Amiga PCs on the way....

[the_leander]

That wasn't really a counter argument.

Since Amiga.org has been here for years (w/o challenge), there's no real threat.

Just a point.

Clearly you didn't bother reading the response directed at you.

Your (and his) "point" is utter bunkum.

Even ignoring for the moment that Amiga.inc have stated in the past that there is no issue with AO,  Trademarks do not work that way.

[redrumloa]

Even ignoring for the moment that Amiga.inc have stated in the past that there is no issue with AO,  Trademarks do not work that way.

AO predates all Amiga companies except Commodore, as in the REAL original commodore. Commodore gave official approval to AO.

[actung_bab]

And it is local to me, I know the area well. I am contemplating taking a picture of Commodore USA, LLC's world's headquarters so the world may know.
__________________
http://www.commodorebounty.com

Commodore 128 Tower project blog!



maybe you see osma bin larden there hiding under a rock with mr bill running a lemanade stand with amiga logo cups

[runequester]

So I guess we went from

Commodore USA's CTO Leo Nigro announced today that their new Amiga branded computers will be fully AROS compatible, and that they will be supporting the AROS open source community in every way possible.

to
 

Commodore USA was not set up as charity to support the development of AROS. It holds less than nothing of interest or importance to me, or 99.999999% of our intended market. It is a product that I or any other company could not use at all, as it has NO commercial value now, as is. So why are you all so concerned??

So how does Barry define "support in every way possible" ?
 
Or does his dishonesty extend from copyright infringement to lying in press releases and to potential customers ?

[the_leander]

So how does Barry define "support in every way possible" ?

Why, as with every shady businessman - that which directly supports Barry is good, anything that can only be defined vaguely as indirect support or simply not, is bad and is rejected out of hand.

Or does his dishonesty extend from copyright infringement to lying in press releases and to potential customers ?

As if you even have to ask

[fishy_fiz]

Here's what I got in response to the concerns we've voiced. Some of it's a little harsh, but then so have some of our comments here.

"Here's a blast you can relay to the forum members, please quote exactly:
Commodore USA was not set up as  charity to support the development of AROS. It holds less than nothing of interest or importance to me, or 99.999999% of our intended market. It is a product that I or any other company could not use at all, as it has NO commercial value now, as is. So why are you all so concerned??  
Our support was to help the group move ahead, and be part of a niche hobby group that seemed initially to be  fun. I was wrong. Although some members expressed calm, sane, accurate and positive and open viewpoints, far too many exhibit behavior that is truly reprehensible. What is most amazing is the behavior and comments of the 'Moderators"   UNREAL!! Aros is not a commercial product; it is not even close to a beta functional OS that has any use at this point in it's development. Why some of you oppose the ONLY viable source of support is beyond me. Never has AROS received any promotion or publicity  that comes remotely close to that that was gotten since my intended involvement. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Why some of you find every facet of my life of interest is really sad. Don't you have lives to live?

I'll address some comments in particular. This is business, not nursery school. You know how much was spent and paid for the Commodore and Amiga IP over the last 15 years. Do your homework…we are talking close to 100 million dollars cumulative over all these years and by all the corporate entities that played the game. Price of entry is steep, and so is execution.  Iggy has  tons of more info that for some reason he chose not to share with you all.  

As far as using abandoned artwork, no problem here. Marko Hirv cannot be reached. Period. I tried. No luck. And yes, I did email the company he is at now….again no reply. Find him…I'll deal with him, or anyone else that falls into that category. Ever hear of an Iphone, boys and girls? Guess what…Jobs used it, took it, made it his own…knowing all the time it was the IP of Cisco. Ever hear of iTV, another recent product of the Apple guys. Also, no ownership…take it …use it…and then buy it if you must. Lawyers make a ton and the company gets what it wants, and the IP holder is paid. All good, no? That's just a small example of how business is. I am not saying it is right, just giving you a lesson in reality.

Oh…..ONE MORE THING !!!! All you self righteous self appointed moral compasses out there with the huge mouths and not much else. JUST WHO LICENSED AMIGA.ORG THE AMIGA TRADEMARK PROPERTY APPEARING ON YOUR BANNER MASTHEAD???   NO ONE!!
Any comments on that flagrant violation of trademark law? I'll be most interested in a reply to that one. Very interested.

So, enjoy your little clubhouse, I wish you well, and am sorry my leap into your little pond caused such an uproar. I never knew such muddy pond could even exist.

Barry"

OK, like I said a bit harsh, but apparently heartfelt. Comments?

Depends on what exactly he is that he's responding to. How diplomatically were the questions asked ? Were they asked in an accusatory manner, or politely? Much of the behavior a lot of "amiga" people showed would provoke a similar response from many people. The man has been personally insulted and his character torn at quite agressively since all this deal came to light. Sure, he may not be perfect, but who is ? What has he done that effects anyone here personally to a point that this insane behavior is even considered, let alone carried out ? Personally I'm more inclined to give people a chance than automatically dub them the anti christ.

[runequester]

Depends on what exactly he is that he's responding to. How diplomatically were the questions asked ? Were they asked in an accusatory manner, or politely? Much of the behavior a lot of "amiga" people showed would provoke a similar response from many people. The man has been personally insulted and his character torn at quite agressively since all this deal came to light. Sure, he may not be perfect, but who is ? What has he done that effects anyone here personally to a point that this insane behavior is even considered, let alone carried out ? Personally I'm more inclined to give people a chance than automatically dub them the anti christ.

I guess Im not stumbling over myself to send money to a guy who has a cavalier attitude to other peoples property, makes grandiose announcements... and now admits he was lying about it.

[fishy_fiz]

Sure, Im not saying Im in any rush to purchase anything that may come from this whole thing, but the manner in which people have expressed thier worries and/or disapprovement over what has transpired I find a little baffling. Everyone has a breaking point, even if theyve gone about things wrongly themselves, especially when all that has happened is bad, mostly inconsequential business practice. My response was mostly based around the quote though, I was simply saying I find it hard to draw conclusions from one side of a random response someone on a forum posted, and even if it was real/harsh/excessive/whatever, depending on the other side (what is this a response too even?) I can understand a breaking point influencing such a response.
At the end of the day though I dont really care too much so far, and I'll just wait until there's any signs that it'll influence my "amiga" hobby in the slightest before I start crying foul. The whole thing though seems one of the biggest, vocal, and bizarre over reactions I've seen in my lengthy time as an amiga fan.

[Hammer]

So I guess we went from

 
to
 

 
So how does Barry define "support in every way possible" ?
 

Barry is just stating the real world situation.

[Piru]

As far as using abandoned artwork, no problem here.

 Marko Hirv cannot be reached. Period. I tried. No luck. And yes, I did email the company he is at now….again no reply.

Everyone and their grandpa knows that at this point you do NOT have permission to use the artwork. This is how copyright works, it doesn't expire or get abandoned even the author cannot be reached.

This guy doesn't give a beep and just abuses the stuff as he sees fit.

This speaks volumes about the guy.

I would seriously suggest anyone to stay well clear of the guy and especially any of his enterprises.

[kolla]

I would seriously suggest anyone to stay well clear of the guy and especially any of his enterprises.

And Apple, who practice the same all the time, as pointed out in the rant - well, not exactly the same, but what the heck...

[KThunder]

Everyone and their grandpa knows that at this point you do NOT have permission to use the artwork. This is how copyright works, it doesn't expire or get abandoned even the author cannot be reached.

This guy doesn't give a beep and just abuses the stuff as he sees fit.

This speaks volumes about the guy.

I would seriously suggest anyone to stay well clear of the guy and especially any of his enterprises.

I would suggest people go ahead and buy and support whatever they feel like. If this guy gets in trouble, so what. You'll be out tech support, but if you really wanted that you'd have gone with a dell or hp or whatever instead of a startup.

[KThunder]

I won't buy any commodore pc of course, since I build and mod all my own pc's and cases. I'm just saying, I don't agree with Michael Dell on everything I'm sure, but I own several dell computers. I think that Steve Jobs is a fantastic businissman but a questionable person (Drugs all cleared out there buddy?) but I wouldn't let that stop me from buying a mac.

This isn't a religion. We don't need to know the quality of the person selling whatever to buy their product. And we don't need to be police officers or copyright wranglers to buy a cool looking, or not, computer.

[redrumloa]

This isn't a religion. We don't need to know the quality of the person selling whatever to buy their product.

Right, this isn't a religion. So why would someone pay a premium for a Cybernet Zero footprint PC with a brand label slapped on it?
 
OTOH there is a tint shop around the corner from where I live which is run by a guy being charged with murder. I seriously doubt I will be buying their product or service. Sometimes character does play into it.

[vidarh]

Everyone and their grandpa knows that at this point you do NOT have permission to use the artwork. This is how copyright works, it doesn't expire or get abandoned even the author cannot be reached.

That is how it legally is. That doesn't mean that we all agree that is how it should be. Nor has it been like that for very long.

Copyright as it became inshrined in law in the US and most of Europe at least, was intended to provide a time limited incentive in order to encourage innovation and creation. Once it does not serve that purpose, it may still legally be wrong to reuse a work, but morally there is no longer any need for the work to be protected and there's little reason to be concerned about it.

It may not have been a very classy move, nor legal, but on the other hand I completely fail to get even slightly annoyed that someone took an image that has been floating around for years, that has minimal commercial value for the original artist, and put it on their site after allegedly trying to contact him and failing to get a response.

He's taking a legal risk, and that is all on him.

I'm even conflicted about the removal/restoration of the artists name. On one hand it seems disrespectful. On the other hand, is it better to leave the name on if the artist may possibly object to being associated with a commercial venture?

In many countries, such as Norway since that's the case I know best, copyrights and creators rights are separate. That is, you can give/sell/rent copyrights, but creators right *always* remains with the creator of a work, and they include both the absolute right to get credit for your work if you wish, but also the right to have your name taken *off* a work that you feel have been altered or used in such a way that it does not reflect you.

Arguably, in some cases, if you are prepared to take the risk of using a work you have not secured rights t - whether or not that is justified - it may be morally the right thing to do to consider whether or not to remove the name of the creator of the work as long as you don't know the wishes of the creator of the work.

As for restoring it - since the community has in this case plastered the name all over the place, that pretty much removed any reason to keep the name off the image.

Frankly, unless Marko Hirv shows up and raises hell over the abuse of the image, I don't see the point of caring about this.

[vidarh]

Right, this isn't a religion. So why would someone pay a premium for a Cybernet Zero footprint PC with a brand label slapped on it?

People pay extra to get labels they like on a product all the time. Why would computers be any different?