The natami looks very close to completion.

[trekiej]

Cool.
I would be happy with a Mini-Mig Core for now.

[haywirepc]

I wish them the best, and I really hope this gets finished and sold, but the project has changed many times as far as expected release dates, even what it is or will be has changed many times along the way. I stopped checking in after a year I guess.
 
I really hope they finish it but unfortunately in amiga land, many things just dissapear after years of hype and talk.
 
They seem pretty determined though, so I'm hoping for the best. I'd love to slap one of their boards into a modern case...
 
Steven

[AAACHIPSET]

a real amiga upgrade ..a real amiga ..my opinion but ..isnt the chipset the amiga ?? isnt that one major difference between a pc an amiga ?
how is the x1000 as powerful as it may be an amiga ..any more than a sun machine would an amiga if it was running workbench ..
its not about the power its about enjoying computer time ..when we use them all day ..as i do ..the amiga  feels  different .special ..go NATAMI ..wouldve loved to have seen a AAA chipset machine but super aga will do ..
at least until natami 2 comes along ..i wonder how long before someone realizes there is a market still there ..small now ..but .
my opinion ..

[Karlos]

I don't think an Amiga is defined in one dimension, be it the OS, custom hardware or any other single aspect. It is the combination of these and the overall experience that defines it, IMHO.

No disrespect intended to the NatAmi team, or Dennis but if the native chipset were the sole deciding factor in the definition, then the NatAmi and MiniMig are no more "real" than UAE is. The only tangible difference being that they are a hardware, rather than software realisations of the original.

If, on the other hand, you base the definition on the overall user experience, there is no doubt that the minimig (and presumably the natami) are every bit as real as anything as commodore released. However, since that is a subjective definition, you have to accept that the other amiga compatible systems out there are equally "real".

[ElPolloDiabl]

The better term is 'Amiga compatible.' Also PowerPC Amiga vs 68k Amiga. With custom chipset, Zorro or with PCI and so on.

[wawrzon]

@karlos: i have only two conditions i need to acknowledge an amiga as such on any machine you throw on me.
1) amigaos should not be hosted on any foreign os especially if it is an commercial closed source. i would accept an abstraction over a kernel used to provide hardware support such as amithlon if i dont have to deal with it as a user but i prefer 68k native hardware that doesnt introduce jit precompile lag each time i start a 68k application, which applies as well to os4 as to winuae.
2) the backwards compatibility should be assured as far as possible, custom chipset inclusive. i know even back in the day it wasnt well taken care of, but that time there was still an evolving market, whereas today we mostly have to rely on 10-20 years old legacy.

[Karlos]

@karlos: i have only two conditions i need to acknowledge an amiga as such on any machine you throw on me.
1) amigaos should not be hosted on any foreign os especially if it is an commercial closed source. i would accept an abstraction over a kernel used to provide hardware support such as amithlon if i dont have to deal with it as a user but i prefer 68k native hardware that doesnt introduce jit precompile lag each time i start a 68k application, which applies as well to os4 as to winuae.

Like it is even measurable on modern hardware. Physically reading the m68k code from disk takes longer than the translation.

What's more, hotspot based JIT tend to have no real lag since they interpret anything that isn't cpu-bound. Naturally, this is slower to execute than compiled code but that slowness is completely hidden by the fact the code isn't time critical to start with, else it would end up translated anyway.

2) the backwards compatibility should be assured as far as possible, custom chipset inclusive. i know even back in the day it wasnt well taken care of, but that time there was still an evolving market, whereas today we mostly have to rely on 10-20 years old legacy.

There comes a point when emulation is the easiest option for legacy support. If you are honest with yourself, we passed that point more than a few years ago. An emulation realised in VHDL or Verilog and implemented in generic FPGA hardware is every bit as much of an emulation as one written in software. Nobody is making chip masks.

[wawrzon]

i am honest with myself, and i draw my conclusions from my everyday experience with winuae (mostly on my slightly dated  lenovo t43p these days) and the real hardware (a4k desktop with mediator extention).

[Linde]

The problem I've noticed with WinUAE (though I haven't tried any hardware emulators yet -- intending to get the Replay)  is that there is an input (or maybe it's really output) delay that doesn't quite seem to cut it. From pressing a button or moving the mouse to the change actually showing on screen takes some time (longer than on real hardware). Some of the immediacy on the real hardware is lost, especially in games that use the mouse.

Software emulation is also a huge waste of energy.

[jagoche]

I wonder how much sense it makes to look for a "definition" of Amiga.

To various users it obviously means different things and one cannot say who of them is more right. In this sense I would say there are many Amigas, with Natami being one of them and UAE another.

I would like to see though that different approaches to Amiga can make some benefit from each other.

[Linde]

I wonder how much sense it makes to look for a "definition" of Amiga.

I very much agree with this. It seems to me like most users are sold on the brand itself. What is and isn't an Amiga is irrelevant in terms of whether the hardware or software is useful or fun, or if it is able to provide you with a personal "Amiga experience."

[KThunder]

I switched from silicon to software amiga's years ago and have not regretted it in the slightest. I can turn my system on and run any piece of software from os1.0 ocs to 3.9 aga or rtg and anything in between smoothly and with little effort. If my system dies I don't have to search desparately for some rediculously overpriced replacement. For the same price as a Picasso IV I can get a pretty decent 3d card.
 
    The whole "russian roulette" I played when I pressed the power button is over. Someone else can worry about if the next time they turn the physical amiga on is the last. I think a Natami would probably be worse. You have one producer, with limited runs, on specialized hardware. Try to replace or repair that.

     I do have some amiga hardware still, but it doesn't work and that doesn't really matter to me. I have some amiga discs still but they are probably dead too. They are all backed up on cds.

     Minimig, Natami and others are cool little projects, but if you think they can do better than Aros and UAE on a netbook, laptop or desktop monster, then I have a bridge for sale in NY you might be interested in

[Crom00]

You know if you place a tool booth on the bridge you have for sale in NYC it could be a money maker!

[Piru]

The whole "russian roulette" I played when I pressed the power button is over. Someone else can worry about if the next time they turn the physical amiga on is the last. I think a Natami would probably be worse. You have one producer, with limited runs, on specialized hardware. Try to replace or repair that.

You have a great point here, which I'd like to expand.

In my opinion it works for all limited run hardware. Hardware becomes available. You might have a running system now, and perhaps even warranty repairs for 2 years, if you're lucky. But since the HW was only ever produced in very limited numbers (say < 5000 units), it will soon become very very hard to get repairs or spare parts. Dealers would like to help you, but are unable to since there just are no spare parts or qualified repair shops available. With new tehnologies (surface mounted components, higher bus speeds etc) it becomes harder and harder to repair things.

This is the very reason I believe X1000 project is doomed to fail even before the HW is out.

What about the alternatives? There are no magic solutions here. Either you migrate to the common tehnologies used today (read: amd64, ARM etc), or try to find some large existing hardware base to take advantage of. If the technology is clearly winding down (like it is the case with PowerPC), the 2nd option will only carry you so far. So eventually, you'll have to migrate or die off completely.

What we're doing with MorphOS currently is taking the 2nd option. We're making MorphOS available for ever wider range of Apple PowerPC hardware. These PPC Macs are available in vast quantities from various auction sites. Prices are relatively moderate (compared to new custom HW at least). You can still find spare parts and qualified repairs for these machines, and what best: if your hardware fails completely, it is relatively easy to find a replacement.

Obviously this won't last forever, but I firmly believe this is the only sensible course of action for now.

[Karlos]

Obviously this won't last forever, but I firmly believe this is the only sensible course of action for now.

Off topic, but do you have any ideas about where you'd like to see it go long term? MorphOS x64 perchance?

[kolla]

You can still find spare parts and qualified repairs for these machines, and what best: if your hardware fails completely, it is relatively easy to find a replacement.

But god forbid you find some hardware you'd rather run MorphOS on than what you already have.