The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...

[zylesea]

My standpoint:
I come a long way from 68k, but started migration to ppc more than a decade ago. I sold all my 68k stuff except a vanilla A600. I like the Arcade replay though and am thinking of accquiring one for the retro part in me.
But I am not much of a retro guy, but look rather forward. I try to get the best and most optimized solution. Hence I migrated to MorphOS. Currently I use it for about 90% of my private computing things (Skye is one of the few things I boot Linux or OS X for) and a good amount of my job's computer things.
MorphOS is highly optimized and matured, many apps available for it are really nice. I think it is the most advanced Amigaish system today *by far*.
But I also like AROS. It is open source and free and catches up. And it runs on even more hardware. For MorphOS and OS4 on ppc the air is rather thin on the hardware side. MorphOS at least supports proven, easily and cheaply availabe hardware that is good enough for the next couple of years.
What I also like on MorphOS is the developers and most users. Usually they view things rather realistic. No pipe dreams, but realistic views. And I use MorphOS since the 0.4 release and while many things during the first half of the recent decade didn't developed as hoped the MorphOS team didn't quit but proceeded and the development pace is good today.
The next big step will be the powerbook support. And while I used WinUAE on a laptop ages ago, this will be a new level (this is where AROS actually leads).
Plus, it is big fun to see OS X struggle on things that MorphOS does on the same hardware quite well.
With my about 10 years af MorphOS support I thing I drove quite well and don't see a point to change that. But I will take AROS more into consideration as well (but it is still miles awaay from MorphOS) and maybe add myself an arcade replay maschine for fun of it.

[Einstein]

I only stand near amiga.org waiting for news about remakes of old classics, and also shake my head "once in a while".

[Iggy]

Well, I mentioned three different things that draw me to three different solutions that all appeal to me for their connections to the "Amiga feeling". Maybe I take a look at MorphOS some day too, if it gets ported to some more interesting hardware.

Personally I very much hope that cross-Amiga-like OS development will start to get easier, as I while I actually find the diversity a strength in some ways (we're pretty much guaranteed to always have hardware that can run one of our OS's directly or in emulation, for starters...), where it really sucks is in duplication of effort in porting and writing new software. That's our biggest weakness at the moment.

Sorry about the snide tone in the last posting. I have never been a fan of apple hardware myself (probably because Steve Jobs is such a tool). But G4 Macs under MorphOS don't feel like Macs, frankly its hard to tell the difference between OS4 and MorphOS.

And AROS, AOS4, and MorphOS all are backward compatible with 3.1. Porting software across all three platforms is fairly easy.

Porting across all Amiga platforms is possible. I've seen packages that run on all them.

And I do sympathize with you about Linux, emulation and virtual machines. PC pricing is hard to beat. I just upgraded my Foxconn motherboard (which has four x16 PCIe slots) with a Phenom X3 for <$70 (@Newegg) that I can run at 3.3 Ghz.
The 1.8 Ghz Sonnett upgrade card for my Powermac set me back $150 (more then I spent on the whole system). So I guess I've got no right to lecture on ecomomy.
Besides, if I had the money, I'd probably buy an X1000 too.

[kedawa]

FPGA clones and AROS are the only things that really excite me in the Amiga world.  I don't have a problem with the other options, though, and unlike some of you, I see variety and choice as being far more beneficial than a having a single monolithic proprietary platform.

[smerf]

Hi,

@Franko,

Well I have an Amiga 4000, and Amiga 1200 up and running as of today. Of course the A4000 has been my data holder since 1992. The only time I fire up my A4000 is to update data. Now for playing games I use Amiga Forever by Cloanto. I have been trying to see how long I could maintain data on AF, but it is not AF that is the problem it is Windows (I mean Windows 7 too) It still crashes and burns, but then again since this does not hold any of my real data, who cares (I should care since Windows 7 probably costs more than an A500).

Anyhow I like Amiga Forever because it can use all the new hardware thats out there. I can use usb drives to back up my files (and with windows this is a must). No it is not like the real Amiga, but I do like the speed, I like using the new modern day hardware and to put it simply it works, its cheap and it is here today.

If any of you chairback engineers disagree tough luck, come up with something better.

Please don't insult the Amiga by running it on a MAC. I used to be a Commodore salesman selling Amiga's and I really hated those smug, coniving tie and suit shootholes.

Oh don't buy that Amiga it is just a fancy toy. It can't really do any professional work.

Why do I like the PC, I really don't, but they are cheap, available, and can run the Amiga software today. I don't have to spend $2700 for them, and for an investment of less than a $1000 I usually can make one kicka** game machine that runs Amiga software.

smerf

[Iggy]

Please don't insult the Amiga by running it on a MAC. I used to be a Commodore salesman selling Amiga's and I really hated those smug, coniving tie and suit shootholes.

smerf

Sorry dude, I can understand your attitude about Apple fanatics and the smug salesmen. But using their hardware to run a better OS is a great personal comment about how lame OSX is.
And the only good use for a Mac IS using it to run Amiga software and Apple abandoned these machines so I feel OK using them. Besides I don't even have OSX installed on my Powermac.

[Piru]

Please don't insult the Amiga by running it on a MAC. I used to be a Commodore salesman selling Amiga's and I really hated those smug, coniving tie and suit *****holes.

Just because you have issues with Mac and Mac salesmen everyone should stay away from Macs? I find that somewhat arrogant really.

Mac PowerPC HW is great, certainly better than anything that is available currently. Please don't insult us by telling us to avoid it just because you have issues.

[agami]

Where I stand is not really a mystery if you've read any of my articles over at amigaz.org

To summarise; A long time ago there was a computing platform called Amiga. It allowed users to express their digital creativity in a way that other systems allowed much later. It was conceived and created by people who knew what they were doing. Manufactured and sold by people who refused to learn and adapt.

Nothing available today holds the hope for the future, because they're all looking to the past.

Anything new that may embody the spirit of the Amiga will most likely not go by that name. It will allow a new generation of people to express their digital creativity in new ways, in ways that other systems will mimic in years to come. It will be conceived and created by people who know what they're doing, and hopefully this time it will be manufactured and sold by people eager to learn and adapt to changes.

For this new computing platform I maintain hope.

[gertsy]

Just because you have issues with Mac and Mac salesmen everyone should stay away from Macs? I find that somewhat arrogant really.

Mac PowerPC HW is great, certainly better than anything that is available currently. Please don't insult us by telling us to avoid it just because you have issues.

I think he was just expressing a personal opinion "Please don't insult" and "I really hated" that's a personal view and a most entitled one."  I didn't pick up an insinuation that every one should follow his opinion?

For me I tend to agree with agami's starting premise, I think the world has moved on now.  The Amiga was a fantastic computer.  Without major corporate/manufacturer support and backing in the 80's it would never have got off the ground.  Today it 'aint going to happen any other way.
I think if you treat the flavours as a serious hobby that should be enough for anyone and maybe a large corporate investor will take a flowering idea and turn it into another fantastic computer.  Maybe.
There's been a bit of a mention of trolls in this thread, funnily I see an analogy between the Amiga and the Elves in LOTR; "the time of the Elves has past, the time of Men is here."  
You can't change Men into Elves even if you put fake pointed ears on them, they're still Men, they just have fake pointed ears.

[bloodline]

Hi,


Please don't insult the Amiga by running it on a MAC. I used to be a Commodore salesman selling Amiga's and I really hated those smug, coniving tie and suit shootholes.

Oh don't buy that Amiga it is just a fancy toy. It can't really do any professional work.

smerf

Ok, Apple are still around and Commodore aren't... so maybe you should have been a better salesman like the Apple guys... Backatcha!

[Franko]

Apple sales people are a bunch of toffee nosed twats (well the one's in the official Apple store in Edinburgh are anyway) plus half of the dunderheids who work there talk with a grating half Scottish half American accents, get right up my nose so they do, hope at the next students strike they pan in their windows and loot the bloody place... :madashell:

RANT OVER... Apologies to all... (except if you work in that ruddy shop..)

(Mind you I'm from Glasgow & we don't like Edinburgh folk anyways, east & west don't mix... )

[Karlos]

@Iggy & Piru

I expected better from you guys than to bite on smerf's trollbait

[Fats]

Reckon I have to agree a lot with what Mechy has to say as I seem to have travelled much the same Amiga path as him although I don't quite agree with his dismal outlook on the Amigas future. As for running the Amiga under emulation on a PC or MAC just to benefit from easy access to readily available peripherals then that to me is not what the Amiga is about.

I think one of the big problems is that some people believe their idea about an amiga is the only true way of thinking about an amiga e.g. like you guys think it is the m68k hardware with coprocessors. My - probably Utopian - wish is that all people could consider people running some form of Amiga 'system' like UAE, OS3.x, OS4.x, MOS, AROS be part of the amiga community and not part of the betrayals to the Amiga cause.

I have an A2000, A1200, A3000, A4000 and A1 at home but hey are hardly used. I like programming and I am an open source proponent (not a FSF believer though). That's why I am an AROS programmer. Eventually I would like to make a PPC AROS versions compatible with the other PPC amiga OSes: e.g. one with an ABI for OS4.x and one for MOS.
I also would like a dev environment that would make is very easy to make Amiga programs that run on all amiga systems (OS3.x, OS4.x, MOS and of course AROS).
Am I a betrayal to the Amiga cause ?

greets,
Staf.

[bloodline]

Apple sales people are a bunch of toffee nosed twats (well the one's in the official Apple store in Edinburgh are anyway) plus half of the dunderheids who work there talk with a grating half Scottish half American accents, get right up my nose so they do, hope at the next students strike they pan in their windows and loot the bloody place... :madashell:

Can't speak for The Edinburgh Apple Store, but the ones in London are lovely... it;s the only technologic store you can walk into where all the products are easy to access, set up and and running... and where the staff leave me alone... no asking me if I'm ¨alright¨, if I ¨need help¨ or have I seen the latest xyz... and if/when I finally do decide to enquire or buy something they do exactly what I ask... and don't try and sell me anything more or do anything out side of my request... that's exactly the service I want, and It was because of that I was able to try out a Mac in 2005 which had all the software I wanted to test (already set up there on the bench), that allowed me to decide to get one...

[Franko]

I think one of the big problems is that some people believe their idea about an amiga is the only true way of thinking about an amiga e.g. like you guys think it is the m68k hardware with coprocessors. My - probably Utopian - wish is that all people could consider people running some form of Amiga 'system' like UAE, OS3.x, OS4.x, MOS, AROS be part of the amiga community and not part of the betrayals to the Amiga cause.

I have an A2000, A1200, A3000, A4000 and A1 at home but hey are hardly used. I like programming and I am an open source proponent (not a FSF believer though). That's why I am an AROS programmer. Eventually I would like to make a PPC AROS versions compatible with the other PPC amiga OSes: e.g. one with an ABI for OS4.x and one for MOS.
I also would like a dev environment that would make is very easy to make Amiga programs that run on all amiga systems (OS3.x, OS4.x, MOS and of course AROS).
Am I a betrayal to the Amiga cause ?

greets,
Staf.

@ Fats

Who mentioned betrayal ? :confused:

The Amiga to me is a combination of both the hardware & OS, for me it's all about finding ways to make the Amiga work with whatever hardware we can get to run on it. It's also still an alternative to the world of PC's & Macs, it has a totally different feel to it in user terms than anything the Mac of PC has to offer.

If folk want to run Aros or MorphOS or even an emulator that's all find and dandy by me, the more folk that have an interest in the Amiga on whichever platform they choose to run it can only be to certain degree a good thing. At the same time though if more and more folk choose this path and the users of genuine Amiga hardware dwindle to next to nothing then the few Amiga hardware developers & retailers left will soon be no more and those ingenious (if few) new pieces of kit that they bring out will cease forever.

I just don't see the point in running a different OS on different hardware unless it's almost 100% backwards compatible with all the old Amiga software (hopefully the Natami will be the answer to this) and having the same feel as the classic Amiga Workbench environment .

At the end of the day if I wanted an easy life when it comes to computers I could simply use this Mac I'm typing on right now to do whatever I want/need but I choose not to as I prefer my trusty old Amiga's and the pleasure that they bring to me.

When you reduce the Amiga to nothing more than an OS then for me it takes away one of the biggest parts of being an Amiga user and that is the ability to tinker & problem solve with the original Amiga hardware. That's when it no longer becomes an Amiga to me, but this is just my own personal viewpoint and noone has to agree or take any notice of it.

[Karlos]

Can't speak for The Edinburgh Apple Store, but the ones in London are lovely... it;s the only technologic store you can walk into where all the products are easy to access, set up and and running... and where the staff leave me alone... no asking me if I'm ¨alright¨, if I ¨need help¨ or have I seen the latest xyz... and if/when I finally do decide to enquire or buy something they do exactly what I ask... and don't try and sell me anything more or do anything out side of my request...

Yeah, last I heard, they the ones that had to get you restrained after you ran into the place before the plate glass doors even fully opened screaming "Sell me your delicious apple pie! I need it all!" :lol: