Would you support a new Unified Opensource RTG standart?

[Trev]

I suspect that anyone that asks nicely and plays by the rules can get a copy of the P96 DDK. (EDIT: I suspect it because that's how I got a copy. It was several years ago, though.) I agree that a closed solution is not ideal, but nothing prevents an enterprising developer from designing a P96 shim driver that allows an open standard to be developed. If the open standard is adopted by enough developers, it provides the impetus to move all systems to the new standard.

[KThunder]

That's where all this started, if you had been paying attention.... the P96 SDK is not available, and the rightholders refuse to open it. The only way to write P96 drivers today, legally, is to through reverse engineering an existing driver.

I was paying attention, I was talking about programming for p96 not just drivers but other sofware. I toned my response back to one word because it doesn't really matter to me. I'm just sick of people starting threads like this. Come up with even a hobbled together beta and I'll eat my words. It's all well and good to come up with ideas but lets see them go somewhere.
We have had dozens of thread on great ideas that had tons of "support" that went nowhere.

[wawrzon]

@kthunder: ok, and where is the place to gather and discuss such an idea if not on a forum? maybe it will get nowhere, but why do you get upset just when people discuss it?

[Golem!dk]

Well... my vote was no since I really don't understand where this is coming from and why you think this deserves any support whatsoever. But do feel free to point me to any other similar project that actually amounted to anything. And by similar I mean anything involving the same amount of actual work by qualified developers.

[KThunder]

@kthunder: ok, and where is the place to gather and discuss such an idea if not on a forum? maybe it will get nowhere, but why do you get upset just when people discuss it?

Discussions do nothing! Rolling up your sleeves, digging into the os and rtg docs, programming graphics software, actually doing the work of setting up an opensource rtg standard will do something.

I'm much more impressed with someone who actually gets working, gets his homework done, then comes to us (his "support") for suggestions and help.

If he came to us with a website with all the docs, his programming ideas, maybe some outlines and at least some code with what he is talking about, that is a totally different situation.

[Gulliver]

This thread and its corresponding poll are meant to gauge interest in a new Unified open source RTG standart that attempts to support both earlier Piccasso96 and Cybergaphx RTG systems.

So perhaps you got the thread topic wrong.

[wawrzon]

@kthunder:so people who just want to brainstorm about if some idea is worth considering at all and what the way to take shall hide from you in the corner? concurrent projects have to be started by single visionary programmers. no right to coorinate effort is granted? its redicolous. there is a lot going on without that you probably are aware of anyway.

@gulliver: yeah, the title reads a little misleading, maybe you could adjust that.

[KThunder]

we have had dozens of threads posted "gauging interest" the question is how much is the author of said post is interested and able. I don't think Ive seen many that people weren't interested in.
Can you program? Do you have any of the materials necissary to do this? Or are you just thinking "boy wouldn't that be great"
Sorry, these threads really annoy me. We have people interested, we have people desparate to give real cash monies for this stuff, but that doesn't get stuff done. Real work does.

[KThunder]

@kthunder:so people who just want to brainstorm about if some idea is worth considering at all and what the way to take shall hide from you in the corner? concurrent projects have to be started by single visionary programmers. no right to coorinate effort is granted? its redicolous. there is a lot going on without that you probably are aware of anyway.

@gulliver: yeah, the title reads a little misleading, maybe you could adjust that.

Noone has to hide from me. But pie in the sky dreams with no support from the dreamer are vapor pure and simple.  Noone was aware of what Dennis Van Weeren was doing and he made what amounts to an amiga clone.

[Gulliver]

@wawrzon
So please tell me which one is better, and I will correct it.

[wawrzon]

once again, i think this thread is for what i see just to discuss if such a thing was needed at all. there are individual projects in this direction. however i think anything this scale isnt realistic to achieve all alone.

as for me even i actually cannot program im contributing in a way im able to a few projects, i dont need to justify myself though.

@gulliver: maybe just replace "will" by "would" otherwise it suggests something is already in the works.

[KThunder]

I know of people who have worked on drivers by themselves. Ahi was created almost entirely by Martin Blom. Thats a complete audio standard and several drivers by one guy.

[Gulliver]

I am sorry, for some reason I am unable to edit it. If Karlos or another mod is reading, please can you do it?

[KThunder]

Are there enough video projects out there to justify an open source standard incorperating both of the old? or would effort put into other areas make more sense? For example a opensource setup that can coexist with the old.

[Gulliver]

@KThunder

I am sorry, I wasnt ignoring you. It seems to me you are a little bitter towards the Amiga, I really dont know, and dont want to dig into it. But then in the end it is your call, you are free to think and express yourself.
You want to know what my abilities are, that is fine with me:
1. I can drink 3 liters of beer in less than 2 minutes
2. I can use a Mac
3. I can play Diablo II for an entire night

No, seriously speaking, what does it matter what can I or cant I do? If you feel better with an answer, choose the one that suits you most, to make the point you want to make. I am sorry I dont get it. I am just trying to gauge interest, nothing else.

PS: By the way, the three things I can do are truth.

[matthey]

@KThunder
I understand your frustration with all things Amiga as we all experience it. That doesn't mean that we have all been lazy and there has been no progress. You need to look around. Gulliver has put together a pretty nice unoficial Boing Bag compilation already. That's not nothing. He is testing 3 libraries I have enhanced. I'm also working on the Warp3D.library in a group effort (Allan Thellier, Bernd AFA, wawa, kas1e, etc) to give better 3D support for the Amiga including a new version of Mesa. I updated a disassembler (ADis) and debugged it to the point that it works quite well when my biggest C program before ADis was a hello world. I helped debug 68k Vasm (Frank Wille) for VBCC at the same time as a disassembler and assembler together can pinpoint errors. I would like to do a version of exec.library next and include some nice patches like my CopyMem, TLSFmem and bug fixes and speed ups. It takes time though. I will probably wait and see where Cosmos goes with his graphics.library but I could probably edit the P96 and/or CGFX libraries to not patch the graphics.library if it didn't need to anymore because it had high color support built in. Cosmos has a lot more time than me though. My day job is busier now than before the slow down while Cosmos doesn't have a day job. I am trying to help the Natami team as well. The question is what are you doing to help the Amiga? I wouldn't ask but you are complaining about people that are involved and doing what they can. That doesn't help.