Amiga PCs on the way....

[ajlwalker]

I've heard of price sticker rage, now people are getting worked up about a brand name sticker. You should calm down.
I see this as a novelty item, if someone wants to sell AROS boxes why stop them? If they are not legit, why feed them?

Sure, like we'll listen to you telling people the calm down after your behaviour on this thread.

Good one!

[ajlwalker]

You've hit the nail on the head.  I have no idea what the other poster waas ranting about :s

Uncertainty in a market that currently requires confidence to succeed (the X1000) could be a disaster.  I really do hope this isn't the case and most people aren't disuaded from from their purcahses of X1000's, SAM's etc.


Steve

Sadly, since making my comment, I've seen two other similar comments on Amiga forums.

It's a lot of money to pay out for an X1000, and I do want confidence in my purchase.  I can't see how a company with such perceived small revenues can continually spend it's time in court.

To be clear I want an X1000 so I can run OS4 on it, not anything else.  I can do that on a PC.  That is it's only use to me.  If Hyperion spend their money and effort on yet another legal case, I can only see it doing them and their product harm.  This discourages me from parting with my money.

[Amiga_Nut]

I think we need an URGENT update to AROS......

One where the boot/splash screen has in nuclear green luminous flashing fonts the words "Barry S Altman and CommodoreUSA are a big con, do not purchase, reverse your VISA payment immediately"

Oh and if you want an Amiga PC here is how you make one....

1. Buy PC for peanuts in PC World
2. Purchase boing ball sticker on ebay for 99 cents
3. Boot from your downloaded DVD ISO of ICAROS and choose 'intall' once DVD booted.

Think I will make some bullshit website with the name Commodore somewhere in it and start a new trend of releasing press releases on my website that nobody can confirm because Bill has been kidnapped by Aliens or passed into a parallel universe a la Fringe

[Amiga_Nut]

Sadly, since making my comment, I've seen two other similar comments on Amiga forums.

It's a lot of money to pay out for an X1000, and I do want confidence in my purchase.  I can't see how a company with such perceived small revenues can continually spend it's time in court.

To be clear I want an X1000 so I can run OS4 on it, not anything else.  I can do that on a PC.  That is it's only use to me.  If Hyperion spend their money and effort on yet another legal case, I can only see it doing them and their product harm.  This discourages me from parting with my money.

Well no, because if anyone would be able to confirm if Bill McEwan even agreed to this it is Hyperion. And if it's bullshit as we suspect some lawyers will be tearing Barry Altman a new asshole in court. Win/win

[cicero790]

Now when the traditional and most holy rite of new project mudslinging is nearly at an end, and everyone is greased down from top to toe, happy, refreshed and slightly tired,  I send a hope that everyone is intact to mind and body, and I look very much forward to follow this promising project IMHO.

I don't know who's made them and I don't care but then I first laid eyes on these machines on CUSA it was an instant “Oh, yes.”

I started on a A500 and went on to the A1200. I never owned a boxed Amiga, so what I saw in those pics was a logic style evolution of the familiar 1200 design. Again IMHO.

I think most ppl in this community knows what they like and what they don't like. Some are insanely knowledgeable hardware experts that feel uncomfortable if some detail is wrong from the original design. Some are software experts that can't live if something deviate from the 3.1 code of which I never saw a single line, since I'm a user only.
I do not think any of the other projects are threatened by this. They got their own following for  different and justified reasons.

The good thing that could come out of this is that more ppl finds their way back into Amiga controlled territory. And I think Aros, which I like and use, could get attention from outside, in a positive way and maybe more ppl will get involved in developing. If this means that some machines that look like a natural evolution from the original design will be supported, then what is the crime against humanity in that. I think it just splendid if machines looking like that, with commodore brand an all, is available to run Aros on them.

The x1000 was never aimed at a replacing PC if I understand, and ppl following this want a powerhouse for AmigaOS, and that is underway thanks to dedicated ppl.

Morph forms the perfect and natural bridge for MAC users to get back to Amiga, and with new models supported more power is available for productivity apps.

This project could fill its own niche and purpose and benefit Aros I think.

I hope it turns out well.

H*ll of a day at sea, sir!

[ElPolloDiabl]

Sadly, since making my comment, I've seen two other similar comments on Amiga forums.

It's a lot of money to pay out for an X1000, and I do want confidence in my purchase.  I can't see how a company with such perceived small revenues can continually spend it's time in court.

To be clear I want an X1000 so I can run OS4 on it, not anything else.  I can do that on a PC.  That is it's only use to me.  If Hyperion spend their money and effort on yet another legal case, I can only see it doing them and their product harm.  This discourages me from parting with my money.

If I had the money for an x1000, I'd stuff it all into a cannon and fire it off into the atmosphere.
If you want to do something useful with the money buy an FPGA arcade, a PC and put the rest into an AROS bounty for porting the kickstart and whatever graphics card you use.

[Tripitaka]

Hyperion does *not* have a license for the use of the mark "Amiga". Their license explicitly grants them the right to use the four marks "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaONE", "Amiga ONE". See the difference? The four latter marks are for exclusive use by Hyperion. Nothing more, nothing less. As long as Amiga Inc (or anyone else) stays clear from those, everything is perfectly fine. (And this goes the other way around as well, as Hyperion had better stay away from "Amiga").

I never stated that Hyperion had a license for the use of the mark "Amiga". Check my post. The mark I mentioned for Hyperion was "AmigaOS", so yes, I know the difference. As for everything being fine if A Inc avoid the exclusive Hyperion TM's, well that's not exactly true. Issues can arise from similar marks eg. if I marked a car "Fyord" in Fords graphical style, I could get sued. I'm not saying this would happen, I was just pointing out that it could.

I can't see no mention in the contract (but maybe I missed it? If so, please point me to the right spot!) of:
1) Hyperion would even have been granted a right to use any specific and particular graphical representation of any trademark (except for "the Boing Ball", which is explicitly not exclusive)

ALL Trademarks are specific graphical representations first and foremost. Different graphical representations are more subjective in law and fall under the fair usage scenario, hence why courts are needed to settle such issues.

2) That this granted right (if it's even there, which I think not) should in any way be exclusive to Hyperion

We know what is granted to Hyperion as exclusive, you've stated Hyperions exclusive rights yourself.

In fact, it's even specifically pointed out, for the sake of clarity (just to avoid situations like the one you try to paint to us), in the Hyperion/Amiga Inc agreement, that the Amiga Parties (Amiga Inc, ltec, Amino collectively, as defined per the topmost paragraph of the deal) are indeed the ones with the right to the "Amiga Mark" (as defined in Definitions C: "any mark owned and/or registered or licensed by or to the Amiga Parties containing the word "Amiga" whether in stylized form (figurative mark) or otherwise"), and that the Amiga Parties have the right to continue to use "the mark 'AMIGA' alone or in conjunction with other words, so long as 'OS' or 'One' does not directly follow the word 'AMIGA'." (as defined in Grant 1c).

There is no ground for confusion, everything is perfectly clear; Amiga Inc has the rights to the Amiga trade mark, including any "stylized form" it may be pictured in. Hyperion has the rights to use the "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaONE", "Amiga ONE" marks, in no particular stylized form (as far as I can see), and as long as Amiga Inc, Commodore and anyone else stays clear of those four marks, Hyperion does not have any grounds whatsoever for "legal actions".

If I paint it's with a brush, I'm passing opinion only on this forum not "painting", I have a studio for that.
Hyperions rights over certain words do not get constrained by graphical style as they are not singular words from an existing language. As for AIncs rights, that's not as clear cut as the wording implies as the word "Amiga" is a standard spanish word. This means that the TM holder (AInc) must fall back on graphical representation to protect ownership of the mark or on fair usage. It is on the very issue of fair usage that Hyperion could (I do not imply they would or that they would be successful if they did) argue that although AInc. hold the Amiga TM it is unfair usage to use it on a computer (like me using Fyord you see). I make this point only to inform, I personally see no need for Hyperion to react as CommodoreUS and AInc are quite frankly seen as a joke by many in this community.

Well, Natami I can understand, but Sam? Does it even have a Amiga sticker?

Maybe I'll cut one with my vinyl cutter and stick it on Maybe I'll make a couple of spares and give them away to so people can stick them on PCs they already own. Maybe I'll send you a couple. XD

[takemehomegrandma]

I never stated that Hyperion had a license for the use of the mark "Amiga". Check my post.

OK, I apologize, but lots of people in the debate seems to believe otherwise. And many also seems to think that Hyperion *own* the trademark (which they of course never did). Let's just say the clarification was for them!

The mark I mentioned for Hyperion was "AmigaOS", so yes, I know the difference. As for everything being fine if A Inc avoid the exclusive Hyperion TM's, well that's not exactly true. Issues can arise from similar marks eg. if I marked a car "Fyord" in Fords graphical style, I could get sued. I'm not saying this would happen, I was just pointing out that it could.

If the Ford company is the one owning the Ford brand, they can consider this brand to be a kind of Intellectual Property. The base logic in the free world is that anyone is free to do whatever they want with their property (with lots of exceptions of course ). So let's say they sub-license a variation of the mark, "Ford SNOW", to a snow mobile manufacturer for the explicit use on snow mobiles only.

The company behind "Ford SNOW" even acknowledge in the contract that the Ford company still owns the "Ford" mark, and are free to use it, as long as they aren't using it for branding snow mobiles.

Then they would have no grounds whatsoever for a law suit if the Ford company makes another license deal, but this time "Ford BOAT" for use explicitly to market boats.

ALL Trademarks are specific graphical representations first and foremost.

Not true. Sure, a trademark *can* be a graphical image. Like a logotype, for instance. It can also be a color, a sound, a tune, etc. And it can also be a word in plain text.

I think it's clear that Hyperion got an exclusive license to use "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaONE" and "Amiga ONE". In plain text.

Question is whether they have a license to any kind of particular graphical representation of  those words, and if so, if that is exclusive? I couldn't find that in the contract. Did I miss it?

As for AIncs rights, that's not as clear cut as the wording implies as the word "Amiga" is a standard spanish word. This means that the TM holder (AInc) must fall back on graphical representation to protect ownership of the mark or on fair usage.

Not true, you register a trade mark (could very well be a word or a combination of words) for use in marketing for a particular and defined product. The color blue is just as general as the Spanish word "Amiga", even more so even, but try marketing a cola-beverage using this color, and watch how Pepsi Cola strikes down on you like a hawk. And if you are marketing a custom-styled motorcycle, you'd better make sure it doesn't sound like Harley Davidson's trade mark protected sound, or they will kick your ass.

You are completely free to market blue colored custom-styled motorcycles however, at least you will be safe from Pepsi company. And I guess you could (could you? ) market a cola-beverage that sounds like a Harley Davidson, and be safe from that MC company. See my point?

Trade marks must be put in a carefully defined context, and are only valid in that context. I don't remember what products the Amiga trade mark is valid for, only that some of them (yes there are several, at least more than one) was somewhat aging, like "computer diskettes" or something like that. There is no "fair use" in using the color blue in marketing cola-beverages, and there is no "fair use" in using the text mark "Amiga" in marketing products covering areas protected by Amiga Inc's registered trade mark.

I see no grey-zones whatsoever here...

[takemehomegrandma]

I think it's interesting to see the reaction in some forums that this has caused. Wow!

But I have a difficult time understanding the upset (to say the least) feelings. I mean, this does in no way have anything to do with Hyperion, A-EON or anyone else some people holds so dear. Those parties can go on with their plans just as before. Nothing has changed. This doesn't concern them, their license to use the trade mark in the way the deal with Amiga Inc stipulates are still there AFAIK.

What it seems to do, is shaking some people up a bit. I'm talking of the people who always resented to crap like "but it's not the real!", the people who never looked at the actual products, but only the trade mark slapped on it.

Now, when something just as "real" is about to be released (because the Commodore Amiga's will be *exactly* as "real thing" as A-EON's stuff, no difference whatsoever), those people has to rethink their stance!

Maybe they will realize that brands aren't that important after all? Maybe they start to consider and compare the actual merits of various products instead?

It looks like this eye-opener is painful to some, but opening your eyes is often a good thing.

Kind of difficult to see otherwise!

[ssolie]

@mongo
You know.....dragging in family members is NOT cool.

Be prepared for even worse as they now systematically pick you and your private life apart. It is even more fun when they mock any deaths in your family (see moobunny). Anything you say or do will now be recorded and thrown back in your face at every opportunity as well. And don't be surprised if somebody tries to sabotage any business dealings you had in mind.

Enjoy your new trademark license.

P.S. I wish I was kidding but history tends to repeat itself.

[Argo]

Has anyone confirmed if any legal paperwork has been filed?

[hooligan]

(see moobunny)

That site is still alive... and someone is actually reading it?

[Iggy]

Has anyone confirmed if any legal paperwork has been filed?

It's already been confirmed that Commodore USA, LLC is a legitimate Florida corporation. Confirming the Commodore B.V. and Amiga Inc. argeement may take a little longer.

But while would anyone question that part of the operation? The question is, is it are they really going to sell the product and when will they be ready to move forward?

[tone007]

The question is, is it are they really going to sell the product and when will they be ready to move forward?

Selling the product is the easy part, since it already exists! Anyone on this forum could buy and resell an already existing computer after adding a sticker to it.

The only product in question is the custom C64 breadbin shaped machine, which would require new cases to be manufactured.

[the_leander]

It is even more fun when they mock any deaths in your family (see moobunny).

That was a lie when you said it on AW.net and it's a lie now.

Whilst moobunny regulars didn't break down with crocodile tears regarding the death of mcbill's niece? We stopped far short of mockery.

@Hooligan

Yes, we're still there.

[redrumloa]

It's already been confirmed that Commodore USA, LLC is a legitimate Florida corporation. Confirming the Commodore B.V. and Amiga Inc. argeement may take a little longer.
 
But while would anyone question that part of the operation? The question is, is it are they really going to sell the product and when will they be ready to move forward?

I probably wouldn't buy a product I thought was greymarket or counterfit. Oh and it is an LLC, not corporation ;-)