I don't get it.

[DAX]

Think Hatfields and McCoys.
 
 This is nothing and I mean NOTHING like the past. It is also a tiny fraction of what the "kommunity" was in the past. Most people understand at this point it is just a hobby. Only the most dellusional think one of these OSes will go mainstream.

And I'm certainly not one of them, to me all we can get is a small niche.

Anyway, i understand that asking for this feud to end completely is unrealistic, there will always be uncontrollable individuals, but the rest of us can avoid jumping in enforcing this guys, how old are we anyway?

If in the future AOS gets a full Mesa port and new 3D drivers, i won't come here saying "look MOSSERS, shove that 64MB vram c*ap up your a*se now". I will just be happy and will also do anything in my power to shut any red troll that would do something like that (I certainly hope there won't be any, we are old for crying out loud).

The MOS community is a good one, and the Aos one is also a good one in 2010 no matter what happened back then.

We can at least improve things ten folds IMHO.

[dammy]

sadly I will have to repeat myself here as this the usual classic lovers mantra:

Your idea of custom HW is still pretty much connected to 1980's, where 2D raster  graphics game consoles (one, Lorraine, was turned into a computer) were all the rage, however we are in 2010

Then why is A-EON trying to pass this off as the new A1000?   Oh wait, it's like it, but not like it, but it's all the same, right?  A1000 had innovation with WB 1.x and OCS that had a reasonable bang:buck ratio.  A1X1K has a SoC with a dual core the OS can't fully access, a useless IO setup with a eye watering price tag.  This sure ain't the A1000 that I remember.

and if you need to decide how the computer for your OS will look like today (ie:what happens in the real world) you will have a team of  engineers sits around a table (either real or virtual) to decide what  will be best based on what  technology is "possible".

Actually the first step is to do a market survey to see what areas that are possible to exploit at a given price range.  Once a market is clearly defined then consult with the design engineers to begin forming a business plan.   Putting together a product at whatever price and hope that a market share will magically open for you is not what will work in the real world.

[DAX]

Then why is A-EON trying to pass this off as the new A1000?   Oh wait, it's like it, but not like it, but it's all the same, right?  A1000 had innovation with WB 1.x and OCS that had a reasonable bang:buck ratio.  A1X1K has a SoC with a dual core the OS can't fully access, a useless IO setup with a eye watering price tag.  This sure ain't the A1000 that I remember.

Times have changed. The A1000 was expensive and sold to a few, no software really took advantage of its power, that didn't stop it to be the start of something good.
The X1000 can be a start too but in a "sense" that takes in consideration where Amiga was going as a desktop computer (and not as a game console).
Technology wise Amiga500 should have received the Ranger chipset when it came out, with AGA on the market around 1989/1990 and AAA in 1991/92.
They were late all the time, missed the boat, and if it wasn't for RTG and AHI 16-Bit sound cards, the chipsets would have never prompted Amiga as a professional media authoring station (even J.Miner lamented about this in a famous interview).  

The rest is hystory Amiga evolved into a professional workstation sporting OS3, RTG and accelerator cards.

Finally GPUs took over the world.

It's inevitable for X1000 to be an extension of that direction, certainly not the extension of console like 2D raster graphics HW.

Actually the first step is to do a market survey to see what areas that are possible to exploit at a given price range.  Once a market is clearly defined then consult with the design engineers to begin forming a business plan.   Putting together a product at whatever price and hope that a market share will magically open for you is not what will work in the real world.

X1000 as many know is not aimed at mainstream, but to AmigaOS NG users. it would be great if they will do a cheaper machine in the future aimed at ex-amigans "in a more general sense" but this is not it, at the moment. I certainly hope they do something down the line when the OS will be more mature.

[Jambalah]

Passions. Everything goes thru passions.
I won't get a X-1000. Not 'cos I'm a MorphOS user, no. I cannot due to my financial state =)
But maybe I wouldn't even if I could. Maybe... Who can speak about what is unknown?
Amiga had/has a significant meaning for me. Having.
And so it is for alot of people, as I see. Nice!
It's hard to believe that something could go at an end. So for something that is going to start.
There is so much hard work beyond an operating system that you can't not to feel admiration for those people working on.
I would try AROS and I guess (sure) I will do when.. I will buy a pc XD!! I bought a laptop 3 years ago (this is my first serious impact with a pc) and I'm so terrified
using this enigmatic piece of hardware.. I always think one day I will press "Shutdown" and peessee will answer to me "Shutup, idiot! I will when I would!!" XD
The immediateness and intuition (gosh!) of an Amiga system are genetically transmitted to my brain and I feel difficult erase 'em.
Remember how I felt when I was treated like a Amiga-sucker in 1996-2000 or prehistoric and so on...
Explaining? Why waste words for who doesn't want to understand?!?
Recently I bought a C64 ALDI and an Amiga 500 (payed 30 euros!!) 'cos sometime I become (I am) a crazy collector-user.
I'm modding an A500 (on wich I'm running AmigaOS 3.9 and on wich I will fit a Cybervision 64 3D) and playng Forbidden Forrest on a real C64.
But I've bought a Powermac MDD too, waiting to be able to run MorphOS on. I want try AmigaOS 4 on my Pegasos and I will. Why? No answers when no questions to answer:
if I could answer to such a question, I wouldn't stay here writing those things but in another forum calling trolls everyone.
I can't answer to a question I have in my mind. Will the X-1000 be a success?
I really don't know...
I like to imagine that this machine is a symbol or a sign of something that could be real one day. The machine and the operating system.
Though I guess it wouldn't, since past hardly come back, I will have no fears, no jealousys, nothing. A lot of Amiga Insiders (sorry but to me Amigans is a therm a little bit indigestible, a marking..) are using Mac OS or Windows 7 and none of them has changed the way the feel Amiga. So I will do. Using one system or another.
I like to imagine (and in same cases this is real) much more cooperation and comprehension for each other, as I understend the anger for what should have been and wasn't. Now useless... Time goes by and lets everything beyond...
In any case, my great respect for ALL that people doing something for make me and all of us going on using and enjoying Operating Systems whom I can feel comfortable with.
Thanks!!!

[Akiko]

Then why is A-EON trying to pass this off as the new A1000?   Oh wait, it's like it, but not like it, but it's all the same, right?  A1000 had innovation with WB 1.x and OCS that had a reasonable bang:buck ratio.

I don't think anyone has made that claim including E-EON themselves, infact in the recent speech at Bletchley Park, Trevor made clear that it is not as groundbreaking as the original Amiga.

5.15 into video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZdsUU193oo&feature=related

[jorkany]

Steve was at VFC and had a terrific time with mikey_c and the other AOS4.1 team members, including Trevor Dickinson who gave him several vintage A1000 parts to complete his A1000 DEmo station.

We can do it!

Yeah...sure...
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5501&start=0#74400

Once again, I don't see AROS people bashing on MorphOS, MorphOS people bashing the 68K Amiga, or vice-versa of any combination. Bring OS4 into the mix though and you've got a split. The reason is, only OS4 claims to be Amiga - aside from the 68K camp of course, which really IS Amiga!

If OS4 was HypeOS4, you'd see a lot less friction between everyone. The irony in the post I linked above is, Hyperion's obsession with using "Amiga" in their product's name.

I realize Dax that you feel simply because you were away since the mid-90's and came back to find Hyperion and their partners using the Amiga name that they are the Amiga. If you somehow got lost for several years and returned to find strangers living in your house using your family name, would you just as readily accept them as your family? It seems so.

[ajlwalker]

I think it is worth noting that Trevor D did say somewhere that he was not averse to other OSes being written for the X1000.

Nothing to stop AROS or even MorphOS being ported to it.

Can the X1000 be purchased without AmigaOS?

[DAX]

Yeah...sure...
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5501&start=0#74400

Once again, I don't see AROS people bashing on MorphOS, MorphOS people bashing the 68K Amiga, or vice-versa of any combination. Bring OS4 into the mix though and you've got a split. The reason is, only OS4 claims to be Amiga - aside from the 68K camp of course, which really IS Amiga!

If OS4 was HypeOS4, you'd see a lot less friction between everyone. The irony in the post I linked above is, Hyperion's obsession with using "Amiga" in their product's name.

I realize Dax that you feel simply because you were away since the mid-90's and came back to find Hyperion and their partners using the Amiga name that they are the Amiga. If you somehow got lost for several years and returned to find strangers living in your house using your family name, would you just as readily accept them as your family? It seems so.

You must give Cesar what belong to cesar, and that is valid for all camps. Hyperion have some points on their part being that Amiga Inc. entitled them with what was to be their more standard development of the platform (being AmigaOne computers running AmigaOS4) .
We do also need to stop claiming that the direct continuation of OS3  development (whose source code utilization is Hyperion exclusive) AmigaOS4, has  nothing to do with the old AmigaOS as I heard many times, as it is just, well, a delusion.

That said, do not confound that use of "Amiga" to mark their NG developments (they have their legal rights to do so) with some red guy dismissing MOS (or Aros) as not being Amiga when provoked (or because he is a troll).
Mos and Aros are as Amiga as anything else, and I do agree this statement should be defended, by Red people too.
They have their history and they deserve maximum legitimation as real Amiga solutions.

[DAX]

I think it is worth noting that Trevor D did say somewhere that he was not averse to other OSes being written for the X1000.

Nothing to stop AROS or even MorphOS being ported to it.

Can the X1000 be purchased without AmigaOS?

Not initially, but I would truly love to see MOS on it and would surely buy it (I am considering a MOS PowerBook if they do things right, in any case).

[ajlwalker]

@jorkany

I think this is a bad analogy.

If I came back and found my family's children living in my house, then yes, I would consider them family.

As far as I understand, and I may be wrong, but OS4 includes or has at least been derived from prior AmigaOS source codes.

In my book it therefore makes it an Amiga OS.

[dammy]

@jorkany

I think this is a bad analogy.

If I came back and found my family's children living in my house, then yes, I would consider them family.

As far as I understand, and I may be wrong, but OS4 includes or has at least been derived from prior AmigaOS source codes.

In my book it therefore makes it an Amiga OS.

IIRC, from the paperwork filed during the law suit with AI, didn't Hyperion say they didn't use it (68K machine code)?

[DAX]

IIRC, from the paperwork filed during the law suit with AI, didn't Hyperion say they didn't use it (68K machine code)?

Amiga Inc, threatened them to use their OS3 property, in the end they settled by giving Hyperion exclusive rights to it. One of their represetatives when asked the question after the settlement responded that yes, AOS4 was built from OS3.1 source code (they have rights now, and can speak freely).

[klx300r]

what I still don't get is why oh why all questions specifically about OS4 have to be bombarded by MOS fans:angry:  I respect AROS very much and especially ClusterUK (Steve) in both the way he promotes AROS but also never degrades OS4 or MOS for that matter.

I'm an OS4 (& classic) user and I'm also looking forward to try out AROS soon..I have no interest in MOS but that does not mean I go over to the MOS forumns and trash it at every single possible opportuniy....geez

[the_leander]

Amiga Inc, threatened them to use their OS3 property, in the end they settled by giving Hyperion exclusive rights to it. One of their represetatives when asked the question after the settlement responded that yes, AOS4 was built from OS3.1 source code (they have rights now, and can speak freely).

You may want to sit and think about this: They state in a court of law, under oath that OS4 is a clean re-write, that it contains no OS3.1 code whatsoever. Then the moment they "win", state publicly that in fact it does contain the code they previously denied.

You do understand that that is perjury, right?

--edit--

Oh wait, this was DAX saying this. Nevermind.

[amiga92570]

This, I can appreciate. When I said "it's going to be expensive", it wasn't a defence of the price, just a statement of fact. I doubt that many people can justify 1500+ UKP for a hobby machine.

Remember, its not a hobby machine. They call it a developer machine. I guess they hope someone forks out the money and developes some terrific software to drive sales.

[amiga92570]

It reminds me of an argument I had when I was about 7 with another kid, about which was superior, the A500 or the C64, he was adamant that he was right, yet I argued with him so much until, I think a teacher took me aside, and kind of said "what's the point in this?  do you really think you're going to change his opinion?".  For people to so regularly troll on threads with comments like "it's not a real Amiga, they can't have that name" (are they expecting the second coming with clouds parting and an idealisation of Commodore speak unto them?), or "it'll be a load of crap anyway", etc., makes me think that they haven't learnt a simple lesson or two that I learnt with I was SEVEN YEARS OLD.

64 was Better! :griping: