3.1?  My expectations must be low.  

:lol:

Well, I did make AWeb working on Subway/genesis combo pretty well.
Shapeshifter-based RTG driver for Indivision ECS is aslo being developed from Oliver@IndividualComputers, we might see WB in 256 colors on A500.

I hope this helps figuring out where this could lead;)

[desiv]

I think the market has a lot to do with it, and Jens seems to feel that the best market for these cards is people looking to play games.  WHDLOAD machines basically.

I would guess that he's probably right.
An inexpensive, new, professionally made 68020 card for the A500 with a bunch of RAM (and I would think it would have to have storage of some type, CF/SD) would appeal to the most people out there..

Yes, there are people who want really fast cards, but fewer of them are out there, and fewer still who don't already have something faster...

Jens has said tho, that although they are talking about designs seriously, his main project right now is Indivision AGA's Mark 2's (or whatever they are calling them), so it might be a little bit before the A500 items get more serious.

Just thinking of a few other things:
One, it will depend on how easily or not he can get stock.  He apparently went with the 68030EC for the lower end 1200 cards, in part because he could get them in enough quantity at a decent price..
Two, he's looking at these cards as "gateway" cards.  Not as in the cow computers, but entry level for his other products.  He wants you to use your Amiga enough that you want an Indivision and whatever else they have.  But if the initial cost is too much, it will keep people away before they get hooked..

desiv

[runequester]

That's a fair assumption.
But then A600 is also games orienated machine, sharing same pro's and con's like A500. Somehow I really fail to see what would justify success on A600 and stray A500 in same time. With respect to Minimig or A1200, I don't think there are many users waiting in line for Minimig or A1200 either. The fact is that bunch of A500s are sitting in the attic and closets surviving annoual clearouts just because they are missing some 15-16 years of new HW support.
 
Otherwise we can all trash our 'true HW' and join WinUAE beta testing thread at EAB (respect to TW).

The 600 is hard drive "ready", as well as the PCMCIA slot, so it is more readily expandable. That might have something to do with it.
Also comes with ECS and 2.x kickstart, so might play nicer with some hardware too.
 
Im sure if someone made it for the 500, people would buy it, just because it was there, but I can see why the 600s and 1200s were first in line.

[Darrin]

That's a fair assumption.
But then A600 is also games orienated machine, sharing same pro's and con's like A500. Somehow I really fail to see what would justify success on A600 and stray A500 in same time. With respect to Minimig or A1200, I don't think there are many users waiting in line for Minimig or A1200 either. The fact is that bunch of A500s are sitting in the attic and closets surviving annoual clearouts just because they are missing some 15-16 years of new HW support.

Otherwise we can all trash our 'true HW' and join WinUAE beta testing thread at EAB (respect to TW).

Yep, the A500 is a sort of fogotten machine and there must be tens of thousands of them hibernating in deep, dark places.

Strangely enough, the A500 is one of the few Amigas I've never actually owned (along with the A600 - lack of keypad and the CDTV - lack of funds at the time).  The reason for that was that I jumped straight in to the A2000 because of the lack of easy expansion at the time.

For me to use an A500 on a regular basis I would need the CPU card to be OS3.9 friendly, have some extra RAM and some sort of IDE connector.  A clockport for a Subway would be icing on the cake.

[Darrin]

:lol:

Well, I did make AWeb working on Subway/genesis combo pretty well.
Shapeshifter-based RTG driver for Indivision ECS is aslo being developed from Oliver@IndividualComputers, we might see WB in 256 colors on A500.

I hope this helps figuring out where this could lead;)

LOL.  Now THAT would be impressive.  

[Lockon_15]

The 600 is hard drive "ready", as well as the PCMCIA slot, so it is more readily expandable. That might have something to do with it.
Also comes with ECS and 2.x kickstart, so might play nicer with some hardware too.
 
Im sure if someone made it for the 500, people would buy it, just because it was there, but I can see why the 600s and 1200s were first in line.

Could be.
There's also one more possible reason, a story about horror Jens experienced while supporting his HW peripherals working (or better said, when not working) with Appollo accelerators and also failed A600 030 accelerator which failed to met both stability and ROHS  compliance standards. I read somewhere that he has bought every Apollo which appeared on eBay for last 5 years or so (unverified).

[runequester]

Could be.
There's also one more possible reason, a story about horror Jens experienced while supporting his HW peripherals working (or better said, when not working) with Appollo accelerators and also failed A600 030 accelerator which failed to met both stability and ROHS compliance standards. I read somewhere that he has bought every Apollo which appeared on eBay for last 5 years or so (unverified).

From the threads on EAB, he seems very intent on only providing hardware that he can reasonably support for the customer, so that's likely a big factor as well.

[Lockon_15]

Sure he does.
Just like he already said that ACA520 will not work with CBM A570 & A590 drive units.

[giZmo350]

I would guess that he's probably right.
An inexpensive, new, professionally made 68020 card for the A500 with a bunch of RAM (and I would think it would have to have storage of some type, CF/SD) would appeal to the most people out there..
desiv

Bingo!
I'm always looking for a way to make my A500 sit in a smaller footprint (ditch my A590). An accelerator with a removable CF/SD card solution (for ADFs) on IDE & Indivision (for LCD) would give me the best and most compatible machine for games & WHDLoad. I occasionaly look at the MiniMig but just can't justify the added expense since I already have a great A500 rev 6a MB unit.

I already have a beast of an A1200 (still work in progress - still waiting on a digital camera Run Requestor!) for KS3.1/OS3.9

[Photon]

The 600 is hard drive "ready", as well as the PCMCIA slot, so it is more readily expandable.

Expandable with the three possible expansions available for it, SRAM, card adapter, and Ethernet. That limits it, and you'll have to choose one and only one. Forget fastram if you need a transfer card, and forget internet if you don't have an accelerator (same as for A500).

Yes, for any accel to sell for A500s it would need a harddisk interface. 68020 accel without harddisk interface... no point in bringing out the A500 from the closet, there will be endless support tickets if misc old harddisk interfaces are used.

Also comes with ECS and 2.x kickstart, so might play nicer with some hardware too.

I doubt A600 sales came close to A500+ sales, and it has ECS and kick 2.0. So. Not that ECS/2.0 ever played nice with anything...

The first thing people would do, now that new harddisk interfaces with fastram (and now maybe also faster CPU) are being made, is to finally plop in kick 3.1, because the harddisk interface would have drivers not made for kick 1.3

Im sure if someone made it for the 500, people would buy it, just because it was there, but I can see why the 600s and 1200s were first in line.

If someone made it for A500 (with harddisk interface), people would buy it just as they did for A600, because it would make it exactly as usable as their A600.

Sorry for butting in and respect to all involved, but I just don't buy how the A600 has any points in favor of the A500 in this particular question.